City state loyalty flips?

[funkymunky]

I've seen this happen a few times since I updated to GS expansion, and I was wondering if anyone else has also noticed this phenomena. I'll be courting a city state over the course of the game, adding an envoy or two every 10-20 turns as I can, eventually to suzerain a couple. I'll get to a point where I have 2 or 3 envoys more than the next leader, and then all of a sudden some turn I'll find that city state immediately flip suzerains and find that I'm now 3 envoys behind that competing leader. Sometimes this turns into the city state declaring war on me when the turn before they we my friend.

Would anyone know how this is possible? Is it a bug? Some obscure legitimate game mechanic that was added to GS? Or perhaps some new magical cheat added by the devs to give the AI the ability to compete?

I can't recall ever seeing this happen before I upgraded to GS, so I'm baffled by these events, but I can say I think I've seen it three times so far in the last two GS games I've played, so I feel I need to ask what could be going on.

 

[Aurelesk]

Since GS expansion, probably due to the inclusion of Hungary and its gameplay around city-state, the AI seems to seek suzerainety of "key" city-state and levy those units, even when none needed. I don't remember how many time I had those free Era for canceling the levying of others civilization when retaking suzerainety of a City-State the following turn I lost it.

I never seen an AI send a Spy to a City-State and trying to reduce rival Envoys. And the game is finished before an AI can event reach the Cold War civic and slot the Containment diplomatic policy card for extra envoy if the suzerain has different government, so I don't know if the AI is playing the suzerain game, and if it play that game well.

Hungary gain extra +2 Envoy when levying unit of city-state. Maybe that is how he manages to get 3 envoys more than you: spending the needed envoys to take the suzerainety and then levying for extra +2.

 

[Tabarnak]

Maybe they accumulate some envoys before using them(clever move) or get 4 gov picks for double envoys.

In fact, it's good news.

 

[Disgustipated]

AI definitely hoards envoys

 

[Phoenix1595]

Excluding Amani placement, which the AI loves to use with a passion, the AI does tend to withhold envoys for particular city-states. I have lost suzerainty several times, with an immediate successor on the same turn. It’s actually quite smart, because the AI banks on the possibility the player uses up their envoys upon receiving them, and therefor cannot counter a mass envoy attack.

 

[funkymunky]

This has been totally unexpected behavior from the AI, and I've never seen it strategize to this level, so I wasn't sure if this was some developer hack to help it. But if AI is hoarding envoys, then I think actually is pretty smart and I like that.

 

[Disgustipated]

I've been burned at least 4 times as Hungary by this. To the point I won't even try a city state leverage unless I get Amani's last promotion. Unless you are able to do it very early (before they've built up envoys), but usually I don't start near any city states as Hungary.

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

This is why I save my envoys until I get the 2 for 1st envoy card. That helps a bunch early on.
Add in papal primacy and for several, 1 becomes 3 right off the bat. Rather handy.

 

[Casualty of war]

It does make you pay attention to who has placed the second most Envoys with that City-State.

I have noticed some shenanigans though, with AI coming up with 7 Envoys out of nowhere in the Ancient Era without even using Amani. And, of course, Apadana malfunctioning until just recently. Makes me long for when you could just cut City-States a check for influence.

 

[Midgardsormr]

I never seen an AI send a Spy to a City-State and trying to reduce rival Envoys.

I've seen it happen at least once. I was very carefully watching my envoys in Granada at a crucial point of city development, so I noticed when my count suddenly dropped. Didn't actually see a notification about the spy's activity, but that's the only explanation except for a bug.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

This has been totally unexpected behavior from the AI, and I've never seen it strategize to this level, so I wasn't sure if this was some developer hack to help it. But if AI is hoarding envoys, then I think actually is pretty smart and I like that.

Maybe. Depends on whether the AI is giving up free yields by not dropping 1, 2 or 3 envoys in relevant city states to get their base bonuses.

Those bonuses can be more reliable and, in aggregate, more valuable than competing for suzerainty, especially suzerainty you could lose in a turn or two.

 

[Halcyan2]

I've seen this happen a few times since I updated to GS expansion, and I was wondering if anyone else has also noticed this phenomena. I'll be courting a city state over the course of the game, adding an envoy or two every 10-20 turns as I can, eventually to suzerain a couple. I'll get to a point where I have 2 or 3 envoys more than the next leader, and then all of a sudden some turn I'll find that city state immediately flip suzerains and find that I'm now 3 envoys behind that competing leader. Sometimes this turns into the city state declaring war on me when the turn before they we my friend.

Would anyone know how this is possible? Is it a bug? Some obscure legitimate game mechanic that was added to GS? Or perhaps some new magical cheat added by the devs to give the AI the ability to compete?

I can't recall ever seeing this happen before I upgraded to GS, so I'm baffled by these events, but I can say I think I've seen it three times so far in the last two GS games I've played, so I feel I need to ask what could be going on.

I would caution you to use more precise language.

Since loyalty is actually a game mechanic and cities do flip ownership, based on your thread title I originally thought this thread was about City States going extinct because they flipped after reaching 0 loyalty.

Maybe a better title would be whether the AI aggressively targets certain city states, or about sudden swings in envoy counts.