City-state border growth

[beezany]

I was competing with a city-state for tiles, which got me wondering about the rules for city-state border growth. Based on some analysis of saved games, I suspect that city-states grow when they receive envoys. Specifically, their borders seem to grow:

• one tile per envoy
• but not for the initial meeting
• and not if somebody else has more envoys than you

For example, when you reach the 6 envoy level, the city-state will have 5 extra tiles. If somebody else competes with you for control, the city-state will not grow again until one of you adds a 7th envoy. I haven’t yet determined whether the border growth happens immediately when you add the envoy, or when the city-state has its next turn.

 

[Browd]

City states start with their center city tile plus 5 surrounding tiles. They get their 6th surrounding tile (completing ring 1 around the city center) when the first Civ meets them. (You will never see a 5 tile CS since the instant you meet them they get that 6th tile.). From that point forward, they acquire an additional tile with each envoy that takes them to a new maximum number of envoys (a new "high water mark"). So, if someone has 3 envoys with them, they will have completed ring 1 and have 2 tiles in ring 2. If someone else comes along and gets 2 envoys, but still trails the 3 envoy leader, the CS gets no additional tiles. But once either Civ gets a 4th envoy, the CS will get another tile.

 

[beezany]

Aha, that matches my findings exactly, except that I had not discovered the part where they start with 5 tiles. That is surprising!

 

[beezany]

I used the Map panel in Fire Tuner to show all civs without actually meeting them (Explore All). It showed all civs (minor and major) with 6 tiles around the city center. I then triggered a minor civ meeting, which granted the first envoy without changing the borders. It looks like the first envoy is a special case that does not trigger a border expansion.

 

[Victoria]

It looks like the first envoy is a special case that does not trigger a border expansion

I used the Map panel in Fire Tuner

Aaah you forget dear sir, that when you reveal all you are the first person to see each CS and so they all show with 6. One needs care with Firetuner. There is a log in the log directory that shows this 6th tile growth and also sometimes a CS is bugged and does not accept the first envoy, you see them with 5 in these cases. Odd I know but it's a extra tile for our use on occaision.

 

[beezany]

When you uncover the map with Reveal All, you do meet all of the city-states and get an envoy with them, but Explore All does not establish contact or award envoys. Is there a previous discussion I can refer to for details? Because it's possible that the rule has changed, or it's possible that I just don't know how to reproduce the behavior you're talking about. I wasn't able to track down any information beyond what's in this thread.

 

[Victoria]

I suspect its an explore all bug
Searching is a nightmare, there is so much info

Here is a key post on the subject of tiles owned, the whole thread is useful too. I tend to test what I say so 97.6% of the time is correct
A little look at how a CS works

 

[Victoria]

Hmmm it may have changed! I checked the l;ogs for the explore_all game and all CS own 7 tiles... I'll try a game without explore all
EDIT: Yes, it seems that they have changed it as the player_stats.csv is now showing 7 tiles for all civs before they have been mat... if I then reveal all or find one naturally the first tile growth does not occur.
Definately changed this in a patch as you can see from the original thread, it used to behave differently

 

[beezany]

Thanks for the link! That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for. You are getting that information from Player_Stats.csv, correct? I also saw that there is a relevant definition in Civilizations.xml, which looks like it has not changed in the latest patch:

<Row CivilizationLevelType="CIVILIZATION_LEVEL_CITY_STATE" CanFoundCities="false" CanAnnexTilesWithCulture="false" CanAnnexTilesWithGold="false" CanAnnexTilesWithReceivedInfluence="true" CanEarnGreatPeople="false" CanGiveInfluence="false" CanReceiveInfluence="true" CanBuildWonders="false" StartingTilesForCity="5" IgnoresUnitStrategicResourceRequirements="true"/>

So they did not change the city-state definition. Instead, they must have just changed the behavior on city founding to always give the full first ring of tiles, even if they have not all been earned by that rule.

 

[Victoria]

Player_Stats.csv, correct?

Yup, there are some very handy logs out there. The culture and tech logs show what each civ chooses each turn.
The main problem with the logs is they get overwritten each time you start civ. still they have good detail.

 

[adi4k]

7 years later, we're still playing civ 6
I have a question: considering that city-states don't grow their borders through culture, if I capture a city-state, is the "culture growth cost" affected by how many tiles it previously gained through envoys?