Civ 5 Design Challenge II - Mechanics

[Sgtwolf00]

Much of their history and language is sacred, so they would rather it not be online/in a video game. Native America also did not use writing (instead they used oral history), so their sacred language is also how they recorded their history.

Ah okay, but why do they consider it sacred? Is it because of the oral tradition?

Am I wrong in counting that the Pueblo design already won even without Senshi's vote? Did we decide not to allow Natan a vote?

With Natan's vote that's 4 vote's for Uighur. Without Natan's vote that's 3 for Uighur, and why would we not allow Natan to vote for?

 

[Urdnot_Scott]

Ah okay, but why do they consider it sacred? Is it because of the oral tradition?

Why does any culture find anything sacred? As far as I know the main gripe the Pueblo had was that depicting a dead person (like Pope) went against some pretty major tenets of their culture, so that ruled out a Pueblo civ led by anyone except the current tribal elders which would have been pretty underwhelming (no offence any Pueblo leaders) and would have made the civ offensive the minute any one of them died.

 

[Uighur_Caesar]

I'm just gonna throw in a mechanic since I'm pretty sure I have more even if we don't count Natan for whatever arbitrary reason. I don't think this has been used by an actual civ, but lmk anyway:

"May annex City States with Faith"

 

[inthesomeday]

The Papal States

UA: Sancta Sedes
Settlers may not be built using production but bought with faith for half the cost of the next prophet. Free settler with the construction of a shrine in the capital. Shrines and temples cost half as much to build or buy; affect stacks with Piety opener.

UB: Rocca
Replaces castle. Provides +2 defense for every 1 faith produced by the city, and internal trade routes between two cities, if one contains a Rocca, provide +2 faith. If both cities have a Rocca, this bonus is doubled.

UU: Bishop
Replaces missionary. When at war with a city-state, Bishops can spend an amount of faith equal to half the amount required for the next prophet to annex the city-state when on a tile adjacent to the city-state with full movement. City-states annexed by Bishops immediately adopt your religion.

 

[Sgtwolf00]

Why does any culture find anything sacred?

Because that culture deems that thing to be something that is holy in nature or is worthy enough for veneration and remembrance. This can come about in many different ways.

As far as I know the main gripe the Pueblo had was that depicting a dead person (like Pope) went against some pretty major tenets of their culture, so that ruled out a Pueblo civ led by anyone except the current tribal elders which would have been pretty underwhelming (no offence any Pueblo leaders) and would have made the civ offensive the minute any one of them died.

So they don't like people depicting a deceased person like Pope? Okay I'm cool with that.

I'm just gonna throw in a mechanic since I'm pretty sure I have more even if we don't count Natan for whatever arbitrary reason. I don't think this has been used by an actual civ, but lmk anyway:

"May annex City States with Faith"

What! Who gave you the authority too... Ah stuff it! You've won this challenge and stalling it any longer for votes wouldn't do any one good. So this time we have a nicer and more city state focus mechanic. I've got some ideas for this.

The Papal States

UA: Sancta Sedes
Settlers may not be built using production but bought with faith for half the cost of the next prophet. Free settler with the construction of a shrine in the capital. Shrines and temples cost half as much to build or buy; affect stacks with Piety opener.

UB: Rocca
Replaces castle. Provides +2 defense for every 1 faith produced by the city, and internal trade routes between two cities, if one contains a Rocca, provide +2 faith. If both cities have a Rocca, this bonus is doubled.

UU: Bishop
Replaces missionary. When at war with a city-state, Bishops can spend an amount of faith equal to half the amount required for the next prophet to annex the city-state when on a tile adjacent to the city-state with full movement. City-states annexed by Bishops immediately adopt your religion.

And there's the obligatory Papal civ! Nice design though!

 

[Natan35]

I'm just gonna throw in a mechanic since I'm pretty sure I have more even if we don't count Natan for whatever arbitrary reason. I don't think this has been used by an actual civ, but lmk anyway:

"May annex City States with Faith"

Annex, conquer or both? Annexing and conquering are different things...

 

[GPuzzle]

Annex, conquer or both? Annexing and conquering are different things...

Fairly sure it can be reworded to "Basically Austria's UA, but with Faith instead of Gold and with no set condition on whether or not you need to be Allied with the city state for X amount of turns".

 

[Natan35]

Hm, well

Kingdom of Nri(Ìfikuánim)
UA: God's Realm
May not forcibly annex cities, but gain +1 faith in the capital for each city following your religion. May spend faith to assimilate city states following your religion into your empire as long as no one else has more influence with them.

