Civ4 GOTM49 Final Spoiler

[jesusin]

GOTM 49 Final Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in GOTM 49, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless

• You have submitted your entry
• You have abandoned your game and will not submit your entry

Please, whine about your biggest mistake this game...
but also, don't forget to brag about your biggest success!

 

[SteelHorse]

Wow - get to post first.

A very enjoyable and interesting (some may call ugly) 1824 Diplo victory in completely peaceful game.

Decided early on that given the distance to the nearest AI that a REX and tech strategy might work. And even at Immortal which is normally one level beyond where I can keep up on tech. Lots of trading and guessing where the AI was headed and lots of make nice. Never took a religion.

Hunting->AH->(popped a hut for Pot somewhere which helped )->Min->BW ->Writ->Alpha->Traded like there was no tomorrow.

Build the Great Lib and was first to Liberalism.

Started to configure a few cities for production and thought space would be the final frontier. But given there had been no wars and had +diplo with everyone and 3 Friendlies, I thought I had a legit case for a UN victory with far less turns.

So headed south on the tech tree for Mass Media, while all the rest headed for the ship. Built the UN, voted for Toku as chief, and low and behold Cyrus wins. What? There is rioting in the streets, election officials are called in, civil unrest everywhere.

The officials claim that Mansa has changed his vote due to some sort of "we like your civics voodoo". Sounded like vote fraud - and being from Chicago well...

Now what. Panic. Tried to get FDR to switch from Cyrus by making a Def Pact with him, which pissed everyone off. Five turns later cancel that and shortly thereafter that manage to scrape enough votes to take charge of the UN. Not enough for Diplo victory however.

By now the space ships part completion for the AI is scrolling like the Dow Jones ticker after every turn completion. I do have 4 or so nice production cities (factories, power, mines, RR, even IW somewhere), so thinking if I can start Apollo, get the Internet and build the elevator, maybe I can catch them.

But a funny thing happened. With Mansa needing about 3 more parts and I was about 3 turns from Apollo - the UN resolutions came up. So I asked if everyone would kindly like to switch to Enviro as it was helping me with my health issues. Low and behold natural order is restored and on the next vote I claim the victory I so richly deserved.

Thanks jesusin for a challenging but winnable setup on a high level.

 

[Fluroscent]

1565AD Domination

Peaceful bunch of AI, yes, but unfortunately for them, Tokugawa is not the friendly type. Cyrus went down very easily to almost pure samurai spam. Had a few cats to bombard culture away, but CI/CR2 Samurais chop up longbows quite easily after that. Draft city got set up nicely next to the american border while cleaning up Cyrus.

Now, Asoka was quite advanced, so I could not rely on cats/samurais only to continue the northern campaign. So beelined steel for cannons and grenadiers, planning to shut down research afterwards.
Vanilla has some funny balance issues, like grenadiers being largely without counters until infantry - They have the 50% bonus vs rifles in general - not just on attack. Oh and of course available with chemistry.
Cavalry may be ok against them, but no AI went that route (well, Mansa+Roosevelt were ages ahead in tech, but I didnt need to touch them to get dom, they were also pleased the whole game). Also, agg+barracks+theocracy makes formation grenadiers out of the gate. I had some in the stacks to deal with knights mainly.
Washington went down easily to catapult+samurai+muskets. I forgot that muskets replaced samurais as draft units, and I could have delayed gunpowder a handful of turns without slowing down steel anyway. This would have given more CR grenadiers later.
Asoka went down to the mass of upgraded CR grenadiers+cannon support. He had a lot of rifles, but not much else. Upgraded CR2-3 grenadiers were getting 90%+ odds attacking rifles in cities after culture bombardment. Lost a few of those battles early though, so ran short on super grenadiers and had to rely more on stock CII/pinch ones in the end.
And finally Hatty turned out to be the most resilient, with high culture and a lot of rifles+knights. I did stop pouring units that way a bit too soon, and still was stuck with unupgradable muskets, so I had to wait for the northern stacks to arrive before taking the last couple of cities. Had I drafted more samurais before gunpowder, I would have saved 5-10 turns in the end.

