civ1 GOTM?

[GoldBerg]

...
i thought maybe i should introduce myself a bit.
at first IM ABSOLUTLY INTERESSTED IN THAT GOTWHATEVER.
i play civ since its existing, sometimes with some longer periods but 6-8 games a year is the minimum. so if i should guess i would say i play this game for over 12 years or so. and trying civ2 - civxx only brought me back to my roots of gaming

same here.

... ...
im on my second try now, no on my third (in the second i ruled the world in 2080BC) and its not so much fun if the only thing u do is to make around with settlers 4000 years.

depends on your playing style.
different players, different goals.

i'm most interested in terraforming
build a city where it looks good
fits into infrastructure or defense...

others 'travel' around the world with a diplomat and a tireme,
raiding all huts for science, units and cities (savegame 'cheat', if it's just '50' gold or barbarians) and take the first cavalry to conquer all continents (cities vs. savegame 'cheat')

... ...
this prince game is the first game since about 7 or 8 years i did not play on emperor. so for me not only the duration till 1750AC is a bit boring, also the difficulty.

i like how fast AI tribes grow, expand, gain gold and develop science at EMPEREOR LEVEL.
i don't like at EMPEREOR that i have to savegame cheat to be victorious with a battleship against a barbarian diplomat at 'HiLLS'...

... ...
I CAN ALSO LIFE WITH PRINCE ...

maybe 2 total different goals with the same LEVEL ('PRiNCE')
1. goal of the GOTQ (like you did)
CONQUER THE WORLD (as fast as possible).

2. goal
maximus # of english in 1500 AD

?

see - that's 'finetuning'.
let some people play the scenario first
to see what make sense with that scenario.

i did test the scene with empereor where
the highest number of 'english' in 1750 AD would make sense
because of the difficulty to 'conquer everything' 'til 1750 AD even for (very) skilled players without too much obvious cheating.

...
i use the settler cheat ( by the way weeks ago i found on that page that this is a cheat/ bug. i always thought thats a feature of the game!!)
and of course, i think as everybody does, im saving from time to time and if something bad happens i reload (maybe for the fact, as i had today, that barbarians take a city of mine) so i belief thats not realy cheating. in the result its just like playing the game fifty times and just showing the best one.

exactly.
if you ever did start with the settler cheat
you won't 'forget about it'.
i settler cheat automatically (can't stop this),
for me this is a 'feature of the game' too.

in dangerous situations i automatically savegame
and if the result is not satisfying i stop, close, reload
and 'once again'...

as i wrote in the
SPACERACE CONTEST
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113563

the reason(s) to name these cheats is
that those cheats are not visible (just waterbridging, of course )
you just might guess that some contestants/opponents did use the savegame cheat or settler cheat, but that's all...
so everyone may use these cheats - if you don't, you may lose -
don't come around here complaining: 'i do not cheat, blah blah blah...'
you have to savegame cheat, settler-one-turn cheat , maybe waterbridge...
Period.

 

[GoldBerg]

i take this from EARTH2 thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=147603
over here...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3650959&postcount=39

... ...
It's good enough to me to start a thread and say "Here's my last game, saved in 4000BC. It was really good. My outcome was.... Play it and post yours!"

agree.
(but) that outcome should be listed as SAVE GAMES,
that's all - otherwise you will get des-interest or doubts (in best cases) -
we can 'pretend everything', you know?

If we have to have an official GOTM with rules and such, then we need to set it at a moderate difficulty.

maybe we should start every GOTM / GOTQ related thread here
with
something like GOTQ 2006/1 for the first game of 2006?
with april 2006
there will be another game
GOTQ 2006/2 ... and so on to keep things in order?

GOTQ 2006/1 | What about the aztecs... ...?
GOTQ 2006/2 | Suggestions for GOTQ 2006/2
GOTQ 2006/1 | Result Thread
GOTQ 2006/3 | ...

if (there are) enough GOTQ 2007/1
and so on... threadstarts here at forum
the civfanatics moderation
will surely install a GOTM / GOTQ subforum here...?

