Civ 4 Tournament Idea

[TheMeInTeam]

Holy hell, different already. In my run on this wang got judaism, and poached three cities off sully.

Crippled by war and pinned between protective civs.....a completely different look from this opening for sully. Also for peter.

 

[Civahaulic]

After we're done with this, we need something similar with roll-your-own AIs and everyone submitting their own AI to compete (a la: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=311889 )

 

[shyuhe]

@TMIT - do you mean Wang took 3 cities from Sully via early war or culture flip? Or just out expanded him?

 

[PaulisKhan]

This is the best and most interesting thread I have read for a long time.

Please keep up the good work! =D

 

[TheMeInTeam]

@TMIT - do you mean Wang took 3 cities from Sully via early war or culture flip? Or just out expanded him?

He declared unprovoked and overpowered him for 3 cities before the war stalled. They were never recaptured, except one much later by peter, which wang ultimately got back via taking it by force 1-2 turns later.

The trade hate on him has him essentially non-factor regardless though.

 

[Tempesta13]

Decided to give this a try. Started a Pangaea map/Deity/Random AI's (6) then changed "my" starting land to ice and moved my settler to a one tile island blocked off by ice so i wouldn't meet the AI's. Researched to alphabet, set build to research, turned research slider to 0% and kept something on the enter key all game. That way there's no demands/espionage/etc and the game will play all the way through without touching anything except when the +2 beakers/turn finishes a tech. Game took 20 minutes but if i did it again it probably would be around 15. This would depend on computer speed though since it slows down towards the end. The AI's all met me towards the end of the game - maybe when the researched satellites?

Anyway, Mansa won culture in 1785. Gilgamesh, Pacal, Mansa, Zara, Willem and Justinian were in the game. It was random but that seems to be most of the strongest AIs - probably would have been a tough game if a human was playing. Gilgamesh was on his way to win if it wasn't for mansa's culture.

Figure this would be a good way if anyone wants to get a bigger sample size. Even at 15 minutes/game it would take forever though. 100 games with 6 random civs would be around 10-15 games/civ (not sure how many civs there are) so even the "best" civ might only win 3 or 4 out of those 100 games. Maybe if 20 people do 20 games and list the winner of each game it would be enough to rank the civs but i doubt there will be many volunteers. Could even hand pick the leaders to make sure they each are in equal # of games - but that would add a lot of time to it.

 

[Sidney Magal]

Any chance this will continue, DMOC? It was a great idea.

 

[DMOC]

Tempesta - great game, if you have time you can take game 3 or 4 in the first post.

This will continue, it's just that I can't update during the week, I have school.

 

[jacklours]

Tempesta - great game, if you have time you can take game 3 or 4 in the first post.

This will continue, it's just that I can't update during the week, I have school.

Hmmm there has got to be at least one class that's easy where you could take the time to update us .... no ??? /jk

 

[DMOC]

My high school blocks Civ Fanatics.

 

[CivBeaver]

Very interesting thread. Looking forward to seeing Bismark in action, he usually does very good in my games.

@DMOC and Tempesta13: What is the name of the Mod that you use that shows additional info, like "___ has ___ gold for trade" and the improved score board in the bottom right? I definitely need this

Looking forward to more reports!

 

[jacklours]

Very interesting thread. Looking forward to seeing Bismark in action, he usually does very good in my games.

@DMOC and Tempesta13: What is the name of the Mod that you use that shows additional info, like "___ has ___ gold for trade" and the improved score board in the bottom right? I definitely need this

Looking forward to more reports!

BUG mode

 

[DMOC]

I'll try to set up a report soon since I have the day off.

By the way, if anyone wants to join the second Civ4 multi-team Demo.game, please check out that forum and hopefully join the team I founded, Team Mavericks (of course, the name's just as a placeholder). It'd be great to have additional members on the team.

 

[Tempesta13]

I ended up doing a full tournament of 32 games (got addicting) which was made up of a sort of triple elimination bracket of games with 6 or 7 AIs on a Pangaea map set to Deity. I would move myself to the ice to avoid contact until the UN was built. Then i would gift gold upon meeting AIs to keep them at pleased if i coudl since i wasn't sure if they would plot war vs me even though i was unreachable - which would mess them up late game. (100 or 200 gold gifts didn't affect much that late in the game - Deity AIs have plenty of gold anyway) I do have the 32 victory screenshots but i don't think i really need to post them. Once the map is revealed and UN built (giving contact to AIs) it's easy to follow what's going on by the notices of city capture, wonders plus checking the victory condition screen. I didn't use espionage or scouts or anything - and usually wasn't watching the games anyway. Holding enter won't work for the UN votes unless the mouse is in the right spot so they will stop the automatic turns and slow things down towards the end. Also you automatically will vote your 1 pop point towards whatever vote is on top i think but that doesn't matter much.

The results for top six AIs: Elizabeth, Isabella, Cathy, Louis, Qin, Darius

Others that were close to making it: Gandhi, Mansa, Rammy, Willem.

I think the results turned out pretty good. Those six are pretty much the best "finishing" AIs that are tough enough to make it to the end. Gandhi, Mansa and Willem were all just as good at achieving victory but wouldn't hold up in war occasionally. (Hatty and Pacal were the same way and didn't make it quite as far) Rammy was tougher but slower to a victory condition. Gandhi was 9 turns from getting to the final 6 when his 3rd culture city was taken. (Darius launched a ship to win that one)

Churchill, Alex, Boudica, Sury Justinian, Sully, Wang, DeGaulle, JC, Kublai, Napoleon, Pericles and Saladin all seemed to do consistently well, but too slow to a VC.