Lastly, I settled all the gaps and pushed culture until domination. Mansa+Roosevelt were so far ahead that they had nothing showing in the "can research" column. Good thing they didnt feel like attacking.

Got bored with worker actions so I actually automated them all at some point. In hindsight I could probably have squeezed a somewhat bigger score if I had taken the time to do the micromanagement, including farm chaining etc.

I liked the game setup with lots of space and peaceful AI. It should give most people a fighting chance to pursue most victory types.

 

[Thorrez]

Nice game Fluroscent!

I had one test game and noticed that early rushes was out due to distance and that it cripple me to much. So I decided to wait with the metal and settle the first 2 new cities on the river and cottage spam. Also stole a worker from Washington.

Worked wonders until Cyrus attacked . He took my good 2nd city and I had to give away the 3rd one for peace. Settle on the copper, built/whipped a much of spears and axes and went back at him. Took back my original 2nd city but that was it.

Pretty much gave up after this, played it without much brain used for an outside diplo shot but ended up being beet to UN by Hatty with 12 turns, some of with had been saved if I hadn't chopped 3 trees the turn before starting UN (great planing!). I also traded a lot for relations and Hatty gained the most so I could have stalled her more.

Had I built the UN I think I had a good shot, everybody loved everyone and with Cyrus as the rival it could have worked. But I am not sure.

 

[Holy Cheese]

Spaceship loss to Roosevelt, 1858 AD.

Got creamed in this one. Never recovered from early barb problems, Roosevelt had already completed Appollo Program in 1740 AD, around the time that I was just getting Rifles.

AI was too good for me here! Was a very peaceful game too, not a single war took place in the whole game!

Jack

 

[lymond]

1846 Space Loss to FDR

Just got totally swamped on this one. Have no clue what I did wrong but soon found myself in a deep deep whole tech wise, despite having the Great Library. I think part of the problem is normal speed which I don't play much and I guess not getting enough land. I found it appalling even how fast Cyrus could REX alway the way to the southern tip of the map. He completely block me off. Well the last couple of cities were barbs, but still.

Seemed though that I was in a state of parity early and then BOOM the AIs just take off. I probably missed out on tech trade effectively which is actually a big weakness of mine.

Also, surprised how much of a freakin Love Fest this map was. All the leaders were just hangin' out drinkin' the Kool Aid all game. I shoulda played Toku like the bahstahd he was and open an can o' on these guys. Oh well.

Basically, I probably played this as bad as it possibly could be played. I think it require finesse that I've not yet achieved at this point. Last several turns was just pressing the space bar to get the misery over with. You know you are doing quite poorly when AI gifts you techs - spontaneously!

 

[adrianj]

First spoiler is here.

*** Session 5: 500 AD -> 1000 AD ***

The empire has a bit of a boom in this session. City specialisation is working well, with the capital dedicated for science, HE built in a production city, and NE built in a food city. Civics are Hered.Rule, Caste System and Bureau. Still no religion - Judaism and Taoism have spread to me, but I wouldn't get any friends for them.

*** Session 6: 1000 AD -> 1300 AD ***

Oh dear, I have no iron. That makes Samurai not very useful... I would really like gunpowder pretty soon...

Mansa beats me to Liberalism by 4 turns. Alas. I'm still going to finish it, since Free Religion could be nice.

I think I might aim for a diplo victory, since everybody seems to like me pretty well, and Asoka, Washington and Roosevelt all love Universal Suffrage, and Mansa likes Free Market.

*** Session 7: 1300 AD -> 1500 AD ***

If civ4 experience has taught me anything, land is power. I'm doing alright at this point, about average with the AI but behind in tech. So my goal now is to expand into Washington's lands.

ONe thing I've noticed in Vanilla civ, it is painfully obvious to see when the AI has researched Rifling or I assume Assembly Line - there is a MASSIVE spike in their power graph. At this point in the game it looks like Mansa at least has Rifling. Washington has Cavalry.

But... Washington has many friends. If I really want diplo I really shouldn't go there.

