Civ2 in Civ3

[Bucephalus]

I doubt that it will crowd yellow, since it will not need those shared tiles, the wheat, game and fish were never going to be available to your yellow anyway, and will feed green so well that it can become a power city in it's own right.

I'm sorry, but none of that is true:

"will not need those shared tiles". Where you are proposing, the city would have access to only 6 grassland (food) tiles (9 where I'm proposing), all but one being shared with Yellow dot. And if it was to use the six forested tundra tiles it would require irrigated grassland to feed it.

"the Wheat, Game and Fish were never going to be available to your yellow." The Wheat and Fish clearly fall within the BFC.

"It can become a power city in it's own right". No commercial bonus', too much tundra forest (unimproved by rails). It will be an OK city that will gain nothing but a free duct by being moved.

 

[TheOverseer714]

It will only get the fish and wheat after a cultural expansion, meaning either a temple or 2 more towns built. I'm not sure your yellow is so wonderful, but I'll build it there under protest, and you can brag if it becomes a great city, I'll defer to your experience. Green needs moved 1 SW to the coast, so it will at least get the game and can build a harbor, otherwise its a waste of a settler and shouldn't be built, but again I defer to your experience. I'm wondering if maybe we are seeing a different map? Anyway, I guess I'm wondering if I am in the right SG and whether I should even be playing in this one.

OK, that seems a little petty of me. Maybe it's just that we are all 3 used to being in charge of our own SG's and we have different play styles and instincts. I won't edit out my comments, but I will say please forget it, we shouldn't argue over the details. I'm going to get started, so I will just settle on the sites that were picked and move on.

 

[Elear]

I agree with you in that we're all used to a different playstyle and approach, but the primary thing we have in common is that we are all looking for the same end.

With that said, if this were any higher level, our disagreements would be cause for concern. But I strongly believe that on Emperor level, we think close enough for this not to matter.

Since it is each person's decision during their own set, that should be what's final, but of course everyone needs to consider the thoughts of others in team while doing so...

So looking forward to seeing what happens Overseer.

-Elear

 

[TheOverseer714]

Quick question guys. I just got Writing, and I wonder do we research CoL to shoot for the Republic Slingshot or Mathematics for the SoZ? I'm leaning toward the sling and trading for math when our "friends" research it.

 

[Elear]

I would also lean towards the Republic slingshot; SoZ is nice but can wait, and Mathematics will be researched by AI soon enough (although admittedly we don't know many...)

 

[TheOverseer714]

I finished playing, taking the Republic Slingshot route. Settled one town, with a settler en route. Further exploration revealed more of a miserable map and revealed a need for a coastal town for curragh building. Here is the turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-Flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Open the save, look things over.

Civilian units:
Workers 3

Military units:
Warriors 5
Hoplites 1

Press enter=>

IBT: Barb shows near Sparta.

Turn 1, 2110 BC: A little exploring reveals nothing of interest.

IBT: Barb steps up to Sparta, forcing a decision.
Athens Granary=>Warrior.

Turn 2, 2070 BC: Kill barb at Sparta, red-lining warrior. Whew!

IBT: Carthage warrior comes to our border, exploring or barb-hunting.
Thermopylae Hoplite=>Archer.

Turn 3, 2030 BC:

IBT: Athens Warrior=>Settler.

Turn 4, 1990 BC: The more I explore the south, the uglier it gets.
Nice land north of Japan.

IBT:

Turn 5, 1950 BC: Japan now has IW.

IBT:

Turn 6, 1910 BC: Japan should be renamed Texas, finding many cows. 6 so far.

IBT:

Turn 7, 1870 BC: find the western barb camp. This game will be heavily barb infested with all the lousy territory. Barb-farming?

IBT: Hannibal wants 22 gold, I want to tell him to stuff it, but we are not ready for war.

Turn 8, 1830 BC:

IBT:

Turn 9, 1790 BC: Lose to barb, jeez! Carthage now has HBR and Mysticism, I think they have met other civs.

