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City spreads...
- Thread starter Shoobs
- Start date
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The 3rd tier building comes available with the tech that gives access if you select the option saying you don't want to use the building. Thus there should be no buildings allowing the 3rd tier early.
Seems like I was a bit unclear. This is basically the question of Many cities vs. A good number of cities ( regular civ4 city building ) or spreading your cities out to try to avoid the full cross having overlap once the large cross becomes available with administration.
I've noticed AI enjoys a combination of Many cities ( ICS, infinite city sprawl ) and Good number of cities.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I use every tile available and many times my cities will share a tile or 3. 
I like the old Rise of Mankind days were if you left a space of 4 or more tiles unused between your cities the AI would plop a city down on them as long as the 2 tile distance (back then) between cities was not violated. It too later become a 3 tile distance rule, which C2C uses. But the AI was very good back then at wedging in a city if you left too much space between yours.
JosEPh
I like the old Rise of Mankind days were if you left a space of 4 or more tiles unused between your cities the AI would plop a city down on them as long as the 2 tile distance (back then) between cities was not violated. It too later become a 3 tile distance rule, which C2C uses. But the AI was very good back then at wedging in a city if you left too much space between yours.
JosEPh
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Yup you can not place a city within 2 tiles of another in C2C. In other words city centers must be 3 tiles apart, for clarity here.
City 1 main tile , x tile ,x tile, city 2 main tile is the closest they can be.
JosEPh
City 1 main tile , x tile ,x tile, city 2 main tile is the closest they can be.
JosEPh
Even still, with the administration tech opening up the fatter cross, I'm still asking players if they try to set up to try to take advantage over that ( as I currently am, the AI I'm playing have nearly twice the number of cities. ) But I also have the comfort of having several continents in the WM, and I spawned with no AI. Even funnier.. I've only had two barb cities spawn and its already 1500 BC! On raging barbs even!
TrippedOnACloud
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Messages
- 294
I tend to plant my cities at distances where there's minimal to no overlap between their second rings, though with a very strong preference for coastal/river cities and locations that allow a "canal" through an isthmus by combining cities, forts, and lakes. That said, in C2C, city radius overlap is much less important than in vanilla. The way vicinity buildings work and the massive number of buildings that give flat 
or 
combine to reduce the importance of worked tiles, especially once you start getting into later eras.
Regarding minimum distances between cities, it's been years since I've even started a vanilla game, so I don't really remember the minimum distance rules there. C2C it appears to be a minimum of two unoccupied tiles between city centers. That is, CXXC, with C = city and X = noncity tile is the closest that you can settle. I think that's the same thing as what Joseph said.
or combine to reduce the importance of worked tiles, especially once you start getting into later eras.Regarding minimum distances between cities, it's been years since I've even started a vanilla game, so I don't really remember the minimum distance rules there. C2C it appears to be a minimum of two unoccupied tiles between city centers. That is, CXXC, with C = city and X = noncity tile is the closest that you can settle. I think that's the same thing as what Joseph said.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
The US MP game we're playing shows the clear difference between joseph's style and mine. I don't want my primary cities being inhibited by neighboring cities at all and strive to keep the full fat 3 cross available for each of my first cities. I may later plant filler cities that don't have any role in the empire except to maybe economically improve things a little if they can but certainly not to use much of the land around them, just the gaps left behind by spreading my primary cities out so they get the most use of land a city can get. (Land is still a bit stronger than specialists.) When I can actually USE the third rungs, those cities are going to be VERY powerful.
I admit there are strengths and weaknesses to this approach and to the opposite and neither is probably absolutely superior to the other. It depends then on how you play strategically - quality units over quantity of units or vice versa. I strongly believe in quality over quantity for most unit types though some are just as well to be good as a swarm approach.
I admit there are strengths and weaknesses to this approach and to the opposite and neither is probably absolutely superior to the other. It depends then on how you play strategically - quality units over quantity of units or vice versa. I strongly believe in quality over quantity for most unit types though some are just as well to be good as a swarm approach.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Depends entirely on the bonus placings and need.
What tech is that? It certainly seems to be before Social Contract - I once got the third tier before reaching Medieval.
Septentrion
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2015
- Messages
- 152
I never cared about the three tile radius when settling. For that late in the game, the tile yields matter much less.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I can see the thoughts on 'need'. Given my current game I'm spread out quite considerably ( pretty overall large sized map ( I think it was 200x180 atleast ) with many continents separated by 2 ocean tiles. ), I've focused on more late game styles, including using heavy amounts of traders to kick off city potential much sooner ( thus making every city count ). In a pangea game, I would probably employ either a 3 or 4 tile rule for myself instead of 5-7 tiles. As I would in normal Civ / mods. That said, I wanted to mess with the fat crosses when I saw it was a thing...
Septentrion
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2015
- Messages
- 152
Don't play team with the AI I played a team game once and my teammate went the distance to drop a city XOOX from my capitol to claim a resource in my borders. Only tangentially related. The AI's city placement is often quite bizarre.
Autorun in prehistorical will complete ignore(or seemingly avoid) resource placement for a XOOX second city.
Autorun in prehistorical will complete ignore(or seemingly avoid) resource placement for a XOOX second city.
No I don't try to settle with minimum overlap. It's coast, rivers and resources that determine where I settle, and even though I don't cram in cities everywhere I tend to prefer settling too close than too far apart. Especially if there are good terrain bonuses that opens up special buildings or natural wonders it's an advantage to have the same tile shared between more than one city. And slavery and herds in the early game, wonders and buildings in the mid game, and pollution management in the late game keeps it more worthwhile to work specialists than tiles.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
lol... all valid causes for disagreement. It's a lovely balance in benefits vs penalties between the two approaches isn't it?
I rarely get farther than renaissance, so settling in a manner that properly exploits the third ring is rarely a consideration for me. I do play with the game option that allows third ring through culture, but there are many, many turns in the early game before cities naturally grow to that size, so I tend to stick with designing around the normal 2-ring fat cross. If I plan only to exploit a resource from the third ring, I won't have access to that resource (or the special bonuses of that resource, e.g. vicinity buildings) for a long time.
So I favour the "what can I do now" approach. If I ever get a game to the point that I could work the third ring on settling (or at least not needing to grow culture through however many tiers), I'd adjust my strategy, but I doubt it would change all that much. It seems very likely to me that any game running that long - unless it was started in an advanced era - would long ago be completely settled (I generally play on small or standard sizes to help reduce turn times).
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On a slightly related note, I kind of wish cities could have access to river and coastal buildings if those features are in their fat cross, not necessarily for having settled directly adjacent to river or coast. It is sometimes possible to have these features within range of a city, but because of strategic considerations (for example, having to choose between settling against a river versus settling against the coast), they are not immediately adjacent to the city, preventing access to many buildings. But, I suppose, that's just How It Should Be: after all, not every city can be perfectly placed.
So I favour the "what can I do now" approach. If I ever get a game to the point that I could work the third ring on settling (or at least not needing to grow culture through however many tiers), I'd adjust my strategy, but I doubt it would change all that much. It seems very likely to me that any game running that long - unless it was started in an advanced era - would long ago be completely settled (I generally play on small or standard sizes to help reduce turn times).
.
On a slightly related note, I kind of wish cities could have access to river and coastal buildings if those features are in their fat cross, not necessarily for having settled directly adjacent to river or coast. It is sometimes possible to have these features within range of a city, but because of strategic considerations (for example, having to choose between settling against a river versus settling against the coast), they are not immediately adjacent to the city, preventing access to many buildings. But, I suppose, that's just How It Should Be: after all, not every city can be perfectly placed.