New tech goals are playing catch up - researching techs that some others don't have. Chemistry gets me up to Optics, and now I see not many know Astro, despite being a prereq for Physics. When it comes in a collect Nationalism and Divine Right plus lots of cash. Not bad, hopefully steam power will do better.

*** Session 8: 1500 AD -> 1720 AD ***

I'm signing a few defensive pacts with people, the aim being to get them to friendly enough to ignore WFYABTA.

Steam Power is worth Consitution and Democracy, which is great for me since emancipation unhappiness is being a pain, and I can join the US lovers.

Unbelievably, in 1705 AD I'm actually the first to research Mass Media. Mansa is building SS casings, so I can only hope and cross my fingers now I think.

Next tech target is Fibre Optics, so I can build the Internet and properly catch up.

With a bit of help from a saved up GE, the UN is built in 1720 AD.

*** Session 9: 1720 AD -> 1832 AD ***

It's not until 1735 that the UN SecGen elections come along - Cyrus is my opponent. That's suits me ok, since he won't get any favourite civic bonuses with anyone. I win SecGen with 636/1064 votes - Asoka, Washington and Cyrus voting against me.

For the victory vote, I get only 468/1066... Mansa abstained this time and I couldn't sway any of the other 3. Asoka seems borderline, but I'm not sure I'll be able to change his mind. Space race is my fallback plan, but no aluminium... in fact, I can't see any on the whole map

In 1824 I certainly feel like things aren't working my way. Pretty much everyone is building SS parts, and the AI has a pretty big head start on Fibre Optics and building the Internet (my crutch).

But, I wasn't far off the diplo victory vote. I have defensive pacts with everyone except Cyrus and Masa. At the last vote all voted for me except Mansa (hindu), Cyrus and Asoka (buddhist) - everyone else is free religion... perhaps if I convert to buddhism and get Asoka's vote things will go better next round? Worth a try.

And it works! Asoka switches, I get 760/1121.

Tokugawa wins a Diplomatic Victory in 1832 AD. Final score of 35018.

It's not very fast, but at this level, I'll take any victory I can get

 

[ainglis]

Took the adventurer save, but still was easily beaten. Space race loss to Mansa Musa in 1876 AD.

Fell behind early as I always do on the higher difficulty levels. Still, I was first to alphabet and managed to trade it around to recover some techs. Became pleased with everyone quite quickly, and never adopted a religion, so it stayed that way for the whole game. In fact there wasn't a single war at all! Signed a couple of defensive pacts later on just in case, as there was no way I'd survive an attack by the technologically superior AI.

Still, I didn't play very well, was last in score throughout the game and made a number of fundamental errors. Forgot to research printing press for a start, which slowed down my culture output considerably. Also bizarrely forgot to switch to free speech for several turns. On the other hand, it wouldn't have made any difference, since by the time I lost in 1876 AD I was nowhere near victory.

The real problem was that I just didn't pop enough Great Artists, as I didn't set my cultural goal early enough. I also didn't feel I could get away with adopting pacifism and a state religion, though in retrospect I should have tried.

Bottom line is that anything above Monarch is still to hard for me! Still, it was an interesting set up and I admit I was surprised at how fast the AI teched to victory.

 

[sockaka]

Failed to be the first to get the Music for the GA, now go for the Liberalism, by the time, Roosevelt is the tech lead, he got the Education before me, luckily, he then go for the Economics path. I was the first to get Liberalism 980 AD, Nationalism for free. didn't stop reaserch at that monment, trade all the other tech untill get the Democracy 1210 AD.

Then 90% money to Culture. build temple every other city. Then Confucian Academy,Taoist Pagoda,Islamic Mosque..

The whole game is peaceful, I still build a lot of military units to make sure we are not too weak.

The 3 culture city is balance enough. at about 700 culture per turn. 1st city reach 50000 at 1806AD while the other 2 expand 2 turns later at 1810AD.
During the game, 2 GS and 3 GA born, the last GA born in 1745 AD is not used.

At the Late game, just next next next turn...waiting for the culture grow. by 1812AD Roosevelt just finished some small parts of the Space Ship. guess he need tens of turns to launch.

