Civ 5 or Civ 4?

Civ5 is a little bit deeper than some folks thinks, but Civ4 was pretty alright as it had some stuff in it, that doesn't appear in Civ5.

Still, Civ5 can annoy you to death, if you like that kind of playing...or it can just delight you.

Civ5 is not a fixed game, but still very playable, with different war-tactics and many different things. Hopefully they will sort out some of these bugs in time, instead of spamming DLC,s!

Civ4 is not a fixed game and was left behind, still have a few serious bugs that was never attended to, but as a game, it is a good game.

Civ3 was good though! :)
 
Civ5 is worth it ONLY if you absolutely wants to have 1upt.
If you aren't single-minded about this feature, it's vastly inferior to Civ4 in every single way.

That's a bit too harsh. I'd say, civ5 graphics, hexes, and mod manager are much better than in civ4.

But yes, all the other features are better in civ4. Id take those 4 things from civ5 as a base for the game, and then make it civ4.
 
That's a bit too harsh. I'd say, civ5 graphics, hexes, and mod manager are much better than in civ4.

But yes, all the other features are better in civ4. Id take those 4 things from civ5 as a base for the game, and then make it civ4.
Hexe are pretty much irrelevant to be honest - I've nothing against them, but they don't actually bring anything of value by themselves to the game (they don't remove anything either).
As for graphics, it's again a question of tastes - I prefer the animated and lively graphics of Civ4 myself, I find Civ5's ones horribly "dead" and still (not to mention they use atrocious and egregious console icons to show they are used, rather than the much better improvement-specific animation).
 
At the risk of repeating what everyone else has already said (and primarily because I want to get to post 1,000), I'd have to say CIV is the one to go for.

I've had both CIV and CiV from release and CIV is the one I'm still playing. I try CiV every so often after patches, but the carpet of doom makes me wish for the admittedly flawed but easier to manage stacks in CIV.

From a more pragmatic and neutral perspective though, I'd say that CIV is the better empire management game and CiV is the better warmongering game (if you can put up with the carpet of doom effect).

Talking about graphics though, if they could combine the graphics of CiV with the used tile animations and swaying trees, crows flying from trees and all the other nice little touches from CIV, I'd be happy. It's generally easier to see what's going on at a glance with a tile in CIV, but on the other hand, each tile doesn't matter quite so much in CiV so maybe that's why they dropped the tile animations.

The city management screen is much clearer and easier to use in CIV as well. Personally, I find the city management screen in CiV an abomination, but of course, this is all just personal opinion.

Woop! 1000th post!
 
I had the misfortune of having my internet break on me just before the beginning of the year, and due to problems with starting steam offline (i.e. it wouldn't), I had to revert to Civ4 Warlords. There are nice things about both games, really. I really like them both. But I have much more of an itch to go back to Civ5 now that my internet is up and running again. The tedium of moving units in 1upt just doesn't compare to the tedium of moving and attacking with multiple stacks as you go from city to city. As an example. Perhaps BtS tips it the other way, but the key probably is that both games are certainly worthy of your gaming time.
 
The tedium of moving units in 1upt just doesn't compare to the tedium of moving and attacking with multiple stacks as you go from city to city.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand how people would find that tedious, but I have the micro-management nature and maybe that lends itself to the enjoyment of what others might find tedious.

I think I could have worded it better by saying that it's the movement restrictions that the carpet-of-doom can place on you rather than 1UPT itself that I find annoying.
 
Don't get me wrong, I can understand how people would find that tedious, but I have the micro-management nature and maybe that lends itself to the enjoyment of what others might find tedious.

I think I could have worded it better by saying that it's the movement restrictions that the carpet-of-doom can place on you rather than 1UPT itself that I find annoying.

I completely agree. The other night I was trying to bring 7-8 units home from a (successful) war and they had to pass through a friendly city state. Which took forever, due to the city state constantly shuffling its units about for no reason and getting in the way. I like the idea of 1upt but they way it is implemented I honestly prefer stacks, outside of combat it adds nothing but frustration and boredom.
 
Even if you end up not liking Civ5 and wishing for Civ4, you can probably get Civ4 for a couple of bucks, so using the voucher on it sounds like a waste.
This.

I actually like Civ 4 more than Civ 5, though I like them both.

But you're saving more money by getting Civ 5, so if there's any chance at all you won't hate it, I'd just get Civ 5
 
If you want diplomacy: Civ IV

Varied ways of playing the game: Civ IV

Multiple paths to victory: Civ IV

Different styles of play from the AI: Civ IV

Like 1 unit per tile: Civ V

I'd add the city-states for civ5 which fill sup the map better than civ4.

I tried to start a civ4 game and found thta not buying tiles, big open land because no CS as a turn off
 
If you want diplomacy: Civ IV

If you want diplomacy then, quite honestly: Europa Universalis or Total War.