IBT: Athens Settler=>Warrior.

Turn 10, 1750 BC: Settler and Hoplite off to yellow dot. Northern warrior spots yellowish border.

IBT:

Turn 11, 1725 BC:

IBT: Cow has been watered. Athens Warrior=>Warrior.

Turn 12, 1700 BC: begin road on cow. Buceopolis founded on Yellow Dot.

IBT:

Turn 13, 1675 BC:

IBT:

Turn 14, 1650 BC: Meet Egypt, they are up Mysticism.

IBT: We get our first Palace expansion, I add a nice façade to the cave.

Turn 15, 1625 BC: Set Athens to generate settler on growth, Sparta to grow the turn after the granary completes.

IBT: Writing arrives. I get Iron Working, HBR, and Mysticism in Big picture trading.

Turn 16, 1600 BC: Only Iron in sight is on a mountain 4 tiles from Buceopolis and one near Japan.

IBT: Sparta Granary=>Settler.
Buceopolis Warrior=>Worker.

Turn 17, 1575 BC:

IBT:

Turn 18, 1550 BC:

IBT: Thermopylae Hoplite=>Archer

Turn 19, 1525 BC:

IBT: Athens Settler=>Barracks. Athens gets second cultural expansion.

Turn 20, 1500 BC: Rename settler white dot, send him out with escort to future ivory town. Final MM’ing to get settler on growth at Sparta.

Cities
Sparta-Settler in 2 turns, growth in 2.
Buceopolis-Worker in 2 turns, growth in 2.
Athens-Barracks in 8 turns, growth in 5. Can be changed, but Athens can build troops and workers, too food poor to be good settler factory
Thermopylae Archer in 9 turns, growth in 3.

Civilian units:
Settlers 1
Workers 3

Military units:
Warriors 8
Archers 1
Hoplites 3

Contacts: 3
Carthage
Japan
Egypt

The save:

 

[Bucephalus]

Sorry, Elear, but I'm withdrawing from this.

There is nothing wrong with healthy debate, it's what makes a SG strong, but Overseer's vitriolic posts are hostile and offensive.

I don't know what your problem is, Overseer - maybe those lemons are tasting a little sour? - but I'm not prepared to enter into a public slanging match.

....don't disrespect others for taking a different path.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[Rodent]

I am interested in playing with you guys, I am relatively free cause i have got 2 PBEMs and 2 Successions, one of which is an formality.

Calm down please, one cant be eloquent always

 

[TheOverseer714]

Sorry to hear that, Buce. Sometimes I get carried away because of other factors and I take my frustration out on these forums. I guess I will just have to back off from posting in the general forums, not get into the argumentative threads, and just stick to business only. If I offended you, I am sorry, I'm really not like that most of the time.

 

[Bucephalus]

Sorry to hear that, Buce. Sometimes I get carried away because of other factors and I take my frustration out on these forums. I guess I will just have to back off from posting in the general forums, not get into the argumentative threads, and just stick to business only. If I offended you, I am sorry, I'm really not like that most of the time.

Well, I can't deny that I was offended, but you have had the courage and decency to apologise, so consider it forgotten.

Actually, I have been guilty of allowing RL frustrations to overboil on to these forums on more than one occasion, something as uncharacteristic of me as I'm sure it is of you.

 

[TheOverseer714]

That really means alot to me, I realized that I had been a real jerk. I respect your abilities and knowledge, you know the game 10 times better than I do. I was totally out of line here and in several other threads, I just hope I didn't harm the community too much. I violated my own policy of keeping out of arguments, because when you argue about such things, everyone loses.

 

[Elear]

Great!

Rodent you may join in..you've got it. Go for it.


Roster:

Elear
Bucephalus
Overseer
Rodent - UP

 

[Rodent]

I have started

Turn 0- MM Buceopolis to get 1 extra gpt

Turn 1- I look everywhere but cant find white dot on any dot map, so i excercise my discretion.

