christ, dinner, and a jewish girl

[Pellaken]

when I went to youth parliament in november, I had a long discussion with 4 other people about religion. there was me, a roman catholic, an agnosticic dude, a wiccan girl, and a nice jewish girl (who was pretty nice lookin ) we talked for hours

the next day, after it was over, me, and the 2 girls were sitting togethor for the dinner-banquet. the representive who had put it alltogethor got up to the podium, and started saying grace...
I was like "ok... you said god, but I guess thats ok..." but then he ended with "and his son, our saviour, jesus christ"
...
well
I was not happy tell you me! I looked at the 2 girls at the exact moment they looked at me... we were not pleased

none of us belived in jesus, well I mean he probably existed, but I just dont happen to belive he was the son of god. a nice guy perhaps, more any more...

I wanted to know what you think about this. was he right to say that infront of people with varied religious belifs? should we have gotten the change to say grace in our religions should we have choose to?

 

[CornMaster]

Yeah....I am upset when I have to partake in religious events of all kind.

Being non-religious, I feel it's all rather silly.

But, we must show tolarence....I have to remind myself that not everyone is as enlightened as me.

 

[Pellaken]

actually, I belive in god... well...

I belive in a force that exists in all that is god. we can manupalite it sometimes, and it helps determine random actions.

so I'm not an atheist... I belive that anyone who has faith of any kind will be saved.

I also belive you can make deals with god "if you ____, god, I'll ___"

 

[amadeus]

How can you be a catholic if you don't believe in Jesus (the Jesus, that is, described in the Christian Bible.)

 

[Apollo]

Originally posted by Pellaken
I had a long discussion with 4 other people about religion. there was me, a roman catholic, an agnosticic dude, a wiccan girl, and a nice jewish girl (who was pretty nice lookin ) we talked for hours

Originally posted by rmsharpe
How can you be a catholic if you don't believe in Jesus (the Jesus, that is, described in the Christian Bible.)

In Pellaken's post it says 4 other people. Those four people included the Roman Catholic, which Pellaken is not.

As to the thread topic: just because this guy was saying grace doesn't mean he was saying it for you. Now you may have felt awkward having to listen to it, but when it was over you could have said or thought something for yourself that represented your religious beliefs. The representative probably assumed that most people were Christian and so he gave a Christian grace, because that would serve the majority and politicians ALWAYS think of what the majority wants and put that above any personal goals.

 

[cameramano]

I agree that the man saying grace should, considering the gathering, at least addressed it to the Lord. However, how could he have appeased everyone. Do Agnostics say grace?

Most appropriate, would have been a moment of silence to "say thanks." This could be thanks to God (of the prophets), God of the trinity, Allah, spirits, or the cooks. Each individual would have had the opportunity to pay respect that they felt comfortable with.

The exception to this is if the venue or sponsorship of the meeting belonged to the host. In which case, you are in his house, and he can say his blessing.

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by cameramano
Most appropriate, would have been a moment of silence to "say thanks." This could be thanks to God (of the prophets), God of the trinity, Allah, spirits, or the cooks. Each individual would have had the opportunity to pay respect that they felt comfortable with.

Sounds diplomatic enough.

Thankfully, I've never had to say a prayer in front of a multi-religious group. I haven't even had to say a prayer out loud at school. (I don't like praying outloud.)

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Well, the way I see it is this: It was the bloke who put it all together, and put up with a load of what could be politely termed "eclectic" teenage wannabe politicians running about biting his ankles. In such a situation, it is understandable that he'd want to thank God he survived.

When under someone's roof, or at their event, they have a certain degree of jurisdiction. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
When in Prince Edward Island, Canada, leave.

 

[Greadius]

In my opinion, sometimes you just have to acquiesce to the majority.
Bow your head slightly and look at your shoes
Now, if they want you to do anything more than show respect, raise heck about it.

 

[damunzy]

I like the say thanks idea but I am sure it will not work anytime soon as most religious types have their rituals they have to go thru. He was the one that put together the banquet...but what was it for? That can make a difference. If it was for student government or something like that then I think that it was a bit rude of him to do that but if it was for christian youth day he was well within his rights....See the difference?

Kinda of like what CornMaster said....you have to give religious people some understanding.
BTW I believe in a higher power I am just not into the whole organized religion thing.

 

[Lt.Col. Kilgore]

I honestly wouldn't care. And I think absolute belief in a god is childish and I absolutely despise religious orginization. I'm as agnostic as they come.

The only problem I would have about people talking about they're superstitions is if I had a kid and they tried to sell it to him/her. I would never allow my son or daughter to go through the crap I went through (being raised Roman Catholic).

 

[Ouchgeddon]

Where I live you get three or four seperate religions per housing block. Of these you got various denominations as well, e.g. Catholic, Methodist. You even may have some animists around. With so many different beliefs about you just have to go with the flow...

If it were me in a position like Pellaken was in, I wouldn't take offense or even mind much (except for any dark rituals, I ain't hanging round for that). Five times a day, there is a call to prayer for Muslims issued from every mosque over loudspeakers so the neighbourhood is alerted. One of these is about 5 am. It's a Muslim majority in my country, though not in all areas. So understand as much as your mood allows you to, turn over, go back to sleep. Repeat.

