Civ 6 Deity Tier List –– discussing DLC civs now, R&F civs starting 2/19

[Forbiddentwo]

It seems almost-but-not-quite possible to take advantage of most of all of Poland's bonuses.

So I guess I'll go for:

Political philosophy while doing the typical archer conquest

If I capture a city with a holy site, do faith projects until I get a prophet and try to keep other civs from squelching it. (This is for the reliquaries belief)

Feudalism while going commercial district -> caravan to capital -> UB in every city

Mercenaries

Beeline divine right for mont st michel so I can create suicide apostles to fill up my relic slots

Somewhere in there I'd need to build holy sites everywhere so I'll have places to put all the relics.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

As Poland, I'd go Political Philosophy/Theology > Feudalism > Reformed Church/Mercenaries, depending on the route I take

I don't think you need to go Reliquaries, though it's very powerful. You need only half of its effects (and unlike Kongo, you don't rely exclusively on Relics for faith generation). But it might be viable if you meet Kandy early.

You also don't need Mont St. Michel if going for a Religious Victory. The bonuses from Relics, for me, aren't worth all the production going to a Wonder, especially since it doesn't directly help your victory. By the time you reach Divine Right, your religious infrastructure should be already in place.

 

[Ornen]

Any thoughts on the new patch? The harbor nerf is a nasty one for England – their UD has lost a lot of ground in recent patches. I'm finding early rushes trickier now as well, with faster AI walls and more active barbarians that often get in the way of invading armies. Early conquest is far from prohibitively difficult, though, and the rewards are just as great – if anything, this feels like a slight boost to civs with early bonuses.

I'm not as keen on Australia as many people I've seen, but I haven't finished a full game with them. I like the district bonus, and their tile bonuses seem useful. But I've never been crazy about housing bonuses, since amenities are generally more limiting at higher difficulties. I'm leaning toward introducing them at the C tier currently.

Overall, my first impressions of this patch are that it doesn't shake things up a ton – but that might change as I play it and get a better feel for the AI & map gen changes.

Greece might also move down a notch, but that's not really based on the current patch.

 

[Esperr]

AUS strength lies in being able to pop early +6-9 campus. Seeing as how the game is so skewed towards early bonuses, this allows you to run away with games early, especially in MP. I would definitely put them in tier one after three single player games with them and two MP games. Gorgo still tier one IMO for the same reason, the early bonus lets you run away.

 

[Victoria]

As a big Vicky player I can confidently say the patch did little. The extra routes were a bonus but also a bit of a millstone and am enjoying faster pace now I have less routes. I still build both in harbour where I can get the triangle, even not, the +2 gold for being adjacent to a harbour helps.
I had a nice win on Deity with her where the redcoats just snowballed crazily and I found an exploit.
Take 3 cities and the capital for 4 new redcoats, then swap 3 of the cities for 3 others and get another 3 redcoats.

But yes current game,early attack on Russia they happily built archers in all their cities when I attacked them, but did not shoot much. It was just silly.

A couple of other games I lost, the AI is definately getting more culture and science faster, a little bit...or so it seems from a short subjective viewpoint

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

I hate to tell you this Vicky, but as a coastal-bias player, Australia is like a better England. As a TSL mostly SP, they have a better island, a remote location, and a UA that allows you to keep a very small land army and never lose a war. The coastal adjacency bonii make their coastal cities absurdly good, very early in the game. That being said, if they actually fix the Sea Dogs, I still love England... I play most of my games as Arabia (my personal #1) or England. But your former penal colony is insanely good.

 

[Chibisuke]

I have messed around with Australia a little. I think they are OP to be honest. My campuses and commercial districts are all supercharged at the beginning of the game when good adjacency bonuses are most powerful. On deity, it is pretty much guaranteed that you will be the target of many declarations of war. That means you'll get the 100% production bonus quite a lot. Again, early game that can be huge.

The free culture bomb on all pastures is awesome for early game. I haven't tried the outback stations yet but they are probably a decent mid game boost.

