Civ3 GOTM #6 *Spoilers* Thread

@^%*%#%^&(
It was all going good.
Was a Major Economic power, several techs ahead of everyone else, good army.
Then Britian moves over 30 units accross the border, and I just watch for 2 turns, they are making a beeline for my second capital.
So I contact England and ask them to leave. They declare war.
And a MDP with Germany and Babalon. In 30 turns I'm holding with bablon and starting to advance, and got germany to go netural., But most of my workers in homeland are gone due to major raids by Babalon, and polution is becoming rampant.

then China and Japan Invade. #%&^$, 5 turns later my goverment Collapse. but the Religeous Civ ability means next turn I can change to communist and keep fighting.

I didn't loose any cities (that I started with) and ended up with half of bablon and a few japanese and 1 british city by the time the war was over.
But now I'm about equal in tech and persia alread has 4 spaceship components.

I do like the AI in Civ 3 compared to Civ 2.

But While i had the Manhattan project I didn't have any way to use nukes (tech choices) other wise I might have used nukes to take out the invastion forces.

I have notice that the AI never uses or threats with nukes.
Good thing you can't have a nuclear winter in this game (but then it would only last for a few turns.

(this has been a message of no significance)
 
Elfi Wolfe:

If you know an AI civ is about to attack you (and it's normally pretty clear; look at the picture I posted of the stack China sent against me a few pages earlier on this thread) there is a way to deal with any Mutal Protection Pacts they may have. First sign your own MPP with all civs that the aggressor has them with. Then ask them to leave your territory; when they don't do so they will declare war on you.

Now the tricky part: make sure that the aggressor civ attacks YOU first and not the other way around. This is easy to do by sending a worker as bait for them to capture. As long as you don't attack first, the other civs will join YOUR side in the war! It certainly makes things a lot easier; a civ allied with everyone else can be taken out this way without fighting the entire world as well. :goodjob:
 
I am also shooting for "Fastest Space Ship" this time, and here's my path.

Ancient Times

Just built cities. But I had to stop when I had built 13, as the Babs and Persians have claimed nearly all open land. Secured Ivory and Spices, but not Iron. The Babs built Nineveh(their second city) near the iron square(I forgot, maybe I sold them Iron Working?). I decided to go war with them so I built a barracks in Delhi and pumped out 5 archers and 1 spearman, in the time when other cities are busy sending out people to colonize.

This was not a good strategy as it proved later. Since the Zulus got the most precious wonder, the Pyramids, before me. If Delhi had started the wonder earlier, I would have a much faster growing rate and reduced costs on granaries.

But militarily it is successful, my archers swiftly found the Babylonian capital of Babylon and captured it soon. I tried peace with the Babs, but they would not sign the deal of giving all their cities to me in return for a cease-fire. So Ur was captured as well. This time they are much more humble, and I got all their cities excluding Akkad.

The unfortunate thing was that the Persians was also dragged in this war, against me. They have immortals, which I simply can't contain. My Iron was still on the hill waiting for the road network to get them down! :cry: I succeeded in begging peace after lost 1 city. Returned from Persia I changed to Republic.

Middle Ages

Completed the Great Lighthouse around the start of the middle ages and set out in search of the other civilizations. It didn't take long to find the Chinese, and I bought Monarchy plus contacts to all others with my World Map, contact to the Persians and Babs(they still have 1 city).

The Colossus gave me the Golden Age and a good boost on research. Libraries and marketplaces was soon built in all major cities, and cathedrals in some big ones. Education was soon discovered, and all my cities was busy establishing a university and hire professors to it. I simply don't have the time to build enough elephants to defeat the Persians.

Later I sold Education to all other civs, hoping they can research all 'branch' techs for me, I want the wonders, but not the research time. I was able to reduce the researching time to four turns when Chemistry was out.

Used 8 turns to develop Printing Press and Democracy, it is simply a waste of time...