 

[damnrunner]

Space win 1830's

I had a fairly slow start but managed to grab a lot of land. My economy was crap but I started cottage spamming and was able to get Astro 1st. I traded this around and then went for other high value techs which I traded to fill in all the stuff I had missed.

By 1500 I switched civics to democracy, free market, liberalism, emancipation. The hammers from cottages really helped at this point and I was able to buy a lot of needed infrastructure in which I mainly focused on science boosting buildings. Shortly thereafter I had the highest commerce and population in the game.

I previously considered going for the UN but as the game had been 100% peaceful it looked like a real crap shoot as to who would vote for who. Everyone liked me, but they also liked each other a lot as well.

Going for space was tough with no Aluminum. I used my 1st golden age pretty early to work on the internet, the Apollo Program, Iron Works, and to tech to Fusion. I also built one of the hit XXX wonders at this point as I was having some happiness issues.

The internet gave me a a few of the needed techs for spaceship parts and allowed me to focus on exclusive space ship techs. Once I had the needed tech I used my Iron Works city to built the Space elevator and I used a GE and cash from tech trading to finish it quickly. I also started my 2nd golden age while working on the Space elevator.

The AI was very close at the end but I benefited from being 1st to fusion by a pretty large margin. In fact when I finished Apollo Mali already had all but 2-4 parts of his space ship finished.

At the end I delayed finishing my last part by 1 turn to pick up future tech 1. Not sure how many extra points this netted, and if I miss a medal by one point that would suck.



Problems:
-In the mid game I rebuilt my capital (to a more centralized location ) but never built the forbidden palace. I could have greatly reduced maintenance that way.

-I used my old capitol as a GP farm. Yes it had a ton of food, but so did other cities. If I had cottaged it at the get go I could have had a lot more commerce in the early/mid game.

-My timing on completing the last spaceship part was not ideal. It was the engine (I believe) which I built it my 2nd highest production city. Due to delaying too long on paving over cottages with workshops it took one turn longer than needed. However, I really should have built it in my Iron Works city. I would have started it much later, due to finishing the elevator, but the city had crazy production and lots of forests to chop. I ended up building a part that needed less production in the Iron Works city and the city sat around idle for the last 5 turns or so.

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I tried the Adventurer Class save at Emperor Level. And in a peaceful world where no wars ever broke out, Mansu Musa won the Space Race in 1866. I was busy trying for a cultural victory, but was a bit too slow. (Playing on after the official end of the game, I was able to get Kyoto, Edo and Osaka to legendary status in 1882.)

A fair effort, I guess, but with enough mistakes along the way to make the difference. Among them was being three turns too late to Liberalism; I shouldn't have traded Education so quickly, despite being desperate not to be left behind in the tech race. I also didn't focus sufficiently on cottaging my three culture cites. And when a late barb city was founded on the edge of the map, I hurried my attack before letting it grow to size two, accidentally destroying it in 1220, instead of capturing it. Another barb city arose in the same spot; that one I was patient on, capturing it in 1390. I needed this city for the final temples that allowed cathedrals (of five different religions) in all three of my culture cities.

After adjusting for the Adventurer Class, a pathetic score of 2557.65 points.

 

[damnrunner]

I replayed the start and think I found a pretty optimun way to go.

Settle 1NE - Start worker, start teching hunting

Border pop will get a hut

Once you get hunting switch production to a scout and work a forested plains (4 turns). Start teching AH.

When scout is done switch back to worker. The worker will be done 1 turn before AH is done.

At 3200BC I finished AH and had popped 4 huts for sailing, Ag, a map, and 52 gold.

With this good start start I played a bit sloppily and by 500BC had just teched Alpha (1st there) and had 5 cities. A 6th was on the way and I was building/chopping axes to capture a few from barbarians. I had also picked up another 1 or 2 huts in the intervening years (gold and XP I think)

I won't play it through again but this was a much better start.

 

[MacBalt]

Asoka Nuked Me!

Okay, well... I probably deserved it, but still!

Space Loss to Asoka in 1858, but not before I took down three or four of the pathetic little two-faced peacemonger's core cities.