I haven't yet gotten to the point of considering the coastal bonuses or digger, but in my opinion the digger also seem OP. It comes at a point in the game where military conquest might otherwise slow down while you're getting to mech infantry and rocket artillery. The digger seems like a great transitional unit that will probably pretty much always have its foreign lands bonus since you're more likely fighting on other continents late game.

Right now I am thinking Australia is probably a top tier Civ, with very strong bonuses in early and late game, and decent bonuses for mid game.

 

[Ornen]

It's a little absurd to insist the extra trade routes were a 'millstone' just because they gave you more to do. They generate several points of food/production every turn, which is why they're deemed so useful. +2 gold on a district placement is laughable in the midgame; +3f+3p is very powerful. I don't think England's necessarily D tier, as they still have the unit bonus and the museum bonus. But they've definitely gotten weaker with this patch.

I think the nicest thing about Aus's housing bonus is for coastal non-river cities – it helps most in cities that don't get housing bonuses already, basically. The culture bomb feels like a weaker version of Russia's territory bonus, but that's not a bad thing. The production bonus seems very powerful, but also a bit situational. One nice thing about it, though, is that it enables you to skimp on military a little bit during peacetime, which potentially means a bigger production investment in other things, even outside of the bonus production you get on DOW. Overall, though, it's hard for me to consider Australia top tier – seems like you're exaggerating their bonuses a bit. I'm not sure if they're a good civ or a great civ yet, but I'm fairly certain they're not on the level of Sumeria/Scythia/etc.

 

[Chibisuke]

Whether Australia is as good as Sumeria or Scythia is an open question, and that will depend on just how strong the Digger is in late game in my humble opinion. I think Australia's early non-military bonuses are clearly better than those two civs though. I think in particular the fact that you can get +8 science campuses and +4 commercial districts right away means you could easily begin to outstrip them in tech and have enough cash to overwhelm them with purchase power. Then you get that social card that doubles campus adjacency bonus for example. Now you have potential +16 adjacency campuses. The upside is huge.

I haven't had a chance to experiment with the digger yet but I think it is going to be very strong. To be honest, I love Sumeria/Scythia early strength, but a superb late game unit wit no real drawbacks might be even better. As of now, we have America's Rough Riders and they are strong, but they are also not that easy to get on the field since they have no upgrade path and AT crew is a pretty effective counter to them. If digger upgrades to mech infantry for example, that would be awesome.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

I'd take Aus over those two at this point. Much more flexible.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

If digger upgrades to mech infantry for example, that would be awesome.

As far as I'm concerned, the Digger is a Infantry replacement, so not only should they upgrade to Mech Infantry, they can be pre-built as well.

I think Australia deserves at least a B tier. Bonus producion in a pinch and a powerful early bonus, and a mid-game way to increase production in flat lands. The only thing barring them from tier A is lack of early-game military capabilities, and the (apparently bugged) way mines seem to decrease appeal now.

 

[Chibisuke]

I just played a longer game with Australia. Regarding Digger, I can confirm it can be pre built and upgrades to mech inf as expected. And yes, it is a fantastic late game unit.

First of all, swordsmen have been buffed and horsemen nerfed via tech tree changes. Thus, swordsmen are a much more viable early game unit. This makes the upgrade path for the digger stronger, since fielding several swordsmen is a good strategy now.

In my last game, I fielded a pretty large army of swordsmen and knights and quickly conquered all nearby neighbors no sweat. Then that huge swordsmen army upgraded to diggers eventually with excellent promotions. Trust me, mid and late game AUS is very strong in military.

As for early game, yes their military is basically same as any other regular civ. However, don't overlook the 100% production bonus when target of DoW. It's awesome, particularly on deity. In my last game, I was stomping Arabia and Kongo and England offers friendship. I accept and focus army away from England to continue with conquest. I didn't even build walls in cities bordering England right away.

Well I'm sure you can guess what happened. As soon as my army was far enough away, England immediately back stabs and declared war. Well I was considering that that could happen so I was starting to build more troops. Once England DoWs me, I get +100% production and all those extra troops +walls are completed in half the time. Needless to say I easily defeated the sneak attack and crushed England with my new secondary army.