UU: Mbùríchi
Replaces Settler\ missionary. Spawns when a great prophet is born, though may be built like a settler. Rather than founding cities, it may be used to spread your religion up to 3 times, granting influence when doing so in city states. It also grants a lump sum of food in every city and an amount of gold when consumed.

UB: Mbari House
Replaces museum. Unlike it, the Mbari house grants +1 faith for each 3 specialists worked by the city when one of the great work slots is filled, increasing to +2 after filling the second slot. Unlocked at architecture, and costs no maintenance.

 

[inthesomeday]

Can the settlers not found cities? It says "rather than" which leads me to believe they can't, but I thought I'd verify before evaluating the design

 

[Natan35]

Yeah, the UU can't found cities.

 

[Sgtwolf00]

Ok so this is a late post, but I've been very busy so it's amazing that I've got this in. Now my civ will be similar to the vanilla Aztecs and some of the other proposed Aztecs from this site. But like I said I didn't have a lot of time and this was and easy(ish) nation to do. So I present to you Montezuma of the Aztec Triple Alliance!

(Also one, sorry for the long descriptions. I found no better way to explain the uniques or how to incorporate them into the game with what little information I had, two since I couldn't decide which building I wanted, I've decided to add them in as 3rd and 4th UC. Cause there's no rule against that.)

The Aztec Triple Alliance under Tlatoani Montezuma of Tenochtitlan

UA: Flower Wars
May annex City States with faith by being at war for 5 turns or more and eliminating half of that City State's military. Alternatively, may puppet City States with Faith by demanding tribute. +15% Combat Strength for units outside friendly territory.

UU: Quauhpilli (Swordsman replacement)
The Quauhpilli is a unique Swordsman replacement for the Aztecs. Receive +33% combat bonus when fighting in forest or jungle tiles and doesn't require iron. You can also sacrifice one pop from a city to instantly recruit a Quaupilli.

UB: Telpochcalli (Library replacement)
The Telochcalli is a unique library replacement for the Aztecs. Instead of giving it usual bonus of +1 Science for every 2 Citizens in the city, the Telochcalli give's +1 Science and Faith for every 2 Citizens in a city while also costing 50 Production instead of 75 Production.

The next two uniques are the 3rd and 4th UC's.

UB: Calmecac (University replacement)
The Calmecac is a unique University replacement for the Aztecs. Instead of it's usual bonuses the Calmecac yields +33% Science (+50% with Free Thought policy) and +33% Faith, +2 Science and production from jungle tiles. Has the two Science Specialist slots plus a Priest and Engineer (renamed Artisan) specialist slot. (The Priest gives +3 faith and +3 great person points towards Great Prophets.) Doesn't require a library to build.

UB: Double Aqueduct (Aqueduct replacement)
The Double Aqueduct is a unique Aqueduct replacement for the Aztecs. Along with it's usual benefits, which is +40% of Food is carried over after a new Citizen is born, if a city is connected to the capital and both the capital and that city have a Double Aqueduct, then the Double Aqueduct yields +5% more food and all tiles next to fresh watter yield +1 food.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I think I get the gist of it so I simplified that UA description for you.

UA: Flower Wars
May annex City States with faith by being at war for 5 turns or more and eliminating half of that City State's military. Alternatively, may puppet City States with Faith by demanding tribute. +15% Combat Strength for units outside friendly territory.

Details like the amount of faith require for each option aren't entirely necessary since people can see things in-game themselves - see Austria in vanilla and the gold costs. Also dw about explaining each option in length, usually just plainly stating the mechanic without the finer details can work well enough (that's also what the tooltips and civilopedia are for)

Also, I think it'd be better if you settle on just 3 uniques (UA, U1, U2), part of any good design process is deciding what to leave out. It's already tough to decide between the three unique attributes of one civ vs the three of another; having an extra 2 is actually a bit much to take on. It'd also be a bit unfair for people who decide to stick with three attributes.

 

[kul]

How long until deadline?
also

Kolano Fat Kingdoms (Raja Ampat)

Leader: Gurabesi
Capital: Waigeo

UA: Petuanan
City States Friends or Allies that had never followed any Religion before can be puppeted or assimilated to your Empire the first time it followed your Religion by spending additional Faith. These cities retain their Palace, and all Palaces in your Empire also produce additional +1 Faith who increased by +1 per each new era. Each of these City States also provides additional delegate to the World Congress, as much as an allied City States would.