But I guess in parliment of all places one should be politically correct.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by PaleHorse76
He was the one that put together the banquet...but what was it for? That can make a difference. If it was for student government or something like that then I think that it was a bit rude of him to do that but if it was for christian youth day he was well within his rights....See the difference?

I think that's it. If it is a "neutral" event (meaning one not affiliated with a religion) people shouldn't force their beliefs on others. Sure it does no real harm, but some may be annoyed and that is not necessary. What would for example Christians think if a Satanist would call on his 'master' before dinner?

As well as religion has to be seperated from the state (in a free country) it has to be seperated from non-religious events. Everybody is free to say grace for himself before dinner.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by Pellaken

I also belive you can make deals with god "if you ____, god, I'll ___"

I sometimes think that too. But of course that was when I was religious.

Hey if you see somebody doing that, don't mind. I just think in my head that they are just mellodramatic people

 

[Sixchan]

I also belive you can make deals with god "if you ____, god, I'll ___"

Hold on. If you make deal with the divine, YOU'D be the one putting terms to IT? In a conversation with an all powerful being that created the universe, YOU would do the talking?

 

[Pellaken]

an agnostic guys belives "thres something up there... but I am just a human, so I know now what"
an atheist belives "F*** you, you F**** god! you dont even F****** exist! ya hear me! F*** you and all you religious folks!"
that may seem a little extreme, but most atheists seem to have that same 'in your face' attidude

also, I was raised as a catholic... but then I saw the light.

if I lived in a muslim majority country I wouldent really care, as its part of the religion to do that. perhaps I should have said something at the time, but I dident want to... I think I would have been able to anyways.

it just saddens me sometimes... Jesus said he was the son of god, Jesus said that you cant ask him to prove it, you must belive

I'm the son of god, you must belive in me.

do you now think I'm the son of god? I dont see whats so special about this jesus feller.

sorry of that offends you, but its how I feel.
HOWEVER
I also feel that ALL faith is rewarded. weather you go to mosque and pray to allah, or to church and pray to Jesus, or to Temple, and Pray to Buddah. its all faith, and all faith is good. so long as you desire to live a life which is full of kindness and good, then I belive that you will go to heaven when you die... but you can come back if you want to be reincarnated... and if you are bad!... you go to heaven... but, only for a very short time *like a nano-second* before you are reincarnated as a bug or worm or somesort.

 

[Sixchan]

An atheist wouldn't say 'F*** you, god', since it would be much the same to him as saying 'F*** you, invisible pink unicorn'. To an atheist (speaking from personal experience here, Pel) God doesn't exist, so there is no purpose to swearing at it. You sound like the broken records that go to atheist chatrooms and say 'you're not atheist, you're just angry at god!'

And I find such a generalisation very offensive, in fact. What about Secular Humanists? They're a mixture of atheists and agnostics, and they believe in peace and goodwill to all things, so would they go around saying 'F*** you' to all religious types.

You seem to be religious, Pel, so have you ever experienced atheism from the inside? I could make a generalization that all christians go around saying 'F*** you Allah, f*** you Krishna, f*** all you non-christians.' I have experienced many people with those views, but I'm sure other christians would not like me to believe that all of them are like that.

EDIT: BTW, an agnostic is not a person who believes there's something up there but doesn't know what, s/he's a person who believes there MIGHT be something up there, but since it can't be proved, then there's no point in him/her being religious.

 

[Hitro]

Originally posted by Sixchan
An atheist wouldn't say 'F*** you, god', since it would be much the same to him as saying 'F*** you, invisible pink unicorn'. To an atheist (speaking from personal experience here, Pel) God doesn't exist, so there is no purpose to swearing at it. You sound like the broken records that go to atheist chatrooms and say 'you're not atheist, you're just angry at god!'

And I find such a generalisation very offensive, in fact. What about Secular Humanists? They're a mixture of atheists and agnostics, and they believe in peace and goodwill to all things, so would they go around saying 'F*** you' to all religious types.

I can only agree with that. Many religious people simply don't get that Atheism is not just some other religion.

Btw, what's the point of an Atheist chatroom?
Do you discuss how much you not believe in anything spiritual or how often you did not go to church today?

 

[Vrylakas]

It's probably a good thing I wasn't there, or I'd have said something equally inappropriate, like the Dave Foley quote from the KITH:

I serve only you, master - aaaaaaannnnnnddd Satan!

 

[Pellaken]

Originally posted by Lt.Col. Kilgore
I honestly wouldn't care. And I think absolute belief in a god is childish and I absolutely despise religious orginization. I'm as agnostic as they come.

The only problem I would have about people talking about they're superstitions is if I had a kid and they tried to sell it to him/her. I would never allow my son or daughter to go through the crap I went through (being raised Roman Catholic). [/B]

when I quoted atheists of saying F***this and F***that, this is more what I ment. they cant seem to say "I dont belive in god" it must be "I dont belive in god, unlike you stupid"