Civ 4 complete on steam for $10, one day only

[Senethro]

You guys are both making small mistakes of understanding due to English as a second language and oversimplifying the situation. Steam is always going to have some input on the prices and the publisher is always going to have the final say on their property and most of the power. This might be different in situations where its Steam and a 2 man indie developer who have limited alternatives but I don't know.

How about you ask Valve/Steam instead of me? I'm a guy on the internet and when you start asking for specific technical details or a mini-essay on the relative negotiating power in Steam-publisher partnerships, I'm not going to be able to give you a satisfying answer.

 

[The_Coyote]

The sale is at Steam so it makes more sense to say "the Steam sale" than "The 2K and THQ and Codemasters and 1C and and and 's sale at Steam".

Its just conversational English. No claim is being made about ownership or responsibility.

Yes i know that there is no claim implicated - and i accept that you knew this also. But i wasn´t sure if everybody has seen this non implication - therefore the longer non conversational English version.

 

[Aeon221]

Dudes, dudes, Valve doesn't want your CC info. They want to steal your soul!

 

[mjs0]

If you go to ebay - the lowest price there was ~23, if you buy them alone (civ4 complete + colonization) you can have them with shipping to a price around 20. So the entire package - if you wan´t all parts - has certainly not a bad price in this case. Perhaps one of the rare occasions, that of course exists.

Yeah, I have no particular axe to grind regarding Steam prices, I just like to make sure everyone has all the facts. My experience has been that there is always somewhere that is close to or beats the Steam regular price but that Steam sales are very hard to beat at any reputable retailer.
Personally, I only have a Steam acct because I got a free game with a gfx card 2 years ago, and have only made one purchase since then (Portal).

On the subject of Ebay...strangely enough I don't like Ebay for the reason many people on here don't like Steam. I refuse to use Ebay anymore.

• I have been ripped off several times (used goods instead of new, etc., etc.)
• I personally know someone who has had their Ebay seller account terminated for no good reason (= substantial loss of income, not just loss of use of few games)
• If your Ebay account is suspended you have to fax them a copy of your driver's license and a bank statement!
• Ebay's privacy policy is no better than that of Steam, for example whilst it has flowery phrases about protecting personal info it says absolutely nothing about aggregated info, so that is presumably fair game for anything, and like Steam they can change it at anytime, meaning your personal info is only 30 days from being freely available at any time.
• My favorite line from the Ebay privacy policy:

  ...although we work very hard to protect your privacy, we do not promise, and you should not expect, that your personal information or private communications will always remain private.

I consider using EBay a much higher risk than using Steam.

 

[The_Coyote]

I only used them as source - because it was quicker than looking for other distributors in the web - not because i see them as something good or i would recommend.

Nevertheless - like said - in this case the price is low, even at ebay and at amazon if you buy the same games (civ4 complete and col, but not necessary civ4:the complete edition) you have to pay +100%.

I consider using EBay a much higher risk than using Steam.

can´t be, but i don´t know and i also have no disire to create an ebay account.

 

[Chiyochan]

Oh noes, Steam, owned and operated by Valve with revenues and profits measured in the tens of millions, is going to rifle through your bank account to steal your tens of dollars. And they're going to get that info by practically giving away their product!

Best business plan ever.


For those of us existing in reality, I already snagged it the last time they ran this sort of promo. Such a good one.

Giving away their product?
what makes you think you own anything you buy there?
Violate their TOS once and your thousands you totaled up buying from them are forfeit.

 

[Aeon221]

Giving away their product?
what makes you think you own anything you buy there?
Violate their TOS once and your thousands you totaled up buying from them are forfeit.

I dunno about you, but I find it pretty easy to avoid accidentally illegally distributing software, accidentally hacking and botting in MP games, accidentally reverse engineering Steam or accidentally buying things with stolen credit cards.

Do you find yourself accidentally doing these sorts of things often enough to make purchasing stuff from Steam a risk? Because, if so, you might want to see a shrink -- I don't think it's normal to do that sort of stuff by accident, and I can't imagine why anyone would do any of it on purpose.

