Chronicles of Mankind

[maksyutar]

There is a definite problem in late antiquity. Well, for example, the world just discovered catapults or an empire as a system, and we already have the Viking Age - the 9th century AD! Well, here's another thing - we are discovering the Roman catapults and the empire, we have, roughly speaking, the first centuries of our era - the times of the Roman Empire. So, very soon you can already research feudalism, if you look at the technology tables, there is a minimal difference between them. That is, a very large period of 4 centuries is literally covered by 4-6 technologies. And what to do with this, it is unclear, you need to somehow "force" the civilizations that studied the technologies of the late Roman Empire not to immediately investigate the technologies of the times of Charlemagne, which will be available only after a couple of hundred years. Moreover, new technologies cannot be invented, because historically, during this dark time, no new technologies were invented ... Any ideas on this? Can make the introductory technologies of feudalism very expensive?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

There is a definite problem in late antiquity. Well, for example, the world just discovered catapults or an empire as a system, and we already have the Viking Age - the 9th century AD! Well, here's another thing - we are discovering the Roman catapults and the empire, we have, roughly speaking, the first centuries of our era - the times of the Roman Empire. So, very soon you can already research feudalism, if you look at the technology tables, there is a minimal difference between them. That is, a very large period of 4 centuries is literally covered by 4-6 technologies. And what to do with this, it is unclear, you need to somehow "force" the civilizations that studied the technologies of the late Roman Empire not to immediately investigate the technologies of the times of Charlemagne, which will be available only after a couple of hundred years. Moreover, new technologies cannot be invented, because historically, during this dark time, no new technologies were invented ... Any ideas on this? Can make the introductory technologies of feudalism very expensive?

I have only plaid enough 2 games so far but I am not sure I agree. I don't necessarily disagree either. Basically would like to offer my perspective.

From what I plaid one tech is 10+ turns, and if you rush ahead it's easy to get into the mid 20's depending on your empire size and slider. So 4-6 techs, depending on the situation can be something like 40-120 turns. Now that is NOT super long. That's true. but it's also not very short either. Like, you can certainly get a war or something in that time. If only the AI wasn't so friendly. So like, I guess what I am saying is that we can't really judge things until the AI is fixed.


On a side note it is absolutely untrue that technology did not advance during this period. Even if we ignore the fact that Rome didn't fall, it just lost its western half and that there are other civilizations on this planet (Persia, China, India etc.) that continued to function beyond the fall of the Western Roman Empire. So technological development didn't just stop. The focus just shifted making western Europe a backwater compare to eastern centers of learning, much as it had in fact been for the millennia prior to the Roman conquest.

But even in the west all sorts of technologies continued to advance. It's just that the shift in social structures meant that you no longer saw massive public works and the like. But it's absolutely unfair to say that a 9th century sword and a roman era one were equal because technology just paused.

 

[maksyutar]

It is clear that after Charlemagne and beyond, technologies were stronger than Roman ones. But between the fall of rome and charlemagne, technology stagnated. The rest of civilizations at this time had a minimum of development, however, in the 19th century they remained in the era of the Middle Ages.
However, it is still unclear how to convey the cessation of science for hundreds of years.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

It is clear that after Charlemagne and beyond, technologies were stronger than Roman ones. But between the fall of rome and charlemagne, technology stagnated. The rest of civilizations at this time had a minimum of development, however, in the 19th century they remained in the era of the Middle Ages.
However, it is still unclear how to convey the cessation of science for hundreds of years.

I wholeheartedly disagree with that assessment of world history. And I have given enough explanation for that opinion in my last post that I do not feel any reason to add any more.

 

[maksyutar]

Even if we are only talking about such a vast region as Western Europe, we still do not know how to convey a dark era for it.
I would like to have such a mechanic, on a par with the golden age, but in the game this is not

 

[Inthegrave]

Exactly. Ergo documentation. We'll get to it when we get to it, just write it up in a FAQ somewhere is a tried and true design pattern for development.

Well COM is not my mod so it wouldn't be my decision, but he said he will be hiding the ruthless ai option anyways so there wouldn't be much point documenting it.

 

[<Nexus>]

Well COM is not my mod so it wouldn't be my decision, but he said he will be hiding the ruthless ai option anyways so there wouldn't be much point documenting it.

Vs.

Well, I can simply turn off and hide those two options for the time they are fixed...

I said "I can" not "I will". I wrote that as an option and wanted to see how others reacted to it. So it isn't decided.

 

[<Nexus>]

Even if we are only talking about such a vast region as Western Europe, we still do not know how to convey a dark era for it.

How about this: we don't
CoM is a general mod not a scenario mod. It covers 'the whole history roughly' and not 'a specific section precisely'.
There are many things we cannot and don't need to cover: China had printing machine and gunpowder two eras before Europe. The Greeks had the aeolipile, an early steam engine, that wasn't developed further, probably because there were no reason to do so since slavery was cheaper. History is full of anomalies.

If you want a Dark age than try revolutions. When a larger empire collapses, it goes through a kind of a dark ages.

 

[Inthegrave]

I said "I can" not "I will". I wrote that as an option and wanted to see how others reacted to it. So it isn't decided.

The way I read your post seemed to indicate you were going to hide it, I misunderstood but you have to understand why I could of read it the way I did. Regardless I don't really care if you can or will, it doesn't concern me.
Point is it's not my mod and it's not my job to document how ruthless ai doesn't work correctly, that's all I was trying to say.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Well COM is not my mod so it wouldn't be my decision, but he said he will be hiding the ruthless ai option anyways so there wouldn't be much point documenting it.

I was making a joke about the horrible state of our industry...

 

[Inthegrave]

I was making a joke about the horrible state of our industry...

Well... in that case I agree, haha.

 

[maksyutar]

Aggressive AI is really unlikely to bet correctly, AI, if it wants to keep up with the player, must invest in its development. And if he lags behind, excessive aggressiveness will only destroy him.

 

[<Nexus>]

WOW! I had the first MAF error only after 1603 turns.

Large world, normal speed.
The game was already running continuously in the background for 600 or 700 turns. So I say the mod is pretty stable.

About the AI:
With my recent tweaks wars are more common:

...though not always this common.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What's with all the aircraft crashes? Is air travel just inherently unsafe in your mod or is Nod up to its old tricks again?

Also, since your next update is going to presumably come with new AI for the leaders is there any chance you could include those extra leaders you modded in?

 

[maksyutar]

Does anyone know where the formula for calculating game points is stored? I think I can change something for myself

 

[<Nexus>]

What's with all the aircraft crashes? Is air travel just inherently unsafe in your mod or is Nod up to its old tricks again?

Just Nod

Also, since your next update is going to presumably come with new AI for the leaders is there any chance you could include those extra leaders you modded in?

... well, there is a chance for that but than I cannot upload the patch by tomorrow as I had planned.

 

[<Nexus>]

Does anyone know where the formula for calculating game points is stored? I think I can change something for myself

Good question. Better ask it in the Quick Modding Questions thread.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Just Nod


... well, there is a chance for that but than I cannot upload the patch by tomorrow as I had planned.

I wouldn't mind that all too much.

 

[Inthegrave]

About the AI:
With my recent tweaks wars are more common:

So I take it that the dogpile and limited war settings improved things a fair bit?

Also those are some cool leader choices, some I already included in my own game like Khosrau, but you gave me some neat leader ideas for my own game.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Its the cute leaderheads by Saibotlieh that drew my attention immediately. Like, ever since I first saw them I just have to have them in every mod I play.