[LP] Leader Pass Pack 3: Rulers of China (Jan. 2023) - Patch Notes Discussion

[Eagle Pursuit]

I haven't played him yet but I wonder if Yongle could be a one city challenge civ.

Probably not, because it benefits from having some cities actually building things while others run projects. At least until you get the governor promo for buying districts with Gold.

But I do wonder if it could somehow benefit from a limited expansion strategy by keeping the price of techs and civics from inflating with the number of cities. Kind of like the Civ V paradigm.

 

[nzcamel]

Qin's new ability is interesting, a good early game war booster. Also a good way to deal with those pesky late game barbarians that spawn near neighborhoods.

I suspect late game won't be so great as you won't want to trade a highly promoted unit for unpromted ones. Certainly it'll be very situational.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

The ability to build Spies is *always* unlocked.

As in, they are never implicity *unlocked* by the Tech or Civic tree,

but unlocking a Slot for them is. This is also possible via the Spy building in the Government Plaza.

 

[AntSou]

The ability to build Spies is *always* unlocked.

As in, they are never implicity *unlocked* by the Tech or Civic tree,

but unlocking a Slot for them is. This is also possible via the Spy building in the Government Plaza.

Interesting. What about traders? I had always assumed the unit was locked behind the Foreign Trade civic. But is it just attached to trader capacity?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Interesting. What about traders? I had always assumed the unit was locked behind the Foreign Trade civic. But is it just attached to trader capacity?

Traders *are* unlocked at Foreign Trade, so you need to have that tech before you can build more.

So if you lose your free one as Poundmaker, you have to wait until you get Foreign Trade to build more.

I think they did this because Spies are more likely to get killed (as Catherine) after getting Castles, so that it's not disadvantegous (Since they come online mid-game, as opposed to Traders, who come on early in the game).

 

[Guandao]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up already. But Beowulf has the Convert Barbarians option when I'm playing as Qin (Unifier). I didn't use it though because I was afraid it would make Beowulf disappear.

 

[AntSou]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up already. But Beowulf has the Convert Barbarians option when I'm playing as Qin (Unifier). I didn't use it though because I was afraid it would make Beowulf disappear.

That's pretty good. You can sacrifice him once you're nearing the end of his lifespan. It will be the same with the other melee heroes I assume.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I used Faith project to get the first pantheon (free settler), then I typically used one city to run faith for Monumentality while the others were building units or districts/buildings. I only started pumping food when my cities started closing in on 10 pop.

Faith project is great for a religious victory as you don't need a Holy Site to run it ....

 

[UWHabs]

Yes, I also found Yongle's abilities more fun than superb. You used his projects more than I did, though. I used Faith and Food in the early game to grab an early pantheon and build up my capital, but then it was the late game before I started using the Faith and Food projects intermittently between wonders and districts.

I don't think I used the faith project after the initial pantheon rush, and never used the gold project. I found with the food project, basically once I saw one of my cities was sort of in a "good shape" to rush to 10 pop, then I would run the food project. Basically if they got to like 7 pop, had 11 or 12 housing space available to them, then I would do the food project. On a decent city, they would grow every 3-4 turns I think. Basically spending 10 turns to rush a city from size 7 to size 10. And with Audience Chamber, it actually wasn't hard to get the housing - base housing + granary + AC bonus and you have unlimited space to grow. It's definitely one of the few games where my cities hardly ever ran out of district space (even had a Bi Sheng sitting around that I never used).

Now, obviously, a lot of my game got lucky, between terrain, nearby opponents, etc... I also had Hong Kong right next to me (other than a few turns where villainous Catherine captured it and I had to turn my attention to liberating it ASAP). I'm sure if their bonus was applied nicely to these projects, that could have made it even easier for me in my game. Also I did restart a few times until I had a "nice" capital, had a relatively easy Temple of Artemis build so that my capital got to size 10 fairly quickly.