And since there aren't any other ways to lose access to your games, well, it's pretty much not an issue for me. Maybe for people who find themselves accidentally doing that stuff, but we already agree that they have a serious condition and should seek medical care.

 

[Commander Bello]

You guys are both making small mistakes of understanding due to English as a second language and oversimplifying the situation.

If you could just briefly explain in which way this relates to the rather easy question whether Steam makes the final price the customer has to pay or whether it is the publisher?

Just to help you, here is one of your statements:

Steam doesn't set prices, the publisher does.

That much for "oversimplifying the situation".

Steam is always going to have some input on the prices and the publisher is always going to have the final say on their property and most of the power.

Ahhh.... finally.

Steam - according to your words - seems to have some influence on the price the final customer has to pay.

How about you ask Valve/Steam instead of me? I'm a guy on the internet and when you start asking for specific technical details or a mini-essay on the relative negotiating power in Steam-publisher partnerships, I'm not going to be able to give you a satisfying answer.

I take this as the uncut version of "I don't have any clue" and accept that as a statement.

I am just confused, since you pretended to know so well how the final prices are made up.
Just to avoid any confusion from your side, you did this here:

Steam doesn't set prices, the publisher does.

And in addition to all of that, I just checked the Steam store and found BtS (there is as -25% sale for 2K games currently) for only 14.99€ (this is the reduced price). Biiiiiiiig deal!
Running over to Amazon, the same can be obtained for a mere 3.89 € (new).
And all prices refer to Germany, including taxes and whatnotever.

Well, how is that if the publisher sets prices?

 

[Senethro]

I'm not privy to the decisions of 2K/Steam but if you are, then please explain the pricing yourself.

 

[Commander Bello]

I'm not privy to the decisions of 2K/Steam but if you are, then please explain the pricing yourself.

Oh yes, you are so privy - you are the one who explained the pricing so well:

Steam doesn't set prices, the publisher does.

 

[Senethro]

Ooooh, look what I found.

Valve never talks about things like that. But some of their business partners do. For example the creators of Worms:
http://forum.team17.com/showpost.php?p=720095&postcount=39

It's not Steam that sets the price, it's the developer. The developer decides what prices are in individual regions and can also change the price in one region if it's not selling well there etc.


and indie developer Tripwire (Red Orchestra, Killing Floor):
http://gamegirl.5elements.net/2009/07/steam-who-sets-the-prices/

TWI has always set the price with Red Orchestra on steam. Valve has provided input and are great to talk to, but they never demanded TWI do a certain price point or anything. I don’t know how it is with other publishers and devs and can only assume that each game and publisher might have slightly different arrangements (no shoe fits all).

But the most basic way to think of it is:

TWI talks with Valve
TWI and Valve agree to agreement
TWI sets price
Person buys game
Valve takes their cut as stated in the wonderful world of paperwork
Valve passes on TWI’s cut
Everybody is happy
As needed TWI might decided to adjust price to fit market, or hold sales

Now that I've found it again I'll keep it handy for when you ask again next week.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Actually some people were against Steam because they rip you off, which is not true, don't buy from them at RRP they will give really good deals On old games or if you buy a bunch of games. Infact heres a current deal.

2k Game Pack, (It says this pack will also include Civ V but then it doesn't list it on the pack, so -_-, but even without Civ V its a good deal, you'd have to want all the games though, its a long list, so I spoilered it. It costs you £69.99, and if that includes Civ5!!! then thats a great bargain.)