Industrial Ages

I developed Steam Power before finding out that all coal deposits on this continent was in the Persian territory.:sad: So I researched immediately Military Tradition and upgraded all my elephants to cavalry. Started an assault on Persians, wiped them out of the continent in 20 turns or so(without their immortals I would finish much more quickly).

Starting from the Corporation I have regained the speed of 4 turns a tech. Soon the AI had all the technologies in Middle Ages except Gravity. But they started a World War which means they won't be researching any more, so I gave them this final tech for all they have(Music, Economics, Navigation, Artistry).

Modern Ages

The first tech is definitely Computers. I used a 100% research rate to lower the time to 4 turns and lost about 1600 gold in this single tech:eek:. After that things was much more easier, I decided to attack the Zulus to improve my score, and they were wiped out in 10 turns. Then I stopped my armies, called them back to see the magnificent launch of Rama-1( the name of the ship, of course).

End But New Beginning

I latered replayed the game with the new patch. Fixed many things I've done wrong. I got the Pyramids, didn't enraged the Persians in Ancient Times, didn't wasted 8 turns on Printing Press and Democracy, and got things more smooth this time.

Finally I launched the ship 95 years earlier than the submitted game. If I had used Beard Rinker's strat to build up the Germans, it would be 115 years earlier.
 
It was nice to have a GOTM where even us mere mortals could beat the AI!

I found the choke point early and grabbed it. Crushed the Babylonians early but couldn't wipe 'em out cause they ran to that little island in the south. No matter, there were still Persians nearby to kill and what's this? I can actually build wonders in a GOTM! Well, since I can't resist city improvements either and could never bring myself to sell a temple or library I figured it would be a culture win. Thought I'd try for 20,000 points in Delhi.

Well, it turns out I couldn't easily kill the Persians so I ended up making peace with them. Delayed the FP thinking I could take out the Persians. Ended up building it on the Persian border the hard way.

After I found the other continent (late) the Chinese and Japanese killed off the Zulu leaving some nice land open for settlement so I built some cities over there. Made MPPs with Japan and China so they wouldn't take my footholds over there. England got trounced opening more land for me.:)

By this time I realized that I'd get 100,000 total culture before 20,000 in Delhi. So be it. Persia actually attacked me and I ended up at war with China and England as well. England got wiped out, mostly by the Germans. I finally killed off both Persia and Babylon and sealed off China. I ended up with six or eight armies! Settled a large chunk of the southern coast on the big continent and had many cities flip to me along the way.

Ended up with the culture win in 1956 - same as someone else (AndyS?). Of course there were culture victories much earlier so I still won't be high in the standings. Still an enjoyable game!

BTW, had about 16,000 culture points in Delhi.
 
Originally posted by Lawrence
Finally I launched the ship 95 years earlier than the submitted game. If I had used Beard Rinker's strat to build up the Germans, it would be 115 years earlier.

The Germans actually saved me 8 turns in the modern age. One from their free tech and one other they researched. I think favoring 1 or 2 opponents is a good strategy when going for fastest space launch as 1 or 2 strong opponents will contribute to the research.

My biggest mistake I think was not taking out the Babylonians early. They never contributed anything and their extra territory might have allowed me to research techs every four turns sooner.
 
Well I'm finally finished and can switch over to the new patch :egypt: To recap my game:

I started by sprawling up between the persians and the babs. And began buliding the FP very early right on the choke point. I attacked the Babs around 200 bc with horsemen and took all their cities but 1 by 100 ad, razed most of them and resettled getting rapid development from the bab worker horde. In about 650 i attacked the persians right after i upgraded by horsemen to elephants and finished them off in a few turns along with the last bab city by 700 ad. The elephants gave me a golden age which I leveraged rapidly through to infantry and tanks, once the hoover was finished. While this was being done i found the upper contintent at the China end and began sprawling again into their turf. England delcared war on me. I allied everyone but China against England nd never actually invaded their territory. While that war was going on. I captured China with Cavalry around 1200 if i recall the date right. My tank army was now ready. The other war was over without much real impact on the other civs except England had been weakened.

