Civ Switching - Will it prevent you from buying Civ 7?

Civ Switching - Will it prevent you from buying Civ 7?


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I think it's an intriguing mechanic and I'll be interested in seeing how it plays out.

I hope there's different game modes that can be applied - a historically 'accurate' play mode where you can only progress to related civilisations, a limited game mode where only certain options available and a anything goes where every civ in the next era is open to everyone.


Approach it with an open mind and see how it affects the game before making a decision.
 
I was going to buy it anyway, but this makes me more excited for the possibilities. The two arguments I’ve seen against it seem to be 1. “Humankind did something similar badly” and 2. “I want to start as Assyria and take Assyria to Mars.”

For the first one, it seems like HK did a lot of stuff badly, and it already looks like Firaxis is doing this particular thing better, so I can’t hold HK’s failures against it.

For the second, I don’t understand why that’s a sticking point, but everybody’s got their own things, and I respect that. Hopefully Firaxis or a modded will set it up so that you can keep your starting civ’s name and kit colors through all three ages if you so desire, since that seems like a simple solution that would quell this whole “controversy.”
 
Sorry for the tangent, but what news was this?
I'm not sure about an actual news source but the fact that 2K is very focused on consoles....how many console games have robust mod tools? I think we can can Civ7 CivRev3 really....
 
I really like civ switching. Yet, I can't choose any option, because I won't buy the game just because of this. I'll wait with my decision to buy it until I know more about the game. I'm sure I'll buy it eventually anyway, but I'm not sure if it is important enough for me to have it right when it releases. It will boil down to considering whether paying full price for a buggy and out of balance mess of a game (see civ IV-VI on release) to play it as soon as possible, or waiting a few months to have a better and cheaper game.
I'll preorder mostly because I'm working now and there's no guarantee that I'll be working in February, so it's more convenient for me to pay now. But I do also want to see more before I preorder (even though I basically know I will anyway).

I'm not sure about an actual news source but the fact that 2K is very focused on consoles....how many console games have robust mod tools? I think we can can Civ7 CivRev3 really....
So in other words, it's an assumption based on no evidence being spread as "news." :huh:
 
I'm indifferent to the mechanic itself, but cautious about Civ 7 for some other reasons, some of which are indirectly related to it: ie the increased number of civs meaning they all feel like a lot of sameiness (ie same different graphics and different currency/adjacency bonus). The civ switching mechanic is definitely not gonna be make or break for me though: I'm someone who picks civs because they are fun to play, not out of any sense of nationalism/play as my country or the like.
 
There’s no news about this. No clue what the other poster is talking about. And there are plenty games on console and PC that still have vibrant PC modding.
I'm strictly a Civ gamer, do the games you refer to have cross platform play once you start modding the PC game? I'm suspecting not and that would run against 2K's pretty clear direction that they want cross play MP on day one. I can certainly say that the current MP community would be fine with throwing cross play with consoles under the bus....I doubt 2K shareholders would agree with us lol
 
I'm strictly a Civ gamer, do the games you refer to have cross platform play once you start modding the PC game? I'm suspecting not and that would run against 2K's pretty clear direction that they want cross play MP on day one.
There’s already a clear framework for modding MP to avoid these issues: Civ 6 won’t let you start multiplayer matches unless everyone has the same mods.

No problem, no issues. Modding can exist in Civ 7.
 
I think the Title is self explanatory. Civ Switching Mechanism is obviously the most discussed feature since they released the opening trailer. Although I acctually do like some of the ideas of Civ 7 (especially the less micro management part), this mechanism is a deal breaker for me. I also have little hope, that Firaxis can or even want to fix this. The presented mechanics (collect 3 horses to be eligible to turn Rome into Mongolia etc.) sound like being directly adopted from a generic board game, and do not represent the simulation aspect of the Civ series at all, in my opinion. I wonder how you guys see that, are you still planning on buying this game?
compared to AI switching from "leading their civilization to stand the test of time" to "trying to play as human to win a boardgame" after civ4, the civ switching mechanism is a drop of water in the ocean, for me immersion in civ was broken long ago.

but I do get why people are upset if it was the last drop for them, welcome being me years ago :D

don't worry, you'll heal.

the only deal-breaker for me would be the absence of modding, but I've no reasons to think this will happen.
 
Ah, right, I get that. Is it a question of mindset then: you're losing your Civ rather than evolving it?

There used to be very long arguments on this forum about whether the Roman Empire, Byzantine Empire, and HRE were the same civilization or different ones. This mechanic makes the question obsolete: you start as the Classical Romans, and then you choose to become either the HRE Romans or the Byzantine Romans. Granted this wont work for every era change and every civilization (not all have a clear antecedent or successor), but there does seem to be real effort to provide a "historical continuity" option at every step.
Evolving your civ make sense, but it also make sense to have the option to overcome the challenges that historically X or Y civilization could not. A lot of people would be more receptive and whiling to buy the game if we are allowed to keep the identiy of your civilization. Some would say "the point is to change", yes but you can change without be at a foreing invasion and cultural replacement level, there are also civilizations that changed just at religious, ideological(goverment) of even just at administrative(dynastic) level.
From a gameplay perspective religion and government "revolutions" type could be as significative as cultural revolutions. Even historicaly civ like Japan would likely have multiple versions (no way Firaxis would waste Samurai and Zero fighters) that certainly is not at the level of Aztec to Mexico.

Now, of course people could want some goverment and religion customization, so this could be still allowed. We could have cultural, religious and political (goverment) customization, just that when you pick a revolution centered in one of those aspects you gain more "extreme" uniques related to that focus, while the others two aspects are free to lesser customization. For example you can as England do a Communist revolution and get a lot of uniques related to it, or instead revolution from England to America and just pick a lesser Social ideology (Liberal and National are also options).
It is posible to build a set of religion and government focused revolutions that provide common uniques, for example what if as Roman I pick the "Holy" revolution and get uniques like Monastery, Inquisitor and the Holy Warrior that for the visuals of european cultures looks like a crusader. These way we could roleplay as an actual "Holy Roman Empire" doing some crusading around.