Seriously, if I'm playing for Maximum fun, I don't see why to choose any civ other than AUS at this point. Sumeria and Scythia are awesome for early game rush, but AUS will have a far superior game after that first 30 to 40 turns.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

Seriously, if I'm playing for Maximum fun, I don't see why to choose any civ other than AUS at this point. Sumeria and Scythia are awesome for early game rush, but AUS will have a far superior game after that first 30 to 40 turns.

I really like the Aussies, for all the reasons you mentioned. I've played Scythia and Sumeria, but never really found them fun. They are kind of one-trick ponies (although, in the case of Scythia... the heal on kill thing keeps them relevant the whole game and it's a very powerful "trick")

 

[joncnunn]

As far as I'm concerned, the Digger is a Infantry replacement, so not only should they upgrade to Mech Infantry, they can be pre-built as well.

I think Australia deserves at least a B tier. Bonus producion in a pinch and a powerful early bonus, and a mid-game way to increase production in flat lands. The only thing barring them from tier A is lack of early-game military capabilities, and the (apparently bugged) way mines seem to decrease appeal now.

Against the AI, you don't really need an early UU; a few Archers with one melee unit to take the city after it gets red-lined is sufficient for an early rush; later the archers get upgraded to the next ranged unit for the next war.

Anyway, even with the decrease in appeal it's still in God Tier; every civ suffers from the mining appeal. (That portion of the patch is a nerf to anyone seeking a late game cultural victory; not civ specific) Australia remains the only civ whose coastal cities have a massive housing capacity bonus. Australia's UI produces both food & hammers (plus 1/2 housing capacity) in Plains, Grassland, Desert, and Desert Hills with extra bonuses for both hammers & food for making triangles of them (after reaching those techs) and also being adjacency to pastures. After this UI is unlocked basically any Australian city will both grow like a weed and see a surge in hammers until housing capacity is reached. Which if the city is coastal is several population points higher than anyone else.

 

[MaximusPlatypus]

If you think Australia is C tier, casts a lot of doubt on your opinions of tiers in general. Play a couple games with them, and see the snowball potential. In the end, it's all just opinions of people on the internet.

 

[Esperr]

I think ive already said this in another thread but.....

This game is heavily skewed towards early bonus. Being able to pop an early +6-9 campus slingshots you so far ahead for so little investment, all the while you still get to play a regular game. Forget there UU, games are over by that point. Forget the outback station, it comes a little to late to be a huge factor. Many of the best civs have essentially one ability when it comes to actual competitive games, and thats fine. Being able to pull ahead so early in tech, while still being able to just play a regular game is big money, and easily puts AUS up there with Gorgo the snowball queen. On a Deity Tier list for SP they are easily top tier because the A.I is easy to coax into DOW, and the first fifty or so turns are all that really matter. In MP there are already games started with no AUS in the description because they run away to quick and there DOW ability is exploitable.

edit:If your games are lasting to where infantry matter, then were not talking about competitive anymore. Thats not some kind of dig against people and the way they play, but at that point in the game your just role playing or dragging it out for fun. In terms of making them die, the game is long over for a replaceable parts UU to matter.

 

[Chibisuke]

The trajectory of the leading civ might be set by replacable parts, but that doesn't mean nothing matters at that point. You can win more or less quickly based on what happens there. I don't shut off the game after turn 50 and declare victory, even if I'm doing very well.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Has anyone confirmed their UA triggers if a CS DoW's you because you declared war against their suzerain (like it does for Defensive Tactics civic)? If yes, Australia goes from broken to even more broken.

 

[Esperr]

The trajectory of the leading civ might be set by replacable parts, but that doesn't mean nothing matters at that point. You can win more or less quickly based on what happens there. I don't shut off the game after turn 50 and declare victory, even if I'm doing very well.

And how did you get to be the leading civ?

 

[Bobfregman]

I don't see how AUS could be anything short of God tier. Their bonus adjacency is reliable and extremely powerful. The bonus production is huge as well and provides them with a lot of versatility. Their UI isn't particularly impactful but it does provide your cities with a few extra cogs in the mid game and that's not exactly to be scoffed at. Their UU comes too late to be impactful but it is strong and may help shave a couple turns off your victory.