Civ and Leader swap.

[joncnunn]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions

 

[Magil]

I think Greece with Barbarossa as a leader is a strong new power combo. Two extra policy slots!

Ya'know, if unrestricted leaders was a thing.

 

[Amrunril]

Montezuma of England Lots of cities on other continents means lots of different luxuries benefiting extra cities. This means lots of amenities applying to extra cities and lots of extra combat strength for your fast moving navy.

Harald of England; Hojo of England Two more leaders who would do well with England's extra naval movement

Victoria of Spain a slightly different set of new continent bonuses (free units + improved trade routes and Missions)

Qin Shi Huang of France allows rushing of early game wonders with workers before the construction bonus to mid game wonders kicks in (all of them will end up generating extra tourism).

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I think Greece with Barbarossa as a leader is a strong new power combo. Two extra policy slots!

Ya'know, if unrestricted leaders was a thing.

Aren't there actually diminishing returns for having more and more policy slots? I mean, a leader with 6 slots will take the 6 best policies. A leader with 7 slots adds the 7th best policy, but that's presumably not as good as any of the first 6. A leader with 8 slots get another policy that's even worse. So each additional policy slot gets progressively less valuable.

 

[Magil]

Aren't there actually diminishing returns for having more and more policy slots? I mean, a leader with 6 slots will take the 6 best policies. A leader with 7 slots adds the 7th best policy, but that's presumably not as good as any of the first 6. A leader with 8 slots get another policy that's even worse. So each additional policy slot gets progressively less valuable.

To some degree, yes. Alternately, you can see this as having governments a full era ahead of your opponents, like having a 4-slot government at the very start of the game (letting you slot all of the policies unlocked at Code of Laws), and your governments at political philosophy have six slots. Additionally, you would be able to slot, say, a military policy in a government that wouldn't normally have one, without using wildcard slots, which could be used for other policies (like the wildcard exclusive policies).

 

[dturtle1]

The other thing is the flexibility to Max/Min either economy or Military
Barborossa of Greece with Fascism as an example has the power to go 8!!! Military Policies. That is a lot of Boni . This doesn't include the Wonder(Alambra?) that gives another military policy. If you are about get into a big war, that sounds awfully tasty . The number of known policies atm is limited but if you are at war you might as have ALL the Boni When the boni all synergise with what you are trying to achieve then it doesn't really matter if their is diminishing returns so to speak. It still is improving your odds at achieving your objective. If i had 8 Military Slots and you only have 4, assuming parity in tech and number, my army is Better and probably i will win

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The other thing is the flexibility to Max/Min either economy or Military
Barborossa of Greece with Fascism as an example has the power to go 8!!! Military Policies. That is a lot of Boni . This doesn't include the Wonder(Alambra?) that gives another military policy. If you are about get into a big war, that sounds awfully tasty . The number of known policies atm is limited but if you are at war you might as have ALL the Boni When the boni all synergise with what you are trying to achieve then it doesn't really matter if their is diminishing returns so to speak. It still is improving your odds at achieving your objective. If i had 8 Military Slots and you only have 4, assuming parity in tech and number, my army is Better and probably i will win

Actually its 10

4 Mil fascism
2 Wild Fascism
1 Mil Barbarosa
1 Wild Greece
1 mil Alhambra
1 wild Forbidden Palace

(on the other hand if a different civ has a lot of Economic/diplomatic slots....you could still lose to them because they could support a larger, higher tech army with many allies...and also have Better military policies because they have more culture)

 

[Amrunril]

Cleoprata of India: What better way of getting minority religions into your cities (assuming Civ V spread mechanics are still in place) than making yourself the most attractive trade route target on the map? This might be worth it even if you didn’t get a pile of extra gold for yourself in the process.

Hojo Tokimune of Norway: This combination sacrifices the ability to raid directly from ships in exchange for unparalleled power when it comes to actually making coastal landings.

Fredrick Barbarossa of Scythia: Trades early game rush potential for game long military superiority (bonus vs. wounded and heal on kills + extra military policy and bonus vs. city states)

Hojo Tokimune of Germany: Germany will need to build a lot of districts to take full advantage of its UA, and getting theatre districts, holy sites and encampments at half price (in addition to Hansas) should make that a lot easier.

Mvemba a Nzinga of China: Getting techs/civics faster than everyone else and trying to use them quickly to unlock future discounts sounds like it will be a lot to juggle. This makes China a perfect civ to get the benefits of religion without having to invest in founding one.