... ...
We could actually have 2 GOTQ games per quarter: Prince and Emperor (for the average and master players).

the problem will be the specification of the possible goal(s) of those 2 games.
if it always leads into such confusion/trouble like we did see here... ... ...

I don't know what kind of people we have on here,

skilled civDOS players, rocket scientists, programmers, lunatics.

but I've never cheated in Civ. I've never cheated in any game except to get past a bug that made the game impossible to complete by the rules. I would expect that if one loves playing Civ so much that they are still here in the Civ1 forum, then one probably doesn't cheat on Civ1. ... ...

i doubt anybody here would be able to win regularily at empereor level without settler and savegame cheat(s) -
it's 'into flesh and blood' after 13 years playing civDOS.

 

[akaneda]

the problem will be the specification of the possible goal(s) of those 2 games.
if it always leads into such confusion/trouble like we did see here... ... ...

i got an idea to that problem. a simple poll would clear the fog. but more to that later in the evening.

and to the style of playing: i always rule the complete card/ world latest ad 0 AC no matter which difficulty its not so hard if u played enough games (maybe about 1 thousand!!)

 

[GoldBerg]

i got an idea to that problem. a simple poll would clear the fog. but more to that later in the evening.

when you look at all questions, suggestions and so on here you will need ~20 POLLS for that 4 people who show really interest to get confirmed everything you will need at ruleset, modus etc.
it's maybe easier
simply to discuss at all (although it's a pain in the *** here)?

... ...style of playing: i always rule the complete card/ world latest ad 0 AC no matter which difficulty its not so hard if u played enough games (maybe about 1 thousand!!)

o.k.
NO 'CONTEST' here will be suitable for you and people like carniflex, kirilov and pikachu and and and.. o.k.?
you're all OVER THiS civDOS game.
you don't need to play it anymore.
somebody should program a new, far harder version with INSANE EMPEREOR level for people like you.

we can fix a map
where you all will s*ck
(if you wish)
.
..
...
....
.....
EMPEREOR level
you start on a very small island of mountains,
just 2 grains of food.
one hill square the possibility to build a village at seaside
and you have to build a diplo first and can afford at max. a tireme
to 'go outside' with that 1 diplo and that 1 tireme.

when you come to the first continent(s)
with your diplo and tireme
there are highcultures
(no pyramid (destroyed)
and
no huts left on the map)
equipped with battleships, bombers, armor, nuclear,
full railroad infrastructure
up to the 128 units level per tribe
to 'welcome you' -
ALL at communist goverment,
ALL at Future Tech 1

(some levels later you will see
unrecoverable pollution (= civDOS game bug
at a certain level of future techs to 1 tribe )
all over the map,

a few turns after this
a big flood from pollution warming / pole melting all over the planet / map
(all other tribes' cities are build on hills, with irrigated hills - to save them from flooding )

every single one of them -
in ~3800 BC (or 1900 AD to make it 'a little more interesting'? )

interested?

 

[Pikachu]

and to the style of playing: i always rule the complete card/ world latest ad 0 AC no matter which difficulty its not so hard if u played enough games (maybe about 1 thousand!!)

That’s great, but since you are that good, why do you want to cheat? I understand why people want to cheat when they need to do it to win, but why do people want to cheat if they find the game too easy anyway? Why make it even easier by cheating?

In this GOTQ the Zulus destroyed two of my cities and took gunpowder in the process. This was not because I didn’t defend my cities properly, but because the Zulus were lucky. They beat my forces against the odds. Of course that was a little frustrating, but I enjoyed preparing for the counterattack, re-conquering my land and finally attacking the Zulus on their own soil to get my revenge. This was the most fun part of my game. Reloading to let my forces destroy the initial Zulu invasion before they could do any harm would have taken most of that fun away from me.

Why would anybody want to reload away the fun?