Turn 2- Sparta builds Settler, starts Hoplite, Buceopolis builds workers, starts barracks. The Settler gets moving towards the lake serving a dual purpose of blocking carthage and having good green tiles

Turn 3- Zzzzzz

Turn 4-Zzzzz

Turn 5-I get Incense connected, Saving some lux tax. I had sent a archer to a goody hut, guess what, we pop literature. I am doubtful if we should do the Great Library or not. Found Delphi. MM Athens to shave a turn off Barracks at cost of growth

Turn 6- Athens builds barracks, get it on Settler. Pharsalos founded close to Carthage

Turn 7- Hell, Sparta riots, lose a turn of its production.

Turn 8- Sparta builds settler, Goes on Hoplite

Turn 9- Athens produces settler, goes archer. Couldnt think of any good site for a settler

Turn 10- Knossos founded. goes on hoplite.

And i Pause the game here, for a discussion. We have Literature, Which none of the known AIs have. There is Opportunity for a 2-1 trade but i am not sure if we are going for the G.lib or if we can trade liberally.

Also, Our cities number is now 7, 8 in a few turns all of which have decent production capabilities, so do we attack Carthage? Almost all of our cities can produce a 20-shield unit in 4 turns on just a little development. Since i am a no good player, your advice would be great

 

[Bucephalus]

I doubt that the GLib will help much in this game, as I would expect to out-research the AI on Emperor.

As far as the trading goes, we need more info: what trades are available? with whom? have we met anyone else?

BTW, if you don't already do so, I highly recommend running CivassistII while you play. It gives a whole host of information including when a city is about to riot.

 

[Rodent]

Your thoughts match with mine. Philosophy and Map making are available, Philo will be a straight deal but map making may be tricky

Thanks for the tool, Sounds useful

You didnt answer my question about war

 

[Bucephalus]

I still need more info to give an opinion on the trading: who has what?

I wouldn't think that we are ready to go to war yet, but I'd need to look at the save to give a definitive answer.

You'll find CivAssistII in the 'utilities' forum.

 

[Rodent]

Hell, anyways, egypt has both philo and map making, japan or carthage has philo

 

[Bucephalus]

Try to establish whether any of the other Civs have met. If they haven't, the way to make the trade would be to get MM first then trade for Philo. Because they haven't met, MM would have the value of a monopoly tech.

In all honesty though, without access to the save I'm stabbing in the dark, so you'll either need to post it or play using your best judgement.

 

[Rodent]

Well i bought Map making but the stinking egyptians decide they dont want to give me philosophy. What a waste of time.

Turn 11- Thermo builds archer. starts settler. sparta builds hoplite, starts worker (worker force sucks) Argos founded, starts warrior

Turn 12- Delphi builds Hoplite, starts worker

Turn 13- Sparta builds worker,starts another

Turn 14- Athens builds archer, starts another, Buceopolis builds barracks, starts Archer, Pharsalos builds worker, starts another

Turn 15-Sparta builds worker, starts settler. Tokugawa wants gold, i give it

Turn 16- Code of laws in 1 turn. gain 5 gold

Turn 17- Trade CoL with Japan for Philo and all his cash. get 25 gold from barbs

Turn 18- Athens has archer, goes another, Buecopolis has archer, goes hoplite

Turn 19-Sparta and thermo produce settlers, goes barracks and archer respectively

Turn 20- Argos produces Worker, goes Barracks

Well i am done, a bit of expansion, a stack of archers in thermo, 1-2 barracks and expansion of worker force.

What i couldnt do was to bolster culture. someone else might want to do that.

Also please comment on how i played cause i really want to know if i play good or bad

 

[TheOverseer714]

We don't need no stinking culture! Seriously, seems like you did fine. White dot was on the lake and was to block carthage and also to claim the Ivory, so looks like you came pretty close. The wonder we do want to build is the Statue of Zeus, so the next settler can claim the Ivory. Caveats are that Sparta is meant to be a settler factory, so should only build settlers. The coastal town should build boats to contact other civs for trading opportunities. Just a couple things could have been better, but I'm sure my turns could have been better also.