UU: Komalo
Replaces Great Generals and Great Admiral. Grants all units within its effect range Amphibious and Survivalism 3 promotions. Retain both the Citadel and Naval Repair ability its counterparts has, but only be consumed when building Citadels (though you can only use Naval Repair ability once). 16% more expensive to obtain, but receive a lump of Faith whenever this unit is created or expended/killed.

UI: War Samdin
Replacement for Shrine. War Sambin provides +2 Faith instead of +1 and also act as a freshwater resource for the City. Slightly more expensive to built, it also gives you +1 Faith per each 4 Citizen in the city that follows your Religion.

 

[inthesomeday]

Well the challenge was released on 27 Jan, so the deadline is probably in 2-3 days

 

[Scapegrace]

Taiping (Hong Xiuquan)
Start Bias: Coastal
Capital: Tianjing
UA: Heavenly Kingdom
Allied City-States that share your Religion and with whom you have over 150 Influence may be annexed into the Empire while you are at War with another Major Civilization. +2 resting City-State Influence for each Holy Site in the Empire.
UU: Longhair (replaces Rifleman)
Unlike the Rifleman it replaces, the Longhair is marked by its fanaticism, doing additional damage while wounded¹ and generating Faith per kill. It also starts with Shock I and Charge. Upgrades to Great War Infantry.
UB: Tianwang Fu (replaces Garden)
Generates +1 Faith and grants a +5% Great Person generation bonus for each Great Prophet spawned. Additionally, Religious Pressure from Cities with a Tianwang Fu is increased by 25% for each City in which one is built.

1:-
99-75 HP: +10%
74-50: +20%
49-25: +30%
24-1: +50%

The Longhair also doesn't suffer a Combat Penalty while wounded, and its unique promotion does stack with the Elite Forces tenet in Autocracy.

 

[Sgtwolf00]

I think I get the gist of it so I simplified that UA description for you.



Details like the amount of faith require for each option aren't entirely necessary since people can see things in-game themselves - see Austria in vanilla and the gold costs. Also dw about explaining each option in length, usually just plainly stating the mechanic without the finer details can work well enough (that's also what the tooltips and civilopedia are for)

Also, I think it'd be better if you settle on just 3 uniques (UA, U1, U2), part of any good design process is deciding what to leave out. It's already tough to decide between the three unique attributes of one civ vs the three of another; having an extra 2 is actually a bit much to take on. It'd also be a bit unfair for people who decide to stick with three attributes.

Yeah that's, wow that's much simpler. Yes the finer details could be left to in game descriptions, but I wasn't thinking about that when I was writing. (kinda was rushing.) Well I do agree with you about having the UC's is simpler and more fair than having 5, I like the design so I'm going to keep it. When voting starts perhaps you can voter on my civ based on the first thee UC's and not the least two? I'm not sure how they've done this in the past.

 

[NiaoMeow]

The Anishinaabe

Leader: Pontiac

UA: Council of Three Fires
Every city gains a random and free tier one building (Shrine, Market or Granary). In cities with a shrine, specialist give +2 faith and +1 faith on freshwater tiles (rivers and lakes). free In cities with a free market, specialists give +2 gold and lengthen trade routes by +5% each. In cities with a free Granary, specialists give +2 science and +1 culture on freshwater tiles (rivers and lakes).

UU: Midew (Great Merchant)
May not build custom houses. Can be acquired by upgrading great people with 150 culture (300 /in the Renaissance and beyond). May annex a city state for faith, gold or science depending which free building was present in the city they were born in.

UB: Doodem (Amphitheater)
Gives an additional +1 faith and a random specialist slot.

 

[inthesomeday]

Retain both the Citadel and Naval Repair ability its counterparts has, but only be consumed when building Citadels

Wouldn't this mean invincible fleets? If the unit has four move, I'm imagining holding naval positions until all enemy shots are gone by repeatedly using the repair fleet ability in succession each time the navy brings a ship close to death, providing infinite health and experience for at least one ship in a fleet. Of course, there's some possibility this could eventually end by like slamming a privateer into the frigate holding the unit, but it seems like this would be an unchallengeable and invincible fleet until the nuclear age. Plus by attracting all this experience, wouldn't it basically spam the naval version?

 

[kul]

Im imagining that it the Naval Repair can only be done once per Komalo. The description was there in the previous version og the post but I delete it since I thought it was implied. Since in my previous games I've been playing mainly on land, I must say I am a bit late when its time to talk about admiral generation spamming. How about if I just make them more expensive to gain?

 

[inthesomeday]

The revised version of the unit's abilities definitely fixes the potential bug. Good design overall, I especially like the bit in the UA about keeping the palaces and the UB providing a freshwater source.