 

[akaneda]

when you look at all questions, suggestions and so on here you will need ~20 POLLS for that 4 people who show really interest to get confirmed everything you will need at ruleset, modus etc.
it's maybe easier
simply to discuss at all (although it's a pain in the *** here)?

i think its not so hard, i for myself found just a few numbers of questions. i will add them. maybe it works, maybe not. but of course its worth to try

o.k.
NO 'CONTEST' here will be suitable for you and people like carniflex, kirilov and pikachu and and and.. o.k.?
you're all OVER THiS civDOS game.
you don't need to play it anymore.
somebody should program a new, far harder version with INSANE EMPEREOR level for people like you.

we can fix a map
where you all will s*ck
(if you wish)
.
..
...
....
.....

ok ur right not everybody invested so many time in that game, or did even want to. its not the point that i say its to easy, i just prefer a harder level. if not its ok to me.
u say i should be of that game maybe. civ 3 and 4 are harder propably, but the classical is more fun. maybe i should just lay more wariness in may words in here.
but there is always one winning and the rest is not, thats what the game and a competition is for. its not that i want to blame any1 a loser or stuff. just wanted to present my results, because everybody can reach that i belief. YES EVEN WITHOUT "CHEATING"!!

 

[akaneda]

That’s great, but since you are that good, why do you want to cheat? I understand why people want to cheat when they need to do it to win, but why do people want to cheat if they find the game too easy anyway? Why make it even easier by cheating?

.
.
.
.

Why would anybody want to reload away the fun?

first of all, everything as i already said i do when i "cheat" is to reload if something realy bad happens or the settler-cheat. but there is a point besides. in a normal game i build not even one square of irrigation only roads to move my units faster.

never the less i think u can see the settler cheat as a feature of the game if u want (and i did for a long period of time). sure if its part of the competition i will use the cheats more consequently, but at home just for fun there is no use to for me!!!

 

[akaneda]

and after all that the POLL i suggested:

please all answer that questions as fast as possible and post ur answers here


a.) did u already play the GOTM/GOTQ?

b.) will u play the GOTM/GOTQ in the future?

c.) which difficulty lvl do u prefer? please make a list from which u prefer most to less!

d.) do u like games that last till a specific year? if yes which one would u prefer?

e.) which goals for the game would u prefer (spaceship, complete conquest, population, whole tech tree, ...)? make a list ...

f.) do u cheat when just playing for yourself ( which ones)?

g.) would u rather say competition with or without cheating?

h.) which name would u suggest for the thread (i propose that question, because i just found the gotm by accident)

thats all and please answer them as fast as possible. of course i will post the results!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

and of course my answers:

a.) I did

b.) and i will!!

c.)
1. emperor
2. king
3. prince

d.) dont like that, or just as short as possible!!

e.)
1. conquest
2. spaceship
3. techtree

f.) yes i do ( settler)

g.) i would say lets cheat, because u can never proof that u did not, the rest is for yourself to do it or not!

h.) "GOT(whatever) - here insert the actual goal COMPETITION ( i mention that, just because i feel it should have a more clear and easy name. i never heard of "GOTM" before ( yes im a noob)

 

[Pikachu]

first of all, everything as i already said i do when i "cheat" is to reload if something realy bad happens or the settler-cheat.

I think that the really bad stuff that happens is a part of the game. It is what makes it unpredictable and fun.

and after all that the POLL i suggested:

please all answer that questions as fast as possible and post ur answers here


a.) did u already play the GOTM/GOTQ?

b.) will u play the GOTM/GOTQ in the future?

c.) which difficulty lvl do u prefer? please make a list from which u prefer most to less!

d.) do u like games that last till a specific year? if yes which one would u prefer?

e.) which goals for the game would u prefer (spaceship, complete conquest, population, whole tech tree, ...)? make a list ...

f.) do u cheat when just playing for yourself ( which ones)?

g.) would u rather say competition with or without cheating?

h.) which name would u suggest for the thread (i propose that question, because i just found the gotm by accident)

a) Yes

b) Yes

c)
1) King
2) Prince
3) Emperor

d) Yes, but only if the specific year is earlier than the time I would normally win the game. I prefer score, I guess.

e) Spaceship is my favorite, but I would like to have varying goals from game to game. Variety is good

f) No, except that I set the luxury slider to 100% just before I win and occasionally I launch a space ship with 0% chance of success. And I use nukes. I don’t know if those count as cheats.

g) I prefer no cheating.

h) GOTQ2 – The Game Of The Quarter is here!
(or something like that)

 