If you want oversimplified diplomacy that works well: Civ IV.

If you want marginally less simple but still oversimplified diplomacy that doesn't work because the AI can't handle it: Civ V.

If you've seen the way diplomacy with city-states works in Civ V, this is pretty much how diplomacy generally works in all previous Civ games - you do tasks that please them or give them presents, you gradually build up influence until you're unshakeable allies, largely regardless of the surrounding context, and often even if you've allied with their worst enemy. If you've built up influence enough, even going to war with that civ's second-best friend won't much affect relationships between the two of you.

Civ V operates an influence system with rival civs that is in principle more dynamic, having various mechanisms to temporarily reduce or increase influence. The only slight problem is, it doesn't actually work because the AI can't handle that added complexity.

Diplomacy can be made to work in Civ V to some degree; a number of people here have observed that it is hard to play diplomatically compared with Civ IV. This is true. These same people typically see this as a drawback in Civ V. This is a matter of opinion.

What is not a matter of opinion is that Civ V AIs will often make very bad (by their standards) deals - for example I was recently given all French cities and their gold reserves before the year 1 AD, because I was killing a lot of their units and had started to launch an attack on Tours. It's true that this was after I had refused several less generous peace deals, and the French could not hold that city, but they could at least have tried offering me Tours but not also all their gold rserves, their resources, and Orleans. The AI undervalues gold and will trade it away for things it doesn't need or won't use (such as open borders if on another continent, luxury resources when it is not short of happiness, or oil when it doesn't have the technology for any units that use oil).

Varied ways of playing the game: Civ IV

Varied ways of playing the game: Civ IV or Civ V.

Ease of cheesing to victory by only playing the game one way: Civ V.

Multiple paths to victory: Civ IV

Tie between the two in general victory conditions.

1. Tech up and build a spaceship.
2. Tech up, use a lot of bribes to make other civs like you and build the UN
3. Go to war against everyone and either kill everyone or kill enough and force enough of the remainder into vassalage to win UN votes.
4. Develop three culture cities.

Civ V:

1. Tech up and build a spaceship.
2. Tech up, use a lot of bribes, social policies and/or city-state quests to make enough city-states like you and build the UN.
3. Go to war against everyone and capture their capitals.
4. Develop five social policy branches.

Both diplomacy and culture victories arguably can be achieved in more varied permutations in Civ V than in Civ IV.

Different styles of play from the AI: Civ IV

Both Civ IV and Civ V. There are even threads devoted to analysing leader differences in practice and spreadsheets indicating their differences in programming in Civ V.

Like 1 unit per tile: Civ V

Unless you like it to work...

Like limited strategic resources: Civ V

Like city-states: Civ V

Like religion as a separate mechanic: Civ IV

Like espionage: Civ IV

etc. etc.
 
Let's be honest. Civ4 is dated. You probably played it ad absurdum. Why keep playing the same old game over and over? Sure, if it brings you enjoyment, why not, but I doubt that. After a while, you will get the "been there, done that" effect. Revisiting CiV4 after so much time has passed is a drag.

Try soemthing new. Give Civ5 a go. It's different, it's fresh and the "flaws" are at best arguable (as you can see by the millions of threads arguing back and forth).

Even if you end up not liking Civ5 and wishing for Civ4, you can probably get Civ4 for a couple of bucks, so using the voucher on it sounds like a waste.

Civ 4 is dated in the same way that Chess is dated.

Civ 5 on the other hand is the tic tac toe of strategy games however. Albeit like playing tic-tac toe with a pair of baseball gloves - the interface is that good!
 
I think i would suggest you get CIV V for the reason that CIV IV will really never cost that much and yu save more money getting V.

Personally, as I have saida few times here, I like CIV V. I honestly do, it has several mechanics that I really enjoy OVER CIV IV (if you want to flame me, you can).

People will talk about the AI being better in IV than in V. I'm not sure this is true. what i think might be more accurate to say is that IV had so much more happening and depth that the flaws in the AI were not as noticeable. In V, it just isn't as deep of a game. There are far less things happening (no religion, espionage, corporations, real trade networks....why do i like V better???). therefore the AI short-comings are right there. But in my opinion the POTENTIAL of V is so much greater than IV ever had/ the basic game engine is there, it just needs to be adjusted a bit (like the BTS in IV was) and we will have the game we wanted. So, get V :)
 
Personally, as I have saida few times here, I like CIV V. I honestly do, it has several mechanics that I really enjoy OVER CIV IV (if you want to flame me, you can).

Which mechanics are those? I personally really like the hex grid. I'm not a fan of 1 unit per tile, or at least how it's now implemented.
 