The last few games i actually spent a little time evening out the map a bit. I would space the AIs evenly and ensure none would be boxed in - also tried to even out their starting BFCs. Worked well since when i would check in (around 1000 AD, after circumnavigation, i would reveal all tiles in WB) all AIs would be around 10 cities unless that had been changed by war. Made it pretty even in the late game to see who manages to get a VC the best.

Some rounds i took the top 2 - the winner and the next closest AI to winning. Obviously the maps weren't even, and many variables can change the results (religion, who gets Sistine, early war etc...) so it's never gonna be 100% correct unless it's repeated many times. Also any map that isn't Pangaea would hinder some AIs (Isabella, Cathy, Louis and Qin all won one or more games with diplomation and Louis won domination once - continents or fractal would favor Elizabeth and some of the AIs that didn't make it like Mansa, Gandhi and Willem.

I bet a Deity Pangaea map with those six AIs would be tough to win though. Of course playing against Monty, Genghis, Ragnar etc... isn't any easier. They are less likely to win the game, but probably more likely to keep the human from winning.

I can play some of the games in this tournament (not for a few days though) if people are still interested. I definitely learned a lot about the AIs while doing this. Games were between 14-24 minutes long i think. Some quick diplomation and culture games being shorter, 1900s space wins longer. I think it's worth the 5 minutes or so to try and even out starts and spacing - probably makes the results much better.

 

[DMOC]

Round 1, Game 2

Moving on!

(Tempesta, I'll respond to your post after my update - and make the AI's friendly with you via the WB so that they won't declare war on you)

Part 2

Near the beginning of this round, Lincoln converted to Judaism, which meant that he was a heathen to virtually everyone. As you'll see, he got in a lot of wars.

One weird thing I noticed this round was that everyone seemed to want the Pyramids early, which basically cleared the way for Pacal II to get the Oracle on turn 71/1040 BC for Metal Casting.

Spoiler :

More good news - Wang Kon started the first war of the game by warring with Suleiman! But ... he declared war and didn't even have a stack of doom. Wooow.... You can see that Suleiman, despite all the real estate to the northeast, settled really close to him.

Spoiler :

Lincoln, meanwhile, got the Pyramids. Yes, the AI still prefers growth over production.

Spoiler :

Ouch! More .

Spoiler :

By the way, if it's any surprise, Pacal II founded Confucianism. And he's going to complete the Statue of Zeus.

Spoiler :

Why did Lincoln settle it here rather than in his capital? Or he could have rushed a wonder like the Great Libary to give him INSTANT science.

Spoiler :

By turn 100/375 BC, this is the way things looked. Montezuma is tops in power as expected.

Spoiler :

Churchill founds Christianity. Finally! This is the first religion since Buddhism that Pacal didn't found!

Spoiler :

Montezuma is in WHEOOHRN, with Wang Kon as his worst enemy. He's slowly building up his stack in Tlaxcala.

Spoiler :

Now it's moving! So apparently Peter isn't the target. Who is ... ?

Spoiler :

Pacal II continues to build wonders.

Spoiler :

Gasp! Could it be Pericles, who just finished the Colossus ...?

Spoiler :

Nope.

Spoiler :

Meanwhile, Suleiman declares war on Wang Kon.

Spoiler :

Montezuma took Chicago, while Suleiman took Cheju. Montezuma lost Chicago the very next turn, though. However, he isn't quitting.

Spoiler :

To be continued...

 

[PaulisKhan]

Haha awesome.
Go Monty Go!!!

 

[Tata]

I am really enjoying this thread. Keep the good work!

 

[bobbyboy29]

DMOC, this is a fantastic and engaging thread . I myself fancied lincolns start very much as well. I might even try out doing one of these, pleas keep this up it has great incite into how the AI really "thinks"

 

[Tempesta13]

@DMOC
Didn't know i could make the AI's friendly in WB - after 32 games you'd think i would have looked around in there to see what i could do...

I'll be back on my civ computer monday and will play one of the games. A few questions: what do you do with your starting settler? Best way to get visibility in all cities - is this a WB espionage adjustment or do you give yourself great spies? Also, for games with 7 or 8 civs are you using low sea level or do you think there is enough room on medium? What do you do with your starting land - change it to ocean or let the AIs expand into it if it doesn't give a big advantage to any of them? I think it's better to make the civs all 12-14 tiles apart if possible. A low sea level map with 8 AIs should have plenty of room, plus the human start can be given to an AI if that makes things more even. (move the civ with the worst start to the human start, then turn their land into ocean) Do you think it's best to "even" out BFCs - such as when a civ gets only a cow for food, or plains sheep and two calendar resources?

As for the game: Pacal looks like the biggest culture threat - has Sistine gone yet? Other than that i think Wang has a shot to win also - if he can take a couple cities from Suleiman, and get the barb city and a jungle city or two he could have around 12 cities and probably end up first to space. I don't see Monty continuing to conquer - now that lincoln has longbows he might stall. Once he's far enough behind in tech Monty doesn't do well.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Haha awesome.
Go Monty Go!!!

Indeed, go! I wonder who will get dogpiled by Peter though (stack next to greek border in last pic)