The other civs had some mpps. So i invaded Zulu and got attacked by Japan and England. Again i avoided invading Japan to keep Germany out of the war. England stayed neutral. Once the Zulu looked done I signed an mpp with Germany. Japan atacked and voided their mpp with Germany which entered the war on my side. Japan pulled in England on their side, which was fine with me. All told it took about 12-15 turns to destroy the Zulu, Japan and England. My gov crashed on the last turn so i took a few turns to organize the captured territory and fill it up with settlers in choice spots.

Germany was completely sealed off. After a few turns I attacked Germany and this took a bit longer since i was at my territory limit and had to raze everything, so moving troops was slower. Reduced the Germans to 2 cities and my gov crashed again so i made peace. At this point i just blockaded the Germans sold all my culture and science imps and grew for a few hundred years. Had a choice of 3 victories on the last turn; missed the spaceship option by 5 turns due to a miscalculation much earlier. UN wasnt likely since Bismarck was still furious with me and there were only the two of us left :egypt: Ended up with a nice score tho probably not high enough to win. If i had been able to find the upper continent faster it would have definitely have improved my score a lot.

As it was i just missed topping the high score in the HOF for Warlord :( But it was huge improvement over my first GOTM and gave me the opportunity to employ much that I learned in that one, so I look forward to the next one :)
 
As it was i just missed topping the high score in the HOF for Warlord

Yeah, but the high score on Warlord was a huge map, not large. Imagine what your score would have been if you had 30 or so more cities to milk those last few hundred years.
 
Originally posted by Bamspeedy


Yeah, but the high score on Warlord was a huge map, not large. Imagine what your score would have been if you had 30 or so more cities to milk those last few hundred years.


Or a Bamspeedy 'worker' dogpile (450 million people can't be wrong). I wonder just how big those cities can really get?

CB
 
Or a Bamspeedy 'worker' dogpile (450 million people can't be wrong). I wonder just how big those cities can really get?

:lol: :lol: Now only if there was a way to get free workers every turn....It wouldn't be feasible to use that method for a milking game, since some cities would be losing population points to supply workers to that big city, only to be losing 1/turn due to starvation.

But I'll go start a game and see if a city maxes out at size 999 or not. Goal: 1 billion people in one city!
 
My gov crashed on the last turn...

That happened to me as well. In my ancient wars against the Babylonians and Persians I razed the cities I captured in order to rebuild cities in better spots. Then in the second war with the Persians I had a democracy with the lux slider set high so I had gobs of happy people. I razed one stinkin' Persian city and my democracy turned into anarchy!
 
According to Gramphos, the city size is saved as a signed 32 bit number. Signed means that one of the bits is used as a + or -. So unless there is some game mechanics limit, the maximum size would be 2^31 - 1 = 2147483647. In a test where I changed the Workers to be worth 25 pop points I was able to build up a size 1025 city pretty quickly. I have a save with about 800 Workers, at 25 pop points each that would give a city near 20k. It takes a long time to move all the Workers and add them, and a significant delay when processing the +25 pop too. Maybe if I get bored I'll see how big a city I can get.

EDIT: Just ran a quick check in the editor, the pop points for each worker can be set up to 255.
 
I think it's safe to assume that the city size limit would never be reached playing under normal rules! The population number in the city screen gets cut off after 10 digits (and 2 of the digits are overwritten by the date).
 
Originally posted by Aeson
It takes a long time to move all the Workers and add them.[/i]

Try using "J" w\ groups of workers and then only hitting the "b" key to add them. It mght save u alot of time, so u can go longer.....mu wah ha ha ha ha:o
 
As everyone knows, there was no iron on the eastern side of the home continent. I chose an early horseman attack, hoping to capture the iron. Frankly, I was greedy. :p



Well, I captured the iron all right. :D



Then this :eek: The iron is gone.