It took me so long to take out Washington, Hatshepsut, and Roosevelt that by the time I got to Asoka he had finished his spaceship engine and only had two relatively cheap parts to go. Learned a lot in this game about warring from a technical disadvantage though. Roosevelt's Infantry and Artillery went down to my cannons and rifles surprisingly easily, and (thanks to a near-monopoly on oil) even Asoka's mechanized infantry wasn't enough to prevent my tanks and infantry from carrying out a delightfully destructive Sherman-esque march to the sea through the core of his empire. (Okay, there might have been a few nukes involved too... ...but that cheeky little bastard pushed the button first!) Sacking Delhi felt particularly satisfying after watching him fry Kyoto.

Quirky map. With the late-game resources distributed the way they were, I got delusions about going for conquest. In hindsight, I'm pretty sure I could have gotten domination had I changed strategies earlier. Guess raising all those cities might not have been, er, optimal after all. Even so, by the end I had over 50% of the land area. Oh well... next time I'll follow Fluroscent's lead and target Grenadiers before Rifles.

By the way, great game Fluroscent! Thanks for the insightful write-up too! My vanilla game just got a little better.

Thanks to Jesusin and the pre-game thread writers too, for getting me hooked on this... for, what, 40 something hours? hmm...

 

[Bugg123]

So Tokugawa the peacful continued his way towards diplo after almost giving up hope on turn 50.

Turns out an insignificant setback like the one I had didn't really matter that much ( Previous post )

Delayed Liberalism a lot trying to finish off some other techs first, but once my education monopoly was lost I figured there was no time to lose, and finished Lib in 920AD. At that point I was 2-5 techs ahead of all the AIs except Rosevelt who had gotten the furthest along the bottom part of the tree (He had Banking + GP, I had Nat + Lib).

Playing from diplo from this point was relatively easy given that most AIs would like me a lot from having civics I needed to have anyways (Universal Sufferage and Free Market). My opponent would be Cyrus the way things looked all game, and that didn't change.

Didn't play as well as I should have as usual (mostly researchnig techs I really should've known I didn't have to and thus losing some techtrade opportunities). In the end I was still comfortably ahead on techs all through Radio.

Built the UN in 1680AD and got the win in 1720AD. Not paricularly good, and not hopeless, although I would've liked to know how fast I could've really done it...

A very peaceful game with no wars at all, and with everyone very friendly to me throughout the game. So as I suspected, Tokugawa is really a nice and friendly type once you get to know him

 

[kcd_swede]

At 500AD I was pondering an eventual assault on Washington, as mentioned here.

First wave Samurais & cats. Then a long peace, followed by Cavalry charge to finish him off. I think that's the first time I've ever eliminated an AI in an Immortal (or higher) level GOTM.

But I set this game aside at 1625AD after Washington's last city fell because I knew that everything good that I was to accomplish this game was already finished. I see SAM infantry all around me and I don't even have chemistry.

After BOTM is finished, and a small recess from civ, I figure that if I don't finish this now I will not finish before deadline (which would be another first for me). So I raced through the rest of the game, automated workers, select the "recommended" building to build in every city when prompted, and hit enter in rapid succession. This actually worked out not so bad, and I managed to get to Mass Media before the UN was built, but FDR built the thing on the very next turn (he had like 1 or 2 spaceship parts left to build). Funny thing though... I am now the 2nd largest civ and so even if I'd built the UN, it would be the same contest... FDR vs Tokugawa.

He won the vote easily, only Toku voted for Toku. I do some quick diplo fixes and eagerly await whether FDR will win Diplo or Space race. When diplo victory vote comes up, I'd managed to block his victory with help from my DP buddy Cyrus. 2 turns later FDR completed the spaceship and game over 1852AD.


The good:
The city I gave to Rooseveldt for peace got razed by barbs, and I got to resettled the gems.
I killed Washington, capturing 11 cities.
I had highest GNP, highest food, largest land area, and 2nd highest population at games end.

The bad:
Messed up tech path early, not getting Pottery before Alphabet.
Economic retardation most of the early game, due to overexpansion and late getting Hereditary Rule.
Blindsided by Rooseveldt in the BC years.