[Alex Johnson]

a.) did u already play the GOTM/GOTQ? no

b.) will u play the GOTM/GOTQ in the future? yes (starting tonight if my wife will let me, otherwise on Saturday)

c.) which difficulty lvl do u prefer? please make a list from which u prefer most to less! 1. PRINCE, 2. King, 3. emperor

d.) do u like games that last till a specific year? if yes which one would u prefer? I prefer conquest, but if the creator wants to last to a specific year for a harder difficulty than Prince, I prefer: 1AD, 1000AD, 1500AD, 2050AD in that order

e.) which goals for the game would u prefer (spaceship, complete conquest, population, whole tech tree, ...)? make a list ... 1. CONQUEST, 2. early score, 3. early population (by early, I mean at 1AD or 1000AD)

f.) do u cheat when just playing for yourself ( which ones)? no

g.) would u rather say competition with or without cheating? without

h.) which name would u suggest for the thread (i propose that question, because i just found the gotm by accident) GAME or COMPETITION would be most recognizable. GOTM was suggested because that is used in the Civ2, Civ3, and Civ4 forums.

 

[Alex Johnson]

f.) do u cheat when just playing for yourself ( which ones)?

I don't even know what cheats you mean. I've heard that you can shift-56 on a specific version of the game. Obviously I consider that a cheat. What else is there? I keep hearing "settler cheat". What does that mean? Can someone make a post of everything that is considered cheating and the common names for the cheats?

As for reloading save games, I don't consider it cheating if you play 10-20turns and don't like the way the game went (say you wanted to know what would happen if you insulted the British, and it resulted in a war where they took half your cities in 15 turns). Then you can roll back to the save and be nice to the British. I do consider it cheating if you save your game, attack the enemy, and reload any time you lose the battle until you've defeated them. Likewise it is cheating to reload the game multiple times in a short time for any reason other than "my computer crashed".

 

[Pikachu]

Ah, let’s discuss the cheats and why they should be allowed/disallowed. I’ll start with GoldBerg’s list. See this post for details.

Shift-56 CHEAT
This totally ruins the game play. Should not be legal to use.

"SAVEGAME" CHEAT
I prefer to ban this too, but I wouldn’t mind some exceptions:
-If your computer crash (obviously).
-If you give a command you didn’t mean to (because you hit the wrong button) it could be acceptable to start over from a savegame.
-If you make a mistake of epic proportions that totally ruins your game it might could be acceptable to start over from a savegame.

I don’t think it should be legal to reload just because of extreme unluck, like loosing a battleship to a chariot or whatever. Dealing with this kind of unpredictability is a part of the game.

"WATERBRiDGE" CHEAT
This is unrealistic, but of course this game isn’t meant to be realistic in the first place, so maybe it could be allowed. I don’t know how powerful this cheat is. If it totally changes the balance in the game it should not be allowed, but if it is possible to do almost as good without using it I have no real issue with allowing it. I am undecided on this one.

SETTLER CHEAT
I understand that some people see this as a feature of the game, but I don’t see the point. It is just a lot of extra work to make the game easier, and those who use it are mostly expert players already who should strive to make the game harder, not easier. Why not just build more settlers and do it the honest way? This cheat should not be allowed (except if you trigger the pollution bug, which pretty much makes it necessary to exploit the settler cheat).

TERRAFORM CHEATS
Using editors to cheat is obviously unacceptable. Even GoldBerg agree that it shouldn’t be allowed.


And then about some exploits:

SETTING LUXURY SLIDER TO 100% JUST BEFÒRE YOU WIN
This gives more happy citizen and therefore more score. This doesn’t affect the gameplay and it is sometimes hard to know which luxury level you would have at the end of the game if you were not thinking about maximizing the score. I think this should be legal and encouraged. I am sure most of you always do this.

LAUNCHING A SPACE SHIP WITH 0% CHANCE OF SUCCESS
It is kind of evil to send all those people out to die in space, but you are allowed to do a lot of evil things in civ, so why not this? I think it should be allowed, and encouraged if early space ship is the goal of the GOTQ.