What a serious Karmic pain! :crazyeye:

Zachriel
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm6/
 
Then this The iron is gone.

How sad. I also experienced this in my 'replay'. The good thing is that we are Indians, who don't need iron for elephants. This would be the place where elephants prevail.
 
This was my first gotm and I really enjoyed it. :)

I got golden age 850bc thanks to colossus and pyramids. Expanded like crazy.

When I had no room left, I started building horsemen. I was hoping to upgrade them to war elephants but my treasure was running low and i had to attack Babylon 280 ad.

530 Bye bye Babylon! Now I upgraded my horsemen to elephants and built some more. 600ad at war against Persia.

990 ad island is mine. Rushed FP in the middle of the bigger half of my continent.(Near Persepolis)

1450 ad landed on the huge continent near Germany. Took 4 small German cities and made peace. Then started to destroy England. 1605 Elizabeth had only 1 city left, made peace.

Then I decided to finish Germans. 1670 They were gone.

1690 i was at war with everybody. England was destroyed fast. Landed near China too and got 4 cities in one turn. I made peace with Zulus but kept on capturing Japanese and Chinese cities.

1758 ad Cultural Victory.
:cool:
 
started very late but did the usual.
cities all over my half of the continent, found babs and persians.
when i built a poorly defended city next to the ivory the persians
came at me with warriors. what a joke. i pumped out some
archers and a few horsemen once i hooked up the horses and took a city from them and declared peace. persians weren't in
my plans yet. i stacked a few horsemen and attacked the
babylonians once they built the oracle. there was no need to
involve the persians but i did anyway. i took all babylonian
cities on the continent, leaving them two cities on the island.
the persians went after them and destroyed them.
meanwhile, i had elephants and just declared war on the persians.

they put up a gallant fight with their immortals but the outcome was obvious. i had all the wonders except the pyramids and was building up culture too fast (didn't know it then and wasn't really planning on it). i sent a few galleys to explore and we found the
main continent. the zulus were at war with the chinese and were destroying them. i gave folks technology to see whether they could help along. no use.
well, i left the persians some cities in the northwest cos i wanted to build up first.
once i got cavalry i re-initiated hostilities against them and captured all their cities...and resumed building.
some reckoning had to be done on the main continent cos that's where everything was. after the hoover dam, i built tons of infantry and tanks and transports.
by this time the zulus had finished off the chinese, some wars were being fought on the easter front between the japanese,
english and germans. routine trading of cities...no ground being really taken.
the zulus declared war. i loaded up tanks into 4 tranports and attacked them. with my cultural rating no cities flipped and resistance took only 1 or 2 turns.
basically it was airport invasion.

with all the gold in the treasury, i would rush an airport at the frontlines and airlift the 10 or so tanks made each turn ( every city in the home continent had an airport).

seeing as how my culture was growing too fast, i disbanded all the libraries....and then the cathedrals. after the zulu, it was the japanese. i had intended to take them out one by one if i could.
culture was still growing too fast so i disbanded the temples.
when i had all 8 luxuries i rushed marketplaces everywhere to take care of happiness.
i got all the japanese territory and my cultural score was 98K+.
so i researched fission and disbanded the universities and abandoned the 4 highest cultural cities in the homeland leaving the ones with smith trading and hoover. that reduced cultural growth to a steady 35/turn. i wanted to squeeze as many turns of milking as possible before the UN.
i kept the english and germans happy by supplying them with techs and luxuries. i also researched synthentic fibres just in case they got antsy (it's funny research rate doesn't slow down much even without libraries and universities).
a few turns before the end i made an MPP with elizabeth because she had made one with germany and couldn't have her voting for bismarck. i begged and cajoled her with deals.
i built the UN and took the vote...one more turn and i would have triggered a cultural victory but she voted for me in 1942AD.

i don't know what the scores are but i could have planned better of course...disbanding those temples, cathedrals and libraries in the 1700s.
 