Well even the "civs used to be interesting in just a couple of eras" argument is quite ironic when now we are going to have more uniques than ever before, but look at the Maya we are going to get, a lot of uniques are very redundant about jungle to gain science+culture. Why instead of put those many repetitive unique elements in the ancient era dont distribute them as more significatives ones all along the ages? And yes the Maya are more than classical mayas, the post-Classic Yucatec and Kiche, the last peten kingdom lasted until late 17th century , then the 19th century maya Cruzoob state and even now the Zapatistas in Chiapas.
 
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There’s already a clear framework for modding MP to avoid these issues: Civ 6 won’t let you start multiplayer matches unless everyone has the same mods.

No problem, no issues. Modding can exist in Civ 7.
Civ6 is not a good example, it doesn't have cross MP play with the console games.... Sure modding can exist in Civ7, but not likely cross platform....and if you can't do cross platform modding will 2K even allow modding the game?
 
I was going to buy it anyway, but this makes me more excited for the possibilities. The two arguments I’ve seen against it seem to be 1. “Humankind did something similar badly” and 2. “I want to start as Assyria and take Assyria to Mars.”

For the first one, it seems like HK did a lot of stuff badly, and it already looks like Firaxis is doing this particular thing better, so I can’t hold HK’s failures against it.

For the second, I don’t understand why that’s a sticking point, but everybody’s got their own things, and I respect that. Hopefully Firaxis or a modded will set it up so that you can keep your starting civ’s name and kit colors through all three ages if you so desire, since that seems like a simple solution that would quell this whole “controversy.”
For the first point I agree with you that I think Firaxis would do it better, so that's a non-issue for me.

As for the second point well, that just happens to be the reason that I've loved to play Civ. If I wanted to play a game where I could switch my people I would have bought and played Humankind.
I'd be less annoyed if this was an optionable game mode, just like how most of the fantasy stuff were in Civ 6. But that's not the case and I don't necessarily like to be forced to play as the Greeks only in the first stage, or America in the last stage of the game.

Point for Humankind, at least, that you could keep a civ that you started with all game.
 
I thought Civ6 was pretty great on release and that R&F was generally a step backwards (though GS was great). Civ5 was horrible on release, though. Honestly, fixing Civ5 and generally making a great game in Civ6 is why I'm willing to trust Ed Beach, even if some of the designs make me hesitant on first glance.

It's hard to say right now. If there's a halfway sane progression offered (Rome -> England -> USA) it might be tolerable. If BS is forced, then not.

But there are many other cool games I have to play anyway.

The main point is - why do I even have to discuss it? There are so many good games, I'll just buy the one that delivers exactly what I want.

Moderator Action: Edited to comply with site language rules without change of meaning, leif
 
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Civ6 is not a good example, it doesn't have cross MP play with the console games....
What is it about cross-platform that prevents a message with red text informing you the match can’t start because all players don’t have the same mods :confused:
 
It's hard to say right now. If there's a halfway sane progression offered (Rome -> England -> USA) it might be tolerable.
I have little doubt there will be more or less reasonable progressions for Europe and East Asia from the start; other regions will hopefully get better over time...
 
Point for Humankind, at least, that you could keep a civ that you started with all game.
And it was as boring and bland as it could.

I really like the system as is, however I absolutely see the merit in they designing a fun flavourful way of (to use a Humankind term) transcend your civ into the next era, I think that's the kind of mechanics and options I would love to see added later on expansion, and done right: access to civ specific crisis, extra quarters, civics or units. and make it a real challenge to do so. Rome could survive the crisis of the third century and oficially unlock "The Roman Empire" on exploration, or Egypt get a "New Kingdom" set of civics, etc.

But Im fine if for now we only got civ switching, and later they do transcending right, I think there is a lot of blown out of proportion reaction, but Firaxis should still take into account feedback and see what interesting stuff they can do with it.

I can admit, going a full plathrough 3 eras as the same civ, with tailor made crisis and extra challenge would be fun. (but again, I'd rather they do it right, later on)
 
And it was as boring and bland as it could.
This. Humankind was flatly a bland, forgettable game. Even on Endless speed, you didn't play as any given civ long enough to feel attached to it. Even if I have concerns for the concept itself, I'm not concerned that FXS will bungle it as badly as Amplitude did. (And I loved Amplitude's former games.)
 
I don't think the intended interpretation is "Your entire Civ and it's people are dead or conquered, you're playing the new rulers now." I think it's more you started on a river and built some cool Pyramid shaped buildings (Egypt in Antiquity), then you got really big into horses and postal networks (switched to Mongolia) and finally your culture just absolutely loves a party (Brazil for the Modern Age).

Who hasn't gone through a Mongolia phase? I remember as a teenager my parents got real concerned I was practicing horse-mounted archery all the time instead of studying, but I grew out of it.
 
What is it about cross-platform that prevents a message with red text informing you the match can’t start because all players don’t have the same mods :confused:
You are missing the entire point here. Consoles have never supported modding, so as soon as you mod the PC game you can no longer play with consoles. And I suspect 2K doesn't want that mess and will either not allow modding or severely limit it...
 
Who hasn't gone through a Mongolia phase? I remember as a teenager my parents got real concerned I was practicing horse-mounted archery all the time instead of studying, but I grew out of it.
My neighbors got really sick of the throat singing and pillaging.

Consoles have never supported modding
Depending on the game, consoles have supported modding for well over a decade now.
 
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