Spoiler :

BioShock® 2
Released 9 Feb 2010
-25% £19.99
£14.99

BioShock™
Released 24 Aug 2007
-25% £13.99
£10.49

Borderlands
Released 29 Oct 2009
-25% £19.99
£14.99

Borderlands: Mad Moxxi's Underdome Riot
Released 7 Jan 2010
-25% £6.30
£4.72

Borderlands: The Secret Armory of General Knoxx
Released 25 Feb 2010
-25% £6.30
£4.72

Borderlands: The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned
Released 9 Dec 2009
-25% £6.30
£4.72

CivCity: Rome
Released 6 Apr 2007
-25% £13.99
£10.49

Freedom Force
Released 29 May 2009
-25% £2.99
£2.24

Freedom Force vs. the Third Reich
Released 29 May 2009
-25% £2.99
£2.24

Railroad Tycoon 3
Released 4 May 2007
-25% £5.99
£4.49

Railroad Tycoon II Platinum
Released 4 May 2007
-25% £2.99
£2.24

Shattered Union
Released 25 Oct 2006
-25% £5.99
£4.49

Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword
Released

Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Colonization
Released 24 Sep 2008
-25% £16.99
£12.74

Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Warlords
Released

Sid Meier's Civilization® III Complete
Released 25 Oct 2006
-25% £2.99
£2.24

Sid Meier's Civilization® IV
Released 26 Oct 2006
-25% £12.99
£9.74

Sid Meier's Pirates!
Released 25 Oct 2006
-25% £5.99
£4.49

Sid Meier's Railroads!
Released 4 May 2007
-25% £13.99
£10.49

The Stronghold Collection
Released 27 Oct 2009
-25% £19.99
£14.99

X-COM: Apocalypse
Released 4 Sep 2008
-25% £2.99
£2.24

X-COM: Enforcer
Released 4 Sep 2008
-25% £2.99
£2.24

X-COM: Interceptor
Released 4 Sep 2008
-25% £2.99
£2.24

X-COM: Terror From the Deep
Released 4 May 2007
-25% £2.99
£2.24

X-COM: UFO Defense
Released 4 Sep 2008
-25% £2.99
£2.24

£69.99 Cost to you

Ok, now to my other point, Someone said that most people don't want to use Steam because they have to pay with thier credit card. ??? Most people pay with stuff with Cards at shops, you aren't afraid they will steal your information so why do you think its in jeporady at steam. You can save your information to make future purchases just with a click or indeed you can have it so you need to type it from scratch each time, best to do this if you have other people on your steam account say Children who may decide to buy something without your permission. As for the security of sending your Credit card details over the internet. You don't send your pin code, if anyone gets this information, they can never access your bank, merely do what you did, to buy the game on steam, which is give your card number which isn't more dangerous than using the card at Tesco's. Though while I know, a criminal mastermind with your card number can do anything, but its not likely that your information will get into the hands of someone dastardly.

http://www.valvesoftware.com/privacy.html

This is thier privacy statement, read it if your privacy is important to you. I'm sure all transactions of money are done via secured methods. Or as secure as is possible. Your never safe from faudulant individuals, but Steam should not be more of a concern to you than any other shop.

"When you submit your payment information your data is protected by Secure Socket Layer (SSL) technology certified by a digital certificate."
Steam does use as I thought SSl technology, which is the same technology every payment website uses, it keeps your information as secure as it possibly can.

To go back to the point of why steam is so amazing.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/29180/

follow that link, a game called Osmosis, simple, cheap, glorious, it only takes up 33mb's of space on your hard drive, where would you ever find a game like this if not on steam, I'll tell you, you'd be forced to play a graphically stunted version on flash on your PC, Steam allows small developers to get a game like this out to us, at a very cheap price. £1.74 is all this game cost's, and i'm going to go buy it right now, it looks like it will be my source of entertainment for some hours tonight. Thiers a similar type of flash game like this, I forget its name but thats good fun too .

It's quite normal and common as a sales tactic to bundle many items together in that way. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where the trick is and why it's good for the seller, but let me point out a couple of the reasons:
1) Many of the games in the pack you would never have purchased. Many of them you probably would never have even considered purchasing. Heck, some of them you might not have even heard of before.
2) The advertising of bundles makes it all sound like win-win. Think about it though. Suppose there are only 2 or 3 games in there that you'd actually play for a decent length of time (let's face it - anyone buying about 20 games at once probably doesn't play every game to its dying last breath!). The amount you're saving off those 2 or 3 games - typically the most expensive ones and with the lowest reduction in price from RRP (25% off is pretty pathetic by the way) - is probably made up with the increased revenue from the "extras" games.

