CIV - iks!

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think, Albow, that Democracy will be available to those who pursue the tech, with some vigour, in the early age. Whilst other civs-with other priorities-will probably get it MUCH later-just as it was in the Real World.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Meleager]

I wonder what the different civic options will be exactly. Based on CivRules and My Imagination (italics are my thoughts, ? could be in another area):

Goverment: Democracy, Toltalitarianism, Communism, Monarchy, Despot
Legal: Free Speach(?), ...
Labour: Slavory, Conscription(?), Emancipation,
Economy: Free Market, Enviroment(?), Taxes, State Run Economy,...
Religion: Religious Tollerance, Nationhood(?), Non-religious Tollerance, ...

I can think of that many more. I put nationhood in Religion because it boosts cultural output and i put enviroment into economy cause I couldn't think of anywhere else. Also the Goverment ones might end up being ideas rather than specific goverment types.

 

[Meleager]

Could you imagine:
A communism with free speech, free market and religious tollerance?

 

[Albow]

Hi Aussie,

I'd be happy with that - as long as an early demo then gave a nice advantage, so that it was worth doing... in my mind- Athens I guess ...

I've also started to wonder if the real options will be 4x4x4x4 - I say this because, I think one 'option' will be the default no advanatges/disadvantages "option" - ergh!

 

[PriestOfDiscord]

...

Those are some good ideas, but I think your choices for government are too specific. After all, "communist" countries like the former USSR were Toltalitarian. It was economic policies that made them stand out from a run in the mill dictatorship. Just as the (legal, I guess) nature of serfdom seperated most monarchies from the rest of the Toltalitarian pack.

My guesses for Government type are:
One Ruler/Autocrat/Rule by Devine Right - Absolute power in one man. From ancient monarchies all the way to Hitler.
Oligarchy/Aristocracy/Rule by Privledged Elite - Depending on other factors can be anyone from the landed and wealthy, the priest class, or a communist party politiburo.
Representitive Democracy - The slime you vote into office year after year. Depending on other civic choices the amount of people allowed to vote could range from a few thousand white landowners to the 50 million people who actually live in your nation.
Direct Democracy - From the hedonists of the ancient Roman Republic to the hedonists of the modern state of California, this is where the people are the lawmakers and vote on proposals.
A fifth choice I can't think of - hmmmmm.

I'm really stuck on how to make that 5 choices. Obviously one of my previous ones needs to be split up, but I figured those were pretty decent groupings. Oh well, I've been wrong before.

 

[Meleager]

I've also started to wonder if the real options will be 4x4x4x4 - I say this because, I think one 'option' will be the default no advanatges/disadvantages "option" - ergh!

This is probobally right. If it is then your ([EDIT]: PriestOfDiscord's) ideas could be right. But then I wonder what they would call the fifth nutral option. They can just call it nutral. "Hey I live in a country with a nutral goverment." (Hey that might make sence).

Maybe it will be called anarchism (note: anarchism is a real form of goverment where people believe that all forms of goverment are flawed and try to live as a community without any real rules. They way it is used in civ is not really correct. It can work - but only with few people).

 

[PriestOfDiscord]

This is probobally right. If it is then your ([EDIT]: PriestOfDiscord's) ideas could be right. But then I wonder what they would call the fifth nutral option. They can just call it nutral. "Hey I live in a country with a nutral goverment." (Hey that might make sence).

Maybe it will be called anarchism (note: anarchism is a real form of goverment where people believe that all forms of goverment are flawed and try to live as a community without any real rules. They way it is used in civ is not really correct. It can work - but only with few people).

That actually would make a lot of sense. It could be a default setting that always happens for a turn after any major change is made(like to a new state religion or religious tolerance civics choice). I like it!

 

[Albow]

Actually, the default option would be something like Tribal government - government in small clan groups etc ... the default economy will be "simple" or "subsistence" which will give no advantages, the default labour setting would be something like 'individual' or 'unorganised', again, no adv and what you start with ... legal could be something like 'primitive' and base religion would be 'none' I guess (seeing as you have to use Science to invent Religion hehehehehe, I'm surprised that this hasn't been flamed yet with hate mail from the religious types ...

 

[Meleager]

Hey I am a religious type. Darn those civ people!
Just kidding.

 

[PriestOfDiscord]

...and base religion would be 'none' I guess (seeing as you have to use Science to invent Religion hehehehehe, I'm surprised that this hasn't been flamed yet with hate mail from the religious types ...

