Discussion in 'News Updates' started by Thunderfall, Jun 16, 2007.
Does anyone know where on the net I, living in the US, could buy this? Would it even be legal?
That's ok -- I understood the concept. I just think that compromise is not always a bad thing. CivIV being partially censored is not going to alter the course of Chinese history; selling CivIV in China (even at a premium) could alter the fortunes of Firaxis [or whatever the heck company now gets the money]. They are in the business of -- well business, not cultural change.
As for the Statue -- I WANT ONE
The changes are absurd......
btw, does chinese govt accept confucianism?
i heard the chinese government burned down all confucianist shrines and confucianist books during the Cultural Revolution because confucianism has some values that are not compatible with communism. (for example, confucianism accepts class distiction)
one more thing i am really curious is.. why would they make china unplayable?
doesn't make sense to me.
They did! But that was over 50 years ago, and they have as of yet to annihilate Confucionism, just as they've failed to annihilate either Buhddism, Christianity, or Taoism within their Borders. Confucianism is the one out of all of them, that is most historically linked to the Chinese State... As for any favoratism by the Chinese government today. I haven't the foggiest. I just know that the Communist government's wrath toward the Confucian religion was pretty well one-sided. They burnt their temples down essentially becasue they hated all religions equally.
In fact, Confucionism is not a religion or a religion like Buhddism, Christianity or Taoism.
Confucionism is mainly rooted in officals and scholars. The the culture revolution began, none of them could protect or save it as the scholars were also annihilated.
Civ4: Chinese Edition
Now with more censorship
Man Hunt 2 is censored in Britain, you don't seen to be so outraged about that, now do you?
I am outraged about every episode of censorship, in Italy (my land), in Britain, in China or everywhere.. I don't know "Man hunt 2"; i didn't know that it was censored..
i like the t-shirt (Chinese word better) and the statue (with can shot arrow better)
to Moon Pine:
please list the civics, techs, leader name and some cyclopedia info of the CIV IV Chinese version, because i can make my Test IV Time a extra Chinese version.
may be i will call it: Test IV Time (C) - The Revolution Empire
$18? I might pay $18 for that T-shirt by itself..
Move with me to china, Join my milita, "Great People's Alliance for a Democratic Capitalistic Asia", and we will make the deal even better! We will keep that as well as reduce the crime rate! (former criminals will be running the country, special forces made up of outlaws-just kidding).
Democracy in China!
Free Asia from Commie Chains!
They built temples, have philosophies concerning spirits, deliberately encouraged certain numerical superstitions, and practice ancestor worship... The philosophies of statesmen such as Confucious are core teachings, but the level of ritual and sacrament is too intricate to be definitavely considered not to be a religion... Not to mention that the meritocracy was ambivalent between democracy and communism, which meant that a communist state would still have to compete with democratic ideas if those who had knowledge of just whot those ideas were continued to exist. Whether a religion or not, the fact that there was a legitimate question as to whether or not it was, was enough for Mao Tse Tung and his followers to be willing to lump them in.
With the scholars being killed whether Confucianism is a religion or not is a moot point. However the scholars were not completely annihilated. Many simply went into the woodworks and integrated into the existing society. Afterall, the philosophies continue to exist today, and whether it's a religion or just a social pholosophy, people were able to reestablish it after the old Mao died of old age. Which means quite clearly that not only were the "scholars" not annihilated entirely, but that they were able to defend their faith... Well enough, anyway, for the game designers to see fit to try to cash in on the fact that many members of the population are Confucian. Confucianism is obviously more popular than the Three Gorges Dam at the moment. lol.
just my two cents,
1. confucianism has religious aspects, but all the 'religious' rituals are based on rational philosophical reasonings. Sure, you could say that Christianity has its share of theological elements as well, but the difference is that for Christianity 'God' is held to be true based on 'faith', whereas in confucianism 'the order of nature' is deduced from observations/analysis of life & nature as they are. Of course, it is very arguable whether you could call it 'scientific', but I think this difference is worth noting for anyone interested in this issue. (i'm sitting on the fence between how to classify confucianism, whether as a religion or as a 'philosophy', but I have to say that religious elements of confucianism is similar to anything Plato or Socrates endorsed. You think about that and make your own judgement, but if you ever study some of thoese ancient chinese philosophers, you'd know how advanced they were in terms of their philosophical reasoning - what Lao Tsu already said a couple thousand years ago already covered what Wittgenstein proposed in 20th century Europe, regarding the nature of 'language' in philosophising)
2. my guess about why china was made unplayable in china is that because the gov. want to maintain that 'however the country has been run, it has been for the best'. They probably don't want people to 'play' china in the game, run it under different system than it is now, and think to themselves 'hey why not?'.