USING NUKES
The AI have no idea how to protect it self from nukes and the AI don’t know how to use their own nukes efficiently, so using nukes is kind of unfair. But it is not our fault that the AI is stupid, so I think using nukes should be allowed.

BRIBING CITIES
The AI rarely does this, so buying cities all the time seems a little unfair, but again it is not our fault that the AI is stupid, so I think this one should be allowed too.


I probably have forgotten some possible cheats/exploits. Please remind me if you know some, and please discuss which cheats you think should be allowed and not.

 

[trada]

/in doesn't cheat at all. I love the thought of actually winning the game as the designs intended.

/in won't ever cheat (maybe only for research purposes)

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
e.) which goals for the game would u prefer (spaceship, complete conquest, population, whole tech tree, ...)? make a list ...

this is a REAL problem part.

spaceship -
won't work - if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

complete conquest (CONQUER THE WORLD) scene -
just work with a more easy scenario, if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

POPULATiON by special time / date of game -
will ALWAYS work.
...and it is a CONSTRUCTiVE goal of the game!!!
don't forget this, conquerors/destroyers/fast-as-possible-end-of-the-gamers!!!

whole tech tree
if it's too hard just 2 of 8 players will show a result

 

[Irish Caesar]

How do you change the filename extension on the .txt file? I can't figure out how to do it in XP. That's what's been holding me back from the discussions...

 

[GoldBerg]

Shift-56 CHEAT
This totally ruins the game play. Should not be legal to use.

more clearly:
if you use it
u see THE WHOLE MAP and all other civs MOVEMENTS, WARS, terrain improvements "LiVE", turn by turn.

many people don't own the version 1 of the civ.exe - that '474.01'.

but some do.
i need that version to test my terraformed scenarios anyway
(otherwise i would have to play everything hours until i would see if a modification works or not)

using that cheat
leaves 'visible' tracks of other civ's movements
in the small window map field upper left corner -
it would be much work to remove those tracks with terraform realistic.
the REPLAY.TXT from savegames is another indicator.

if we would be (uber-?)correct we would have to demand ALL AUTOMATiC SAVEGAMES (3000 BC 2000 BC 1000 BC 0 AD 1000 AD 1500 AD 1750 AD)
to agree if a very good result bases on a correct played game!

 

[GoldBerg]

How do you change the filename extension on the .txt file? I can't figure out how to do it in XP.
... ...

maybe this will help:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2764288&postcount=2

 

[Irish Caesar]

Thanks, I'll get playing!

 

[GoldBerg]

SETTLER CHEAT
I understand that some people see this as a feature of the game, but I don’t see the point. It is just a lot of extra work to make the game easier, and those who use it are mostly expert players already who should strive to make the game harder, not easier. Why not just build more settlers and do it the honest way? This cheat should not be allowed (except if you trigger the pollution bug, which pretty much makes it necessary to exploit the settler cheat).

you won't see the use (if not over-excessivly used)
so i would say: everybody uses this anyway and you can't force other people not to use it.

it's up to 10 times more work
to hit that function 10 times per turn
(at mountains / gold or swamp)

A) 1st turn to move on the mountain-field

B) hit 4 times= road (2nd turn)

C) hit ~10(?) times= mining (3rd turn)

D) hit ~8 times= railroad ( 4th turn)

= 22 hits (go back and forth)
to optimize the field.

work.
stupid WORK.

 

[GoldBerg]

... ...
"SAVEGAME" CHEAT
I prefer to ban this too, but I wouldn’t mind some exceptions:
-If your computer crash (obviously).
-If you give a command you didn’t mean to (because you hit the wrong button) it could be acceptable to start over from a savegame.
-If you make a mistake of epic proportions that totally ruins your game it might could be acceptable to start over from a savegame.

I don’t think it should be legal to reload just because of extreme unluck, like loosing a battleship to a chariot or whatever. Dealing with this kind of unpredictability is a part of the game.
... ...

everybody over-using "SAVEGAME" CHEAT will pretend that he/she was just lucky.
you won't see if he/she has done it or not.
everybody who don't use it will (probably) lose.

forget about to 'say' this is a NO-NO -
you can't say if somebody did use it
so it's more 'realistic' to inform people about the cheat and declare it LEGAL.