CiV is still buggy. And it really rubs me the wrong way that they make DLC for people to buy when the base game is still broken.

With Firaxis working on the new X-Com, I wonder if they will ever fix CiV, or have we seen the last patch?
 
Which mechanics are those? I personally really like the hex grid. I'm not a fan of 1 unit per tile, or at least how it's now implemented.

I actually just played Civ IV for the first time in a while, having got rather fed up with a few attack-heavy Civ V games in succession. Things I find disappointing about Civ IV looking back (and not all were fixed in Civ V by any means):

- A long-term big problem: the overreliance on religion in the early game, particularly for happiness control. I decided not to prioritise religion, expecting (as has often been recommended here) to have cultural transfer from another civ. Naturally it was some time after making this decision before I found my island was uninhabited except for me (it was a reasonably big island). The most important consquence is that there are no other early-game means for controlling happiness except for resources (and the only happiness resource on my island was sugar, needing both Calendar and Iron Working to use).

vs. Civ V: Civ V's tech tree is balanced to ensure that you're never more than two techs away from securing luxuries, a necessity given the way happiness works in this game; no more Calendar halfway down the tree. There are also more happiness-producing buildings, while at the same time temples' happiness bonus is still linked to religion through the Piety policy branch (which, incidentally, is another improvement - plainly Hinduism and Buddhism are much more useful to obtain than Islam due to the difference in the game stage when you can obtain them. Piety standardises when each civ can start gaining 'religious' bonuses).

- Health: I've argued elsewhere (to the well-supported and persuasive counterargument "No it's not!") that health is a redundant mechanic, since you always get to the stage where you want to control population long before it becomes an issue, and incidental health benefits you get from buildings like granaries you'll usually be building anyway ensure you pretty much never get to a point where it's an issue. I've been assured that this is not the case, so I was paying particular attention to the effect health had in this game. The answer: zilch. I had a well-sited capital with fresh water and forests, but I built a coastal city with no water or forest, and a city adjacent to the two sugar-bearing jungles (which was otherwise surrounded by forest). City placement had no detectable effect as far as health issues were concerned. My cities always exceeded the happiness threshold, making it pointless to grow them any further due to striking workers, long before any health problems would have arisen. The main effect of health was to prompt me to avoid building barays on the basis that they're nearly pointless... I was playing on Prince, however this gives only a +2 health bonus based on level, and all my cities were consistently more than 2 above the threshold for ill health.

Khmer are however an expansive civ, which might help. Tried another start, as Pericles, and likewise no effect of health (and I'm not a fan of having to build an otherwise pointless aqueduct to build Hanging Gardens, should I want it).

Incidentally, this made two games in a row with no copper. And now I had other civs to deal with, I faithfully kept up relations, maintained open borders, shared the Aztecs' religion - only to have Montezuma declare war on me while the slightly less positive Portugese (unhappy because I was sharing their borders) remained cautious but non-belligerent.

This is only one recent anecdote, however comparing with the Civ V system I can't help seeing a shortcoming. I instinctively thought, when weighing whether to settle near Portugal to get the best access to resources, "is this worth the risk of conflict?" In Civ V, you make a decision one way or the other, and it's going to dictate whether you have a war on your hands.

In this instance, at least, in Civ IV, the leaders' personalities seemed to make any diplomatic decision-making on my part entirely redundant. Yes, settling near Joao was a bad move diplomatically, but he's a friendly enough sort so no harm done. Montezuma by contrast is notoriously belligerent, whatever I do to appease him, down to sharing his religion.

I'd stress this is a single anecdote - one of my main criticisms of Civ V is that it's very hard to control diplomatic relations, and at least in my memory Civ IV was generally better in that respect. There do appear to be examples like the above, however, that represent the exceptions which prove the rule.

Aaargh! I meant to quote rather than edit this, and ended up losing a whole lot of other comments I'd made. These include:

3. Workers cost food to produce. This makes sense for settlers, but for workers it's just (a) an unnecessary cost at the start of the game when you have little option but to make them, and (b) a way of circumventing population growth penalties later in the game by centralising worker production in developed cities, one of several mechanics that makes population control less challenging than it really ought to be.

4. Copper - or, more specifically the fact that until gunpowder most units are resource-linked. Shortage of iron is a problem in Civ V that's been discussed a couple of times here, however in Civ V there are weaker but serviceable alterantive units you can use if you find yourself without a relevant resource. In Civ IV you have ... Warriors, Archers and Catapults.