Nah, state sponsored or enforced atheism is a pretty recent concept. I'm not sure there was a whole country that was officially non-believing before the Soviet Union. These would be my guesses(Again, I could be completely wrong and furthermore have no idea what these choices would actually do. They just seem like good groupings)

Animism/Primitivism/etc. - This is where you think every rock, tree, and even blade of grass has a spirit. Tribes almost always start out like this before they figure out specific names to give out to these spiritual entities. Then they become...
Polytheist - Still before the 7 religions that will last you through the main period of the game. Here there may still be hundreds if not thousands of gods, but they all have specific names and are arranged in a certain order in the holy flowchart(tm). No need to pick a state religion because every different group of people has a different group of oddball deities.
Monotheist - Choose your state religion and go to work killing people who foolishly worship in a different style! This is probably going to last you through most of the game, until one of the final two choices...
Atheist - The choice of the communist. Here you get to kill and discriminate against anybody who is worshipping at all.
Secularist - Just a touch more humane. You might still have a state religion, or you might not. More importantly, nobody cares. Organized religion plays a small role in this society.

My tongue is deep in my cheek here, so I hope I don't offend anyone of faith.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Could you imagine:
A communism with free speech, free market and religious tollerance?

Depends on what you mean by communism. A Command economy? A Welfare state? Communism as it existed in the Soviet Union is a combination of many things. Communism in the game would probably refer to an economic system, so it could probably allow free speach and religious tolerance, but free market would be an alternate choice on the list.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, Albow, I feel certain that your civ will start off with certain 'preset' civics at the start of the game. These might be identical for all civs, or may differ depending on the civ and/or leader you choose. However, there is nothing to suggest whether this takes away a choice from each category, or is a default along with the 5 choices per category. Plus, I feel certain that we will be able to add categories AND choices into the game!
Lastly, though, even if they DO take away from the 5 choices in each category, that still leaves us with 4*4*4*4*4-thats 4 to the power of 5 choices. Thats still over 1000 different combinations of civics for tailoring our governments (hell of a lot more than the 5 which come with Civ1-3 !)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Cataphract887]

actually,all those choices wont be enabled at once,and by the time you get to the future choices,the others will be concrete(since you based your play on your bonuses),like in SMAC,theres really only 3 rows cause the last one,that even though the bonuses are crazy on them,you can kill the others or be killed with little effort.

 

[Albow]

If its anything like SMAC, then there won't be 1000+ options ... but I take your point, even 4x4x4x4 is still heaps better than 3 govts ;-)

I await further information ... drool ...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

But we KNOW, beyond a doubt, that there are 5 Civics categories-Religion, Government, Economy, Legal and Labour. Even if there are only 4 real CHOICES per category, then it is 4*4*4*4*4, or 1024 different combinations.
Of course, these choices will be available at different times of the game-but that could be said for civ3 governments too (where you have to wait until the END of the Ancient age to get even a SINGLE government choice!!)

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Meleager]

It seems there is some stuff still from E3 that civRules hasent seen yet. IGN has a lot including filters for the main screen and...

In the labor area, for instance, you can choose to allow slavery in your empire. This means that you'll be able to sacrifice population to hasten the completion of improvements. If you make the jump to serfdom, you'll have to pay to hurry improvements but you'll find that mines are much easier to make. The emancipation option under labor doesn't give you any specific benefits but it adds to the general unhappiness all other unemancipated civs suffer.

Check out the link: http://pc.ign.com/articles/616/616871p1.html

 

[Meleager]

Interesting... Emancipation does nothing except make your enemies unhappy.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, Meleager, that is pretty old news-and I doubt that Emancipation will ONLY have that effect.
That said, though, I would have preferred to see some different categories for Civics-as well as different choices within each category (though I hope that, with civics in, it is merely an issue of making the changes in the editor!)
For instance, I like the idea of a Government civic-obviously-but would then like to see some kind of 'philosophical bent' behind each government-as a seperate civic category. For instance, you choose the democracy civic, but are you a socialist democracy, or a capitalist democracy or even a militarist democracy. So Philosophy might be Theocratic, Beurocratic, Militarist, Socialist, Capitalist, Environmentalist, Fascist and Technocratic (though, admittedly, Socialist and Capitalist (free market) might be best dealt with under economy and Theocratic under Religion). Then, rather than a mere Legal category, what about a Legal AND Rights category. So the Legal category deals with the extent of law and order in the society-such as Capital Punishment and Prohibition. Rights deal with individual freedoms within the society, from none to universal. A military category would be good too, outlining the type of army your nation has-from civilian levies to Professional Standing armies. Labour, Religion and the Economy sound good as they are so far, though.
Anyway, just a thought !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Meleager]

Yess I knew that emancipation makes people unhappy... i just didn't think that was all.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I am just saying that I don't think thats all it does-I think they're holding back on us !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.