City Graphics Request: Troy

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Alsom? Roman? Did I miss anything? There is not a single Roman city on that map that hadn't been there in Hellenic times!

Besides- the map is utterly without importance- the suspected site of mythical Troy is the only thing that one should take into consideration. As can be seen (and read in the Iliad) the location of mythical city is very different than the excavation nowadays having been named "Troy". My suspicion is that (since all great powers' capitals of the time had access to Waterways -already to erect stone structures) the capital city of Troy should have had a port. Homer even describes a trojan mechanism by which warships were pulled up a ramp into an inner port so as to protect them from naval assault (of course the Iliad was written at least 300 years after the myth allegedly took place- while no scripture was ever found in any of the combatants' remaining cities suggesting war with any such named power).

 

[ocedius]

Aslom? Now I have no idear' whats going on anymore!!!

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Aslom? Now I have no idead whats going on anymore!!!

Alsom- not 'Aslom'...

 

[ocedius]

Alsom- not 'Aslom'...

Thats whatz I gots for my publik educations

 

[Xen]

Alsom? Roman? Did I miss anything? There is not a single Roman city on that map that hadn't been there in Hellenic times!

Besides- the map is utterly without importance- the suspected site of mythical Troy is the only thing that one should take into consideration. As can be seen (and read in the Iliad) the location of mythical city is very different than the excavation nowadays having been named "Troy". My suspicion is that (since all great powers' capitals of the time had access to Waterways -already to erect stone structures) the capital city of Troy should have had a port. Homer even describes a trojan mechanism by which warships were pulled up a ramp into an inner port so as to protect them from naval assault (of course the Iliad was written at least 300 years after the myth allegedly took place- while no scripture was ever found in any of the combatants' remaining cities suggesting war with any such named power).

A)Neither Mycenae or "Sparta" (replaced the name of the region of lacedaemon with the name of the most prominant city in the greek dark ages/classical age) did not have direct access to a port.

B)the site of Troy is located according to where Homer puts it;

a)by the dardenelles, controllign access to the Black sea
b)inside a coastal plain BY the sea, but the city itself not actually on the sea (besides, no where int he illiad is anythign entioned about naval battles)
c)a site where the river meander (IIRC, that was the name) paees in between the camp of the collective greek host, ands the city of troy, creating the centerpeice battle feild of the conflict
d)the site of Illium, the name homer used for the city, and the surrounding area, and where the Illad actually gets its name from

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

A) Since you mention that Mycenae has no port or water way connection: Very true, archeologists haven't got a clue how on earth it was built and consider it an architectonic miracle !!! - and the fact it doesn't have a port marked the downfall of this Kingdom, unable to trade and keep up with city states the likes of Athenae. And not even Great Rome or Athens had their own ports- Pireos, for instance was a separate town that Athens would eventualy grow towards and enclose within its city defences by a purpose built wall). Been there, seen it, bought the t-shirt.

B) Blind Homer lived between 300 to 400 years after the city excavation site described as Troy VI - VII was destroyed. "Even if there was a Bronze Age city on the site now called Troy, and even if that city was destroyed by fire and/or war at about the same time as the time postulated for the Trojan War, there is still no evidence that any of the events described by Homer ever took place. In particular, the name Troy does not appear in any of the Greek written records (admittedly not extensive) from the many Mycenean or Bronze Age sites excavated over the past century. If there was a major city called Troy anywhere in the Aegean area, no-one at Knossos or Mycenae or Pylos mentioned it."

a) Right- so if that city is within spitting range from the sea, what would have stopped the Trojans from building a port? One can even see the sea from the top of mount Hissarlik!
b) I never spoke of ANY naval battle, just of the technique the Trojans used to anchor their warships. If you mean that if Troy would have had a port, thus a large fleet able to withstand a fleet of (allegedly) 1000 vessels, thus a sea battle would have taken place which the greek historians would have boasted about (as Greeks love to exagerate, *cough* a little, as we all know), and we would have thus had to read about it in Homer's Poems, and because they don't this means that Troy didn't have a port- then I must say these are too many assumptions in one go. I could equally assume that such an unbelievably vast fleet as the Greeks are said to have fielded would have caused the Trojan fleet to flee- but I'm not since there is no evidence about any of it.
c) There is btw a site in relative proximity to the present excavation site of Troy that could have featured an "inner water basin" about 3 thousand years ago- indications of a young state's trading site? However...
d) ...It doesn't surprise me that the place was named Ilium after (!) Homer wrote about it- the question should be what it was called before Homer did so. (Mentioning Homer naming the site- in Greek it would be Ilion: Ilium is as said the post-Roman Latin denomination)

"It is important to note that no text or artefact has ever been found which clearly identifies the bronze age site as that of Troy, or indeed confirms that any such place as Troy ever existed. Some archaeologists and historians maintain that none of the events in Homer are historical. Others accept that there may be a foundation of historical events in the Homeric stories, but say that in the absence of independent evidence it is not possible to separate fact from myth in the stories.
In recent years scholars have suggested that the Homeric stories represented a synthesis of many old Greek stories of various Bronze Age sieges and expeditions, fused together in the Greek memory during the "dark ages" which followed the fall of the Mycenean civilisation. In this view, no historical city of Troy existed anywhere: the name derives from a people called the Troies, who probably lived in central Greece. The identification of the hill at Hissarlik as Troy is, in this view, a late development, following the Greek colonisation of Asia Minor in the 8th century BCE."

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

You see, the point I am trying to get at is that nobody knows enough about Troy to establish if mythical Troy as such ever even existed, more less what the city would have looked like be it myth or real...

 

[ocedius]

Real or not, I am certain we can all agree that this mod meeds to get made

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Real or not, I am certain we can all agree that this mod meeds to get made

Certainly and Mycenae too

 

[the100thballoon]

what/who the hell is alsom?

great historical information that is very interesting and important but dont forget that i am still in need of a(some) city graphic(s). i like/need your info but i also NEED a city graphic. i am not trying to be rude but i must push this issue. im sorry and im not at the same time. please understand..... i need the graphic.

 

[ocedius]

Do you haev anymore Troy-like pictures? I think the current pic could make an excellent Trojan capital. It is large, beefy and walled. What else could we need?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

I wonder if any of you are aware that he mentioned that he was basing his scenario on mythology (such as Homer's "Illiad").

There seriously ought to be more city-styles produced here. I'd like to see a nice "Troy" city graphic as well.

 

[the100thballoon]

im still left with the (sorry to be rude and pushy but...) need for a city graphic. I will get some more pictures for you all. PLEASE MAKE ONE OR GIVE ME A TUTORIAL ON HOW TO! i hate being rude but i want this mod really bad because i love reading mythology! i cant wait for a decent mythology game!


Edit: I now have leaderheads....... YAY! .......all i need now are units and city graphics........ hint hint

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

If anything has to do with Ancient Rome or Greece, it draws in Xen like a moth to the flame...just like anything Mesoamerican does with me ironically.

 

[the100thballoon]

Here are some city images:

 

[the100thballoon]

Some wall, tower, and gate models:

 

[the100thballoon]

If anything has to do with Ancient Rome or Greece, it draws in Xen like a moth to the flame...just like anything Mesoamerican does with me ironically.

haha. good, good! Xen, would you like to be a part of this mod?

 

[ocedius]

How about this

Only smaller

 

[Amenhotep7]

Chances are, Troy is very close to the city Troas.

 

[ocedius]

Ok. First attempt at city graphix here. Tell me what you think?