(it's funny research rate doesn't slow down much even without libraries and universities).

Yes i found that weird too ~ I think it dropped 3 turns at most of my research rate which suggests here is some scaling issue there thats a bit wacky becuase it harldy seems worhthwhile to build them for that kind of difference.:crazyeye:
 
Finally finished my first GOTM, and I really enjoyed it. This was my first Cultural victory, intentional or otherwise, and so I also learned more about how the cultural aspects add up. This was also my first game on Warlord (I started on Regent when I got the game), so there were some adjustments there too.

Like most everyone, once I saw the bottleneck I hurried to settle there, then fill in the rest of my half of the continent. I initially pushed a couple of other cities past the bottleneck, to settle near the Ivory, but Babylon had already gotten it within their borders, so I had to rush culture to push the borders back, which worked. I did not notice that I had no iron until it was too late, the Babs had already settled that one too. I concentrated on peacefully building, and got the Great Library, but with only contact of the two civs, and on Warlord, I soon realized I wasn’t going to get much tech from them. I also was surprised to complete so many wonders, I am so used to the AI getting all the early ones. Once I realized that, I tried to get them all, and after Pyramids and Oracle, I got every wonder.

With the Great Lighthouse, I started exploring, and two of my “suicide Galleys” made it to the other continent. I soon was able to trade communications with all other civs, but did not initially give communications with the Persians or Babs. I also did start getting some techs from the Great Library, including Monotheism. About this same time I completed the Colossus, which triggered my Golden Age, around 350AD. With that, I built Cathedrals in every city, and most of my core cities had run out of things to build. This was when I started to think about a Culture victory. I was only at 15 cities, a little under 4000 culture total, but by adding all these cathedrals, I knew it would start to grow. It seemed that neither the Babylonians or Persians were building much culture, most of their cities only had a border of 1 tile.
I cranked out some more settlers and started building cities in the creases of their borders, as well as about 6 more cities on my half of the island. I normally go for a pretty spread-out build to minimize overlap, but I decided to maximize culture I would need more cities, for more temple-library-cathedrals.

I originally wasn’t too excited about playing India, I always thought the War Elephant was a wasted Unique Unit, with no advantages, but it really came in handy on this map, with no iron. I used the rest of my golden age to crank out horsemen, planning to then upgrade them to War Elephants when I got Chivalry and Leo’s Workshop. I did get a temporary trade deal with the persians for 20 turns, just before I got Fuedalism, so when it came I finished Sun Tzu and quickly upgraded a bunch of spearman to pikeman.
Unfortunately I got impatient, because even with my growing culture, no cities defected over to me, so I invaded babylon with the horseman and a bunch of swordsman. I made some quick progress until the Iron deal lapsed, and I still didn’t have Ashur, which was the Bab’s Iron city on a hill. I finally pounded it down with catapults and my last few swordsmen. I then made peace to rebuild, before finishing them off.

Meanwhile, in 550 my golden age was over, and I stopped to look at my culture situation. I was at nearly 7000 culture, growing by almost 200 per turn, but when I calculated out the doubling effects, which would be kicking in, I figured I would be at 25,000 by 1250 AD, growing by 360/turn. This didn’t seem like it would be enough, so I knew I would need to build some more cities, or take them from the Babs/Persians. Throughout all of this, I still had no Great Leaders, and no citys had flipped to me! I rebuilt a new city at the site of Ashur, and built the population up with Indian workers from my home cities, to start building the Forbidden Palace. By rushing Temple/Library/Cathedral/Courthouse/Market, I was able to get it up to a size 8 and keep it in WLTKD, which reduced corruption below 50%, so I could actually put about 6 shields per turn into it, but it still took like 35 turns.

