CIV III game mechanics: democracy lessons from trajedy!!!

[Kaenash]

Is it possible to actually make positive values to war-weariness that will reduce it in Civilization?

as example:

A beloved leader is killed in combat. IF the country declares war or fights that civilizations units HAPPINESS is actually increased.

As an example, imagine Patton or McCaurthur had fallen in battle. JFK being shot. etc.


example #2

Pearl Harbour: IF democracy is attacked, then declares war without shifting government, on the following turn and every turn after for X number of turns the happiness actually increases and war weariness is a + factor. This represents an increase in patriotism and sort of a revenge factor.

Eventually people get over it (as a whole), but for a while they are actually unhappy if you do not attack back.

example #3

Sep 11: IF you apply a similar rule as #1 and #2, then you can see around you, college kids to old people to just about any body in between has suddenly sprouted an american flag. The equivilant of "We love the President Day".

How can we abstract that?

 

[dannyevilcat]

As I understand it, you don't suffer war weariness immediately, so that kinda works realistically... Deaths' of great leaders etc. when the war has dragged on for some time often has a demoralizing effect. Imagine if MacArthur's first step back on Philippean soil had been onto a landmine...

Even if such bonuses applyed, it would likely help the troops, not the average citizen back home.

Last thing-- revenge factors these days are pretty poor. Univerity kids protesting over innocent Afghan victims... Democracies have no stomach for war IMO. WW2 didn't have the same media coverage we have today.

Maybe my post is too political. I don't know...

 

[Another Desk]

Doesn't the manual say that war weariness will actually go down if you are the attacked part in a war? That will create less unhappy people, at least. I think I've seen this in my own games. Kind of the effect seen during the bombings of London in WW2.

As for creating HAPPY people for a war? Isn't that a little far fetched? The people in London certainly weren't extra happy during the blitz. They just didn't panic the way the Nazis had hoped.

The grim, revenge-thirsty willingness to kill lots is hardly the same thing as happiness. Neither is the refusal to bow down to an enemy who seems to be stronger at the moment. You still like life better when the war is over.

Neighbours, children, friends and very possibly you yourself are put in danger of death and injury. Not to mention the atrocities committed during wars. You can't really see it in this kind of game, but we'll just have to assume that some thing goes on behind the scenes. Things like death camps, torture, raping and children melting in firestorms.

 

[EvanCiv]

"Doesn't the manual say that war weariness will actually go down if you are the attacked part in a war? "

Not if you are attacked - when someone declares war on you ("perhaps because it relieves pre-war uncertainty and tension").

 

[Endureth]

I play with a democracy and I've noticed a few things...

- If you start a war with anyone for any reason your people will have an absolute fit. The turn you declare war, you need to go to every city, make sure EVERYONE is happy. Use entertainers and think Bob Hope and Elvis.

- All through out any war you need to keep a constant eye on your citizens. You will have to keep making more and more entertainers as your people become more and more weary. If you don't keep up with this you will notice a lot of civil disorder.

- The only thing Democracy and Women's Suffrage really does to combat this is to slow down the rate your citizens become unhappy while at war.

- After so much war, your people will eventually get fed up with it and you can easily be thrown into Anarchy! That sucks, it means you've been at war too long. Try not to let this happen. In a Democracy you need to keep your wars about 20 turns or shorter, which is all you should need to take out a civ.

- If you are attacked, it's a little different. What I noticed is that the same rules apply as above but you are allowed about a 10 turn "allowance" to retaliate as you will. After the 10 turns you start the 20 turn cycle of depression and civil disorder bs.

- Because of all this war weariness and the effect of using a progresive number of entertainers you simply MUST mobilize your army when at war. This will help to balance the weariness and the production will allow you to fight a sustained war. I't possible to start a war owning nothing more than 2 defensive units and 1 artillery per city and dominate. Democracy can produce that fast when mobilized.

I might write up a little strategy guide for playing a Democratic Government because there is so much more to it.

Endureth

 

[Sam_Catchem]

I find the best way to wage war in a democracy with lesser problems is to stage the war. What I mean is to have quick wars that you take a couple of cities and then sue for peace. Then repeat. However, if you get dragged into a World War, this is not going to work very well. I find that it works better then to switch to Republic. At least so far..I could be wrong. I am playing in Monarch and trying to get passed all the crap I did in Warlord/Regent.

 

[Kaenash]

>The grim, revenge-thirsty willingness to kill lots is hardly the same thing as happiness.


If you drive around our town (Orlando) and I am sure its this way in many others, there are signs, billboards, flags, and all kinds of stuff because of the "riteousness" of this war.

I am sure that you can not point to every act of war and say "See, the public should be thrilled because they were attacked first and their government retaliated".

However, I am also as certain there are circumstances that are common to the SEP11 induced War against afghanistan that would be to other situations where an "we love the president day" affect occurs.

More people are having babies and getting married, enlistment is up, and the public is supporting an imbecile president because they think he is a "John Wayne" type.

That sounds like "We love the president day" affect.