But overall, I'd say they're certainly a very strong civ. Whether they're as "broken" as other civs when you play them to their best, I really have no idea. It was a really early win for me due to monopolies and the overall start. At least the fact that it takes a little effort for the abilities to kick in means it's not an auto-win - you can very easily lose the game before you hit 10 pop in any city. But I'd say it's definitely on the stronger end of abilities.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The ability to build Spies is *always* unlocked.

As in, they are never implicity *unlocked* by the Tech or Civic tree,

but unlocking a Slot for them is. This is also possible via the Spy building in the Government Plaza.

Yes, usually the first spy is able to be constructed once you unlock the slot at Diplomatic Service, unless you get them earlier by other means like the Intelligence Agency.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Good news for Yongle fans -- the latest hotfix just took out the part about him rewriting history if you speak ill of him, even though, well, rewriting history was apparently a thing he did.
I would *love* to know the history behind this particular hotfix ...

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Good news for Yongle fans -- the latest hotfix just took out the part about him rewriting history if you speak ill of him, even though, well, rewriting history was apparently a thing he did.
I would *love* to know the history behind this particular hotfix ...

View attachment 651855

And rewriting history is what current China loves to do as well-See cultural revolution. Heck even now they are busy claim some part of Korean history as their own.

Moderator Action: Please let us keep current events and/or politics out of the game threads. leif

 

[Deadly Dog]

Yongle is fun, don't know about OP. Watched a bit of the Potato McWhiskey livestream after the fact and my thought was that his start was OP. With rainforest and hills aplenty and 4 high production camps it was a ToA/Goddess of the Hunt no-brainer I've always dreamed of getting with Poundmaker.

My own start was pretty good, mostly coast/floodplains but one deer and 3 plantations meant also rushing for ToA. Went for Pingala, was almost able to reach size 10 in Ancient era, meaning science and culture kept up with deity AI. Didn't build a district or a settler until classical. Stopped expanding at 4 cities. Been competitive in science throughout with just 2 campus districts.

Nice bits: no slotting of God King, just grab pantheon either right off the bat or in my own sweet time. Size 10 cities can plop down districts pretty fast. Like Mali cities are building wonders/projects and I just buy buildings and units. Easy to keep neighbours happy as I'm not going wide next to them but tall off in the corner.

Felt a bit like I was playing Civ5. Will definitely play him again.

 

[Kotofei]

There's some really good synergy with Wu Zetian and Owls of Minerva.

Tried it....kinda sorta not really, unless you're having a rough game and are still behind by the Atomic Era. Wu makes her money in the mid-game.

 

[Kotofei]

I had a very different experience with her. I got my first spy around turn 30 and at the mid point of the game I had 3-4 master spies bringing me back eurekas, science and culture every four turns.

It definitely takes some set up (and honestly a little luck on that first spy succeeding the missions, definitely go for gather sources), but it can be satisfying. It’s nowhere near as potent as Yongle though but tbh he makes the game feel somewhat pointless to play because his ability is so overwhelmingly strong once you hit mid game. Very dull

This was my experience as well. Could've sworn I was getting 2 techs for each "steal tech" mission. I thought it was a bug.

 

[xphantomx]

@AntSou Well... if the newest changes would not help then I'd probably revert them in my mod But some testing is needed to see how AI behaves now.

I wanna say thanks for your work as well!

As someone starting a new game, is your AI fix now redundant since they incorporated it into the base game? Should I disable it? Don’t want it conflicting or anything.

 

[Kotofei]

Yep, Yongle is broken. Got my fastest science victory ever in a Deity "lol let's just build stuff and see where this goes" game.

 

[Horizons]

Has there been a change where you can't surprise war a declared friend or has it always been that way?

 

[Niallism]

Has there been a change where you can't surprise war a declared friend or has it always been that way?

Always. That's the main point of being friends.

 

[Horizons]

Faith project is great for a religious victory as you don't need a Holy Site to run it ....

Oh really? That doesn't sound right.