5. Maintenance. Maintenance exists to stop ICS, which it does. Unfortunately, this is more or less all it does. Gone or substantially reduced are meaningful penalties (other than production time, which likewise exists in other Civ games) for building units in large numbers, duplicating every building you want in every city and so forth. In Civ V (and in Civs I-III), choosing building X over building Y or unit Z was a meaningful decision because each came with a maintenance cost of its very own. This is exacerbated in Civ IV by the low value of gold; in Civ V you not only have to juggle maintenance costs for units and buildings, you have to do so while keeping your GPT as high as possible. In Civ IV, where gold was notoriously of little use, you just needed to prevent your income being negative for too long. Of course the Civ IV trade off is that the higher your maintenance cost, the more science you have to sacrifice. Which works to a degree, but this mechanic is still there after a fashion in Civ V, and simplifying decisions about building location and identity, unit numbers and identity, and city placement all into a single slider is a rather shallow mechanic.

6. Tile improvements. Civ IV has a varied and interesting array of tile improvements - but before you reach Machinery or Metal Casting, you have the standard three, and the choice between them is more of a no-brainer than in Civ V. Population in Civ IV is a double-edged sword, so farms are not universally useful (and are limited in where they can be placed). Production values for all tiles are higher, so mines are less useful generally. Conversely, not only is science tied to commerce but trading posts give much higher output than the other improvement types, so until you reach techs that make Workshops useful, any tile that can't use a water mill and isn't a forest (which in Civ IV gets replaced by the cottage but not the lumbermill) is just somewhere to spam cottages, Civ V has not, in all honestly, solved this issue - it's notorious for trading posts being the de facto improvement, but at least the way I play it's less pronounced.

7. Restrictive tech tree. The tech tree has a lot more options, but a lot fewer 'right' options, and a lot of techs (like Aesthetics) which are mostly there on the way to something else rather than anything you'd shoot for in its own right. Take the 'wrong' tech paths and you spend a lot of the early game without building options or unit options (take your pick depending on which path you take), you take longer to get to the point where there's anything for workers to do other than spam cottages, and so forth. In Civ V, I feel, the tech tree is there to offer alternative viable strategies to suit different situations, while in Civ IV the larger tech tree is there to make it more challenging to select the few ''right' tech paths from a larger number of 'wrong' ones. Of course, the problem with this approach is that once you've cracked the solution, the tech progression is the same every time; playing the Civ IV tech tree is more akin to filling in a crossword than playing a strategy game.
 
The mechanics that i like in CIV V:
1) 1 UPT is great
2) Hexes...this helps a lot with zones of control
3) Roads having a maintenance cost
4) Empire wide happiness
5) No more slider (OK, sometimes I want it back, but rarely)
6) Some combat elements (ranged weapons...but not the fact that you ALWAYS take damage for a melee)
7) RA's.....sorry, I think they are cool (although i do miss stealing tech)
You will notice that there are other things not on this list, but those are the good ones I can think of right now.....
 
1UPT, (not the way the AI handles it though) hex grid, and possibly the border expansion/culture from Civ 5. Also, I like the look of Civ 5 better, especially the leaders with less exaggerated proportions. Other than that, Civ 4 I think.

On the other hand, when I remember Civ 4, I remember the FFH mod the most since I played it the most. Perhaps Civ 5 will shine once the modders can really do their work on it.
 
Thanks everyone.

I ended up grabbing Civ IV. I don't know. I really enjoy the diplomacy, interactions with the leaders, religion, espionage. Things that are missing from V.

Civ V definitely has some good features and I might pick it up one day but I'll wait until an expansion or something is released. I know the patches may have fixed some of my issues when I played it when it was released but the things I enjoy from IV ruined those games for me in V. Felt like I couldn't get an ally because of the back flipping AI.
 
Personally I like both games and I think the only major problem Civ5 had was that it came after Civ4. Civ4 was so good that no matter what they released next it almost certainly wasn't going to be as near perfect as Civ4 was, like if JK Rowling ever writes another book then no matter how good it is there's going to be a bunch of people saying how Harry Potter is so much better in everyway.

4 and 5 are different in various aspects and it's purely subjective which you prefer and as far as I'm concerened the only objectively superior area in Civ4 is the staggering modding scene. Civ4 has an absolutely amazing amount of quality mods for it, covering just about every possible range of scenarios you might want. From focussing into specific parts of history to making Civ cover an even larger period of time, new units, new civs, fantasy, sci-fi, just about everything you can think of, there's a mod for that.
I've probably put more hours into Fall From Heaven 2 and it's mods than I have vanilla Civ4. Heck, when my brother saw me playing 'Rise from Ereberus' (a mod for Fall From Heaven) and asked what I was playing I said it was a mod for Fall From Heaven and when he asked what that was I started of by saying "It's a game like Civ but in a fantasy setting" before remembering it was a Civ mod not a stand alone game.

That said, with the release of things like 'Civ Nights' the Civ5 mod scene seems to be taking off, so I hope that given the same amount of time the Civ5 mod scene will be as good as Civ4's.
 
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