Catherine de Medeci of China: It looks like spies provide an alternate way of generating Eureka bonuses, bringing China closer to the goal of getting every tech at a 60% disount.

Theodore Roosevelt of China: Great Wall plus home continent bonus: Try to invade me, just try.

Pericles of Kongo: Bonus Great Merchants and Great Artists seem like the perfect combination with Pericles’ ability. Lots of Great Merchants give bonus envoys, which means more city state alliances and a larger culture modifier for your great works.

The more I think about swapping leaders, the more I hope it’s an option. Allowing recombination of civs and leaders would make for an effectively limitless number of possible factions (19 civs * 20 leaders = 380 combinations, and if Civ VI eventually matches V’s number of civs, that’s nearly 2,000 combinations). Obviously not all of these combinations will be as synergistic as the ones I and other posters are suggesting, but they don’t really need to be. Figuring out how to make use of non-obvious combinations is interesting in and of itself.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Pedro of Greece: Bonuses to Great Persons and the extra Wildcard slot result in extremely flexibility.

Pedro of America: Similarly flexible via Great Persons and Government Legacy Bonuses

Mvemba a Nzinga of India: Ignore religion while receiving massive bonuses from it nonetheless.

Hojo Tokimune the Aztec: Rush through the production of Districts.

Montezuma of Japan: Build extremely tall, dense cities.

Elizabeth of Spain: Receive significant military and economic bonuses for expanding to other continents.

Roosevelt of France: Unstoppable on his home continent, especially the Garde Imperiale.


After playing each of the 19 Civilizations once, my planned order of leader swapped games (so far) is:

1) Qin Shi Huang the Aztec
2) Qin Shi Huan of Egypt
3) Qin Shi Huang of France
4) Pedro of Greece
5) Fredrick Barbarossa of Greece
6) Phillip of Greece

 

[Amrunril]

Trajan of Greece: Free monuments provide an extra kick start to your already impressive early civic progress (not only is it more culture, it means you'll unlock acropolii sooner), and they save hammers to compensate for founding your cities next to isolated hills instead of on them.

Cleopatra of Rome: Double up gold bonuses for extra lucrative external trade routes. What's more, starting with roads to all your cities frees up your traders to go straight to international trade instead of building roads. This lets you benefit from Cleopatra's bonus when a flat gold bonus to each route is at its most valuable.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Qin Shi Huang of Rome: Between Builders with extra charges and Legions serving as military engineers, quickly and cheaply construct improvements all over the Roman Empire.

Barbarossa of Sumeria: Steamroll over Barbarian camps from the start for bonuses equivalent to tribal villages

Tomyris of Sumeria: Same as Barbarossa.

 

[MikalJ]

Would

Tomyris of Sumeria: Same as Barbarossa.

mean double War Carts, for insane early rush power? How would this compare with Tomyris of Egypt?

 

[Magil]

War Carts are probably heavy cavalry aren't they? Since they seem to replace the heavy chariot. If I remember right Tomyris only duplicates light cavalry.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Saladin of Sumeria: Between Ziggurats and Righteousness of the Faith, he'd be way ahead of everyone in Science.

 

[Amrunril]

Philip of Arabia: a more militaristic take on Arabia, providing a combat boost against the factions rejecting your guaranteed religion (especially strong with Mamluks) and improved inquisitors for removing the religions founded beforehand.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

My guess is that the reason backgrounds are flat background images is that they're tied to the base civilization. Thus, Trajan of America would stand in from of the White House, whereas Trajan of Norway would stand in front of the Aurora Borealis.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Pedro of Russia: More Great People using Lavras mean more territorial gains
Trajan of Russia: Cities start with Territorial gains and a Monument

 

[Magil]

Pedro of Russia: More Great People using Lavras mean more territorial gains
Trajan of Russia: Cities start with Territorial gains and a Monument

Anyone would be better for Russia than Peter!

Well, except maybe Mvemba a Nzinga...

 

[Amrunril]

Peter of Rome: aggressive early expansion (at the expense of campuses and theater squares) will result in a temporary tech/civic deficit, and Rome's external trade routes will provide you with not only with culture and science to overcome that but also with bonus gold for passing through your own cities.

Saladin of Russia: discounted worship buildings should synergize effectively with discounted districts to put them in.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Gorgo of France: Earn Great General points and Culture in victory, and further Culture from the Chateau