The ugly:
I see some of you popped pottery (and other techs) from a hut... I have an entirely different game if I did that. I got a map. Could someone please clarify in their spoiler how they managed this amazing skill? I'm clearly not worthy to be in the same competition.
I think I played too slowly and carefully rather than relying on instincts. Result: 5 whole hours sunk into a loss.

But it was a fun loss and good experience for Immortal level play, so I enjoyed it and thank the game designer for a nicely thought out map.

 

[MacBalt]

I see some of you popped pottery (and other techs) from a hut... I have an entirely different game if I did that. I got a map.

I think I actually popped Pottery from a hut too, but I remember being less than properly jazzed because I was already researching it with only 2 or 3 turns left to go.

I think I played too slowly and carefully rather than relying on instincts. Result: 5 whole hours sunk into a loss.

Amazing what having "5" in the denominator instead of "40" can do for one's return on investment! I just cannot seem to play this game fast. Too foolishly romantic I suppose... (...or just plain too foolish!)

 

[The-Hawk]

Built the UN in 1680AD and got the win in 1720AD.

Well done. I beat you to UN (completed in 1625). However, Cyrus and Asoka had a Buddhist block and I could not get enough votes. I even switched to Buddhism in the hope Asoka would vote for me because of Civics. However, by then Asoka and Cyrus had a defensive pact and he staying in Cyrus' camp. I eventually gifted Bio to Hatty and she slowly crawled past Cyrus in population. Once she did, Cyrus and Asoka voted for me and I got my diplo victory. Unfortunately, I didn't get it until 1780 AD . Funny thing was, I never was Secretary General (Cyrus still held the position, the SG election had not come up since Hatty passed him in population). However, for some reason, Cyrus called for a UN diplo victory vote even though it ended up being between Hatty and me .

I really hate playing for diplo, too many times the religious situation screws you up.

 

[kcd_swede]

I think I actually popped Pottery from a hut too, but I remember being less than properly jazzed because I was already researching it with only 2 or 3 turns left to go.


Amazing what having "5" in the denominator instead of "40" can do for one's return on investment! I just cannot seem to play this game fast. Too foolishly romantic I suppose... (...or just plain too foolish!)

True... I could have teched pottery in a reasonable amount of time and then not getting anything useful from huts matters a whole lot less. I should also point out that the 5 hrs is due to war logistics... first defending from FDR then taking Washington. I did not waste too much time with strategy and planning this game. Maybe I should have.

 

[Bugg123]

The-Hawk:

Cyrus+Asoka formed the same Buddhist block in my game, I guess I was just more fortunate in that I didn't need to worry about it due to the size of the other civs.

Sometimes diplo just frustrates you to no end. Sometimes it's the only viable solution or the easiest solution.

 

[Conquistador 63]

First of all, a big thanks to our mapmaker: a game with all peaceful opponents gave us aspiring immortal players better odds of early survival, while still keeping the challenging aspect of effectively winning the game.

My game was basically split in 2 parts: the first one was played early December, and involved taking Washington's land, roughly up to 1200AD. He was left with 2 distant desert cities.

The 2nd part was played after a 2-week pause and was completely peaceful. I considered keeping my war machine active (Hattie would be next in line) but decided against it as it should take me more RL time, and I was not sure it would lead me to a faster finish (my goal was a fast space win). The only war in this part of the game was the one where I bribed Mansa to attack Roosevelt (the 2 leading AI's in the game). Not sure if it was absolutely necessary, but after that war I got a comfortable tech lead.

Please, whine about your biggest mistake this game...
but also, don't forget to brag about your biggest success!

Well, the win itself was a big enough success. But I was pleased to have learned Ecology (my last space tech) as early as 1735AD. However, it took me 20 turns to complete the space parts, until the 1814AD launch. I can't remember of any normal speed game it took me that long. Ok, lack of aluminum hurts, but surely that is a clear sign of bad city and tech planning on my part. Good thing those AI can't get focused in their objectives. None of them had fusion (and maybe genetics) by the time I had launched.