3. I know there are much that can be said about human right issues in china, but there are things I never see addressed from the people who criticise these issues are the followings
a) do you think 'democracy' as you know it from Western Europe & North America will 'just work' with 10 billion people who all need to be fed & made productive?
b) do you think complete free market system (at this stage anyway) is going to give Chinese government as strong backbone as they have already now? What, with all the American and European companies freely taking over & owining major industry leaders within Chinese territory? Protectionism is a MUST if you are playing catch up in capitalist world.
c) what about the slaves, explotative labour and imperialisam which certainly DID exist at some developmental stage of capitalism & industrialisation in 'western' world? To me it sounds like 'okay we used whatever method we can to get to where we are now, but you guys will have to play nicely to catch up with us'
I have absolutely no intention of endorsing some of the crazy things chinese gov. has done for long time regarding human right issues - everyone is right to criticise them for it.
But I also think people should get real.
PS: going back to topic, regarding the censorship, I haven't seen it, but if I try to be objective and suppose that I'm the one making decision for Chinese gov. I would do the EXACTLY the same thing (at least at this stage).
You'd be a fool not to. Political ideology & 'governing your country to compete with other world leaders' are two different things.
Just think of your own civ. game, do you seriously expect China (or any other country for that matter) to be those 'stupid' AI that signs open border agreement with you and change to your fav. civic and listen to your ways to get along & make everyone happy while you are enjoying your pole position? don't you suspect that they'd rather want to build up the army, get into stronger position than you economically, and laugh at your face when you make demands? (and aren't you the one who just love whipping slaves to get your units out asap in the game? why would you do that? 'cause it's effective duh)
im Chinese, and the thread made me lol ^_^
in Chinese Civ4 fans' opinion on the "legitimately" version:
1) it has already . .. .. .. .ed by my government censors. but it won't affect anyone who(Chinese fans) playing Civ4. because only few amounts in China would play Civ4. there are so many games for Chinese gamers to select, and Civ4 is boring and hard to enjoying for the most. you know, Chinese more like mmorpg games, not turn based games!
2) $18 for a time past game(2005) with a "T-. .. .. .. ." is really cheap? RMB 139 Yuan----average incomes have to work for 2 days to earn it! as to the "T-. .. .. .. .", only cost RMB 5-20 Yuan. 139 = 11 kg pork, you really think Civ4 mor important than 11 kg pork? ok, the compare is not suitable, we can't compare pork and Civ4. i just want to say, RMB 139 Yuan is not Cheap but expensive.
3) when i run the Chinese Version, it made my OS crashed for several times. i hate it. i had to change some files, it's really depressed.Civ4 encourage players to MOD. you know, long before the China Version selled in China, "China version" MOD has come out. the translation of the mod was translated by many players who play civ4, and the translation was just censored by the players, nothing to do with government censor. you know what i mean. btw, to mod a China Verison is really a hard work. English use single byte but Chinese need two bytes, we really cost much time to settle down the trouble.
4)though i bought a legitimately China version, but i reinstalled the pirate. the pirate get no problem and with no sick translation(I like the word "China" but "Jiu Ding Guo" sucks).btw, the "T-. .. .. .. ." is not suitable for me, it's little and tight (only one size#, after all, . .. .. .. . is . .. .. .. .).
5) all just games, don't be so curious.
China... ... ... ...
What you have written are not just two cents, but some interesting points of view
I don't know if Confucianism is a religion or a philosophy, but i have inclined to think it's a religion, because if it is "only" a philosophical doctrine (like Platonism), some 'confucian philosophers/followers' would believe in some other faiths (i.e.: Christianism) or be atheist, and i never heard something like this. But maybe i go astray..
I think 'democracy' works with billions of people: think about India.
I agree with you when you say that a nation can be legitimated to protect itself from the (American and European) economical imperialism, but the fact is: what kind of economy is giving TODAY a strong backbone to China? Chinese politics seems to me not protectionist (a lot of western industries have factories in China, because the labour is cheaper), economically imperialist (overall in Africa) and (ok, i know, in a strange way) open to free market and capitalism, even if they say they are communist; China is also a member of WTO.. I don't say this is good or not for China; i say it's a fact and Protectionism is not the reason [EDIT]and not a justification[/EDIT] of the Totalitarianism of that government.
I agree again; but the past is gone; now we can hope other peoples don't repeat our past errors.. slavery, imperialism and pollution are NOT the only ways, the only methods to build a strong economy, a strong nation.
Good points here! I really hate when I hear G8 countries start accusing China for pollution and demand it to cut pollution rates. G8 countries polluted 100 years before China started any real industrialization, and today G8 countries are rich enough to start protecting environment, that isn't case with China. Not to mention that China has 4 time more population than United States, so they are expected to pollute four times as much. G8 counties are also hypocrites: they transfer their own dirty industry to China because of cheap labor and no environment protection laws- and demand them to cut pollution.
And to add- In my opinion democracy is only way to get any large society (China is one billion and 300 million pop.) to work for longer time. Centralized, authoritarian governments are only effective in smaller societies, in large society dissent will eventually get too big and country will face a revolution.
For shame, Firaxis. Hang your heads, you're going to have too much difficulty looking at any respectable human in the face anyway.
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