Meanwhile, I finished off the Babylonians, and prepared for my war against Persia. I could see they now had two sources of Iron, so I sent galleys loaded with my first few elephants to wait off their coast near the iron. When Leo’s workshop was done, I upgraded the rest of my horsemen and launched the invasion. The turn before, I fnally got a Persian city (Arbela) to flip to me, so I could push my invasion forces a little closer to his core. Unfortunately, he had already developed Fuedalism, so I took some serious losses against his pikeman, but I took about half his cities over the next couple centuries. By then, we had gunpowder, and the elephants were not doing so well, so I negotiated peace. Still no leaders. I focused on rushing culture buildings in my new cities. My core cities, since they had run out of things to build, began a modified caravan approach, and started cranking out elephants and catapults, which I would then move to the newer cities and disband, to boost production. Especially before the FP was completed, it helped me finish many libraries and cathedrals.

By now my plan was to have temple/library/cathedral in every city, and a colosseum and University in every city greater than size 7. By 1250 with persia down to about 5 cities, I had about 48. I never did attempt to settle on the big continent, in fact other than tech sales, I had almost no dealings with the other civs at all, until near the end. At this point, I knew I was going for culture victory, and I had enough cities on my continent already. If I got too many more, corruption would be too high, and it would take even more micromanagement. Anyway, in 1250 I had nearly 30,000 culture, and growing by 400 per turn. The next stretch, to 1450, saw a huge increase, as all those buildings built in my golden age doubled, and I built up the old Persian cities. By 1450 I had almost 60,000 culture and growing by 850 per turn. I continued to complete all the wonders as they came available. I had been shooting to hit the 100,000 by 1750, but now I thought I could do a little better than that.

I was almost on cruise control when “Persia and Zululand sign a military alliance against you!!” The Persians struck fast, taking out a bunch of workers and some cannons, but no cities. I pumped up research (I had been cranking out cash to rush colosseums), and got Cavalry in 4 turns. I also got a leader! An elite elephant from the last war took out an Immortal, and Chandragupta appears! I used him to build an army, so I could fill it with cav and write the Heroic Epic. By this time I was within 5 turns of finishing Newtons, Smiths, Magellans and Shakespeare in four different cities, and knew the AI was going very slow with wonders. Anyway, I paid the Chinese, Japanese and Germans with tech to go after the Zulus, and I attacked the persians. After I took a couple more cities, I was able to get peace, and two more cities, leaving them with only the capital and Samaria. This was about 1600, so I just kept cranking out culture, and watching the turns tick by. I did rush to build hospitals in most of my cities, so population would grow, and my luxuries kept most everyone happy, but I don’t have the patience to truly “milk” a game for score. At this point I was just happy to beat my target date for the culture victory, which I finally did in 1680.

Like I said, lots of fun, I had never done that before. The beginning part of the game was fun too, almost reminded me of Civ2, lots of food, easy expansion, docile AI, getting every wonder! Anyway, looking forward to next month.
 
Time to start telling my game story, although I am not sure whether I can finish it in time due to the huge amount of time my studies take up right now. :o

Anyway, a Warlord level game was really something interesting again, this time I was the one to have approx. the double amount of cities at the same time than the AI, at least in the beginning. I began fighting Babylon pretty soon, they respawned a little to the north though. I was way ahead in tech compared to the Persian and took out the last Babylonians around 1AD.
A military campaign against Persia was not feasible, darn those Immortals.
Built the GL, Colossus and HG, just finished the GW and Sun Tzu´s.
I crossed the ocean shortly after finishing the GL, made contact with all the other Civs but trade agreements weren´t really profitable.
Unfortunately the English suddenly declared war and a bit later several other joined in, despite having no means nor enough military power to threaten me. The main continent is still partly free for settlement, especially the jungle regions. I am supporting the Germans a bit but right now other matters are at hand.
The indian army has just been fully upgrade to medieval time and our campaign against Persia is about to start soon. :cool:

It really is a relaxing game at this level but it still takes a lot of time. Still not sure which winning route to go, but probably not culture.
:D
 
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