I will not deny here that there are many positive reasons as to why such a big bundle might be a good idea. e.g. it saves you a lot of time searching for prices of individual games or making lots of separate purchases incl. possibly at retail stores, being able to download the games in order of preference.

I would speculate that many gamers get a feeling of satisfaction with owning a good sized library of games. What I find particularly amazing is when someone enjoys buying something dirt cheap when if it hadn't been dirt cheap they wouldn't have wanted it.
Something is only dirt cheap when you pay much much less than what you would have happily paid for it. This means a lot of the games that get included in bundles as supposedly "dirt cheap" do not truely fit the category.

IMO

Something to try: Head over to somewhere like ebay and have a look at what sort of games get bundled together or the games that get bundled with consoles (this also applies to pretty much any retail store too): You will find that typically the bundled games are ones you never would have considered purchasing separately.

 

[Gyokuran]

I dunno about you, but I find it pretty easy to avoid accidentally illegally distributing software, accidentally hacking and botting in MP games, accidentally reverse engineering Steam or accidentally buying things with stolen credit cards.

Do you find yourself accidentally doing these sorts of things often enough to make purchasing stuff from Steam a risk? Because, if so, you might want to see a shrink -- I don't think it's normal to do that sort of stuff by accident, and I can't imagine why anyone would do any of it on purpose.

And since there aren't any other ways to lose access to your games, well, it's pretty much not an issue for me. Maybe for people who find themselves accidentally doing that stuff, but we already agree that they have a serious condition and should seek medical care.

Just to clarify, theres different types of "hacking": Cheating and Piracy. The most common is cheating to gain an advantage in an online game (aimbots/wallhacks/ect), and does not result in your account being disabled. If you play on a VAC enabled server and are caught using a cheat, then VAC bans you from playing on VAC servers but you can still play single player, host your own server, or play on non-VAC enabled servers. 27 out of the ~1000 or so games on steam use VAC, most of which are FPS games on the Source engine.

The second and much less common type is hacking the steam client its self to play games you have not paid for, which is more accurately described as Piracy. According to the Steam Support Wiki, your Steam account can be disabled for this.

 

[Chiyochan]

Just to clarify, theres different types of "hacking": Cheating and Piracy. The most common is cheating to gain an advantage in an online game (aimbots/wallhacks/ect), and does not result in your account being disabled. If you play on a VAC enabled server and are caught using a cheat, then VAC bans you from playing on VAC servers but you can still play single player, host your own server, or play on non-VAC enabled servers. 27 out of the ~1000 or so games on steam use VAC, most of which are FPS games on the Source engine.
.

I have only heard the exact opposite from people who have been banned, their account is then forfeit, and they can no longer play their games.

 

[Senethro]

I have only heard the exact opposite from people who have been banned, their account is then forfeit, and they can no longer play their games.

Then you've been speaking to people who have been hacking Steam itself, probably because they're pirates. I've a number of people on my Steam friendslist banned from MW2 for hacking but who still play other games.

 

[The_Coyote]

Now that I've found it again I'll keep it handy for when you ask again next week.

look what i found - the second original source is no longer available.

But ignoring this (i will not really question that this statement was made), even if the developer/publisher set the price - does this necessarily means that the online distributor has an obligation to sell the product to this price? Publishers also set a retail price (if you interpret a suggested retail price as set price) - but this price is not really binding.

Also the same source of the second quote - but in another blog post two days earlier claims:

Although publishers do not directly set the price as previously believed, they can still require enough percentage to help influence the price.

So what is really proven so far? Perhaps that the publisher sets a price. But is this price only like a suggested retail price (which is the base for the revenue sharing between publisher and online distributor happens) or a binding retail price for the online distributor?

 

[Gyokuran]

I have only heard the exact opposite from people who have been banned, their account is then forfeit, and they can no longer play their games.

While the people who develop cheats and cracked versions of games are technologically savvy, the people who use them are quite often not. Combined with the fact that VAC bans are delayed, this leads to rampant misinformation, baseless rumors, and unfounded paranoia being the norm in most cheating/piracy communities. The far more likely explanation is that their Aimbot came with a keylogger, or they tried to register a known pirated cd key, or they got phished and are incorrectly blaming VAC for their account being disabled.

 

[12agnar0k]

@piece of mind

yes i'm well aware that the things I pointed out such as discounts and bundles are well known and used strategies to get someone to buy something they wouldnt have otherwise brought, or to buy more of something they were only planning on buying one of. For example if you go to a store to buy a bottle of coke, and see 2 bottles of coke for £1.20, where as a normal bottle is £0.80 you get two for £0.60 each. You will unless you only had the £0.80 to spend in the first place get the two bottles of coke, even though, you went in the shop only intending to buy the one. It is a great method of sales.

But my point, and why I mentioned these deals that Steam offered is people were saying that Steam sells all thier games at much higher prices than you can find elsewhere, this is not true, they also sell thiers products in deals and bundles like everywhere else. If Steam are currently not running a Civilisation bundle or discount, then yes you would be able to find it cheaper else where, but if they are currently running a discount on it then it will/should be just as cheap as everywhere else.

Yes Steam also likes to sell in bundles as it gets you to buy games you had no interest in buying simply because your getting a discount on the one you do want. Other distributors utilise the same practice, though I don't believe I have ever seen the huge publisher based deals such as the one I mentioned elsewhere, more usually shops just have buy one get one free or buy 2 for X amount deals. Though yes Bundles do exist in other places to but perhaps not to the extend that Steam is able to throw them to you on a plate each day. Thier unique in that thier software includes a store on your desktop they can advertise thier deals to you, without pissing you off that you have thier software on your PC. Well that's debateable, some people don't like steam on thier PC.

 

[deanej]

You will unless you only had the £0.80 to spend in the first place get the two bottles of coke

Or if we don't see ourselves using the second bottle of coke any time soon. Some of us are smarter than that, you know.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I mostly can agree with your points, agnarok, but I don't think sales on bottles of coke are a good analogy to be making. 1 - they are consumables (have a one time use). 2 - they are identical. 3 - because of (2) it is likely that if a customer wants one bottle of coke they also want two unless storing it is inconvenient or storing it would cause it to lose some of its value (e.g. it was refrigerated, which adds to the price as you'd know).

IMO receiving a discount for a bulk purchase of a consumable is quite a way different from receiving a discount on purchases of multiple entertainment products.

I must admit it's very interesting to see the sort of bundles that publishers put together and sell on Steam (even 2K is doing is with all their games excluding civ5). These rarely present good value to me personally because I find it hard to imagine finding the time to play most of the games, assuming I even wanted to play them in the first place.
I worry a bit that these sort of sale strategies could encourage a mass consumption mentality. What I mean is, gamers will on average own or buy more games but at lower prices, meaning it would be natural for them to expect a lesser quality from each individual game. You don't usually find many people complaining about the quality of a game that cost them less than $5, but it should be fair game IMO. This could end up essentially being the difference between PCs and consoles. Using a service like Steam, gamers will own a huge number of outdated games, mostly purchased at cheap prices. People wanting console games so cheap have to wait a lot longer for the prices to drop as far as that. I would again use the anecdotal evidence of observing prices in game stores. The PC games on average look to be much cheaper, though it could be because they are on average older, than the console games.

It makes me wonder, a question I would ask of regular or established Steam users. Do you own any games at all (on Steam) that you have played for a negligible amount of time? e.g. less than 3 or 4 hours I would say. I haven't been using Steam very long and already I must confess to answering yes to that question.