Civ4(warlords); Questions of an Idiot

[Admiral Kutzov]

A thread for non-game specific questions, for which I can't seem to find easy answers.

This is for general questions, not questions, about "I have 3 cities, what do I do now?" I don't mind others posting questions, just want to keep it to strategic thinking.

Anyway, I plan to come here with my questions and pray for a response from the smart people rather than start a new thread for each of my idiotic questions. Those who respond will get a virtual and a .

For example, I just read aelf's lastest challenge and enjoyed it and learned alot. However, he played at epic speed and I find that about enjoyable as conversing with <censored>. I usually play at normal speed and I'm able to grab both stonehenge and oracle on monarch (don't matter which civ, I can do it given reasonable starts). Based on what I've read, the longer games give you more time to make use of any tech edge you have (for example, the completion of the CS slinger and the use of maces).

Question one is what does one build in their cities with all that extra time on epic and marathon? Is everyone spamming buildings, cottages, wonders? I tend to go overboard and overbuild my military and get in trouble.

Advice appreciated. please use small words in responses.

EDIT 10/31/06 - All my idiot questions after Halloween, will be based on the Warlords patch. They all will be based on my favorite settings which are normal size, continents or fractal, high sea level. Just thought y'all should know

 

[Welnic]

The cost for building everything scales with the rate that you play at. If it would take you 10 turns to build a temple at normal speed, then it will take you 15 turns at epic speed. In both cases the date when the temple is finished will be the same. So if start at 4000 BC in both normal and epic speeds and follow the same build order and work the same tiles in the city, by 3000 BC at both speeds you will have the same buildings and population.

The difference is the warrior that you built on normal only got to move 20 turns worth, on epic he got to move 30. So if you do have a tech edge over someone you have 1.5 times longer to exploit the advantage.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

@welnic, that part I get and understand, however, i tend to overbuild the army and the costs go all to hell. should I be more domestic and build the infra more on longer games?

 

[malekithe]

So if start at 4000 BC in both normal and epic speeds and follow the same build order and work the same tiles in the city, by 3000 BC at both speeds you will have the same buildings and population.

That's not quite accurate. The dates don't quite sync-up. You need to look specifically at turn numbers instead. For instance, after 10 turns on normal it's 3600BC. After 15 turns on Epic it's 3550 BC. You've been able to build the same amount of stuff, but the date's are slightly off.

 

[Tatran]

Question one is what does one build in their cities with all that extra time on epic and marathon? Is everyone spamming buildings, cottages, wonders? I tend to go overboard and overbuild my military and get in trouble.

Ah, the idiots discussion thread.
Don't they teach you anything at the academy?

On topic.
I started playing civ4 at normal speed, went down to epic and now
marathon. The army is the main reason. It's quickly outdated on
everything but marathon speed.
If you can't build anything useful, you're reseaching the wrong techs.
The Alphabet and Currency for research and wealth can be very
handy to overcome this problem.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

sorry, I'm back for more questions.

In civ3 there were the theories of ICS and OCP.

I'm starting to think that 2 squares between cities is optimal in civ4. i know I'm lazy and have minimal net skills, so I ask, are there threads that address this and if so please point me.

I also ask for commentary on this. is it better to have fat plus signs or tighter builds? I know the conditions make this variable, but think dumbass monarch player in your replies.

 

[Meatbuster]

Ok here's what I think of building cities early game. When you build your second and/or third city as close as you can to your capital, it's like "I'm saving money on maintenance now so I can research faster and get an edge now, even though I'll lose out when my cities are big enough". And if you keep cities far enough to get resources and/or have the least overlap, it's like "I'm spending money on maintenance now knowing that someday I'll have a city big enough to work that large area around it."

In Noble or lower, I think building your second city as if it was ICS costs no maintenance yet.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I'm saving money on maintenance now so I can research faster and get an edge now, even though I'll lose out when my cities are big enough".

I agree, but in how many games do you get to this point? i think i'm burning myself by spacing too far apart.

 

[Jarred Darque]

I want to know how the AI does it. The may have 4 or 5 or more cities up, 2-3 military in each. And never seem to have a problem with barbarians? the only differance I can see is that their cities tend to be lower population at first, i.e. moscow for me was lvl 9, but paris was only pop 5. I only had 2 cities..until I took all of his, while he had 5 and was sending a settler out for a 6th

 

[Draino]

I know what you mean, I generally push for a worker on city size 2 and a settler at 4 and push out what I can in between and the AI seams to be able to spread a lot quicker.
Ive also got a stupid question. Primarily, what effects your approval rate?

 

[cabert]

admiral kutzov, it's not civ3 anymore!
The maintenance skyrockets from city number =
your 4th city costs you a lot! The 5th is even more a pain in the wallet...

So I basically build cities only if i need them = big commerce output, or big production ability, or highly needed ressource(s).

Draino, your approval rate depends on happiness and unhappiness in your cities, obviously

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

i should have been clearer in what I was asking. Thanks for the reply cabert, but lets see if I can state the question better. by spacing my cities "too far apart" for resource grab, territory denial, etc, I tend to get burned by barbs or nasty neighbors. I have enough troops to resist, they're just usually in the wrong place and when the cities are spread, I can move them around quick enough to handle multiple threats. i think the point I was trying to make was that I seem to do better with a CS slinger when i closely space my cities. I'm speaking of 3-5 cities here, not ICS like civ3. Did that make any kind of sense?

 

[malekithe]

It depends upon the quality of the land and your goals for the game. If you're surrounded by lush grasslands and abundant resources or you're planning on going for a pre-industrial age win, then you can't really do yourself much harm by placing cities close together. Often, when I'm going for a fast conquest or domination and I have several decent food resources in the area, I'll overlap cities quite a bit to make sure all those powerfull tiles are being worked as much as possible.

The dangers of heavily ovelapped cities don't starting biting you until later in the game. You'll encounter higher upkeep in order to maintain a similar level of research to more loosely spaced empire. You'll also find it hard for any cities to muster enough production to give a real shot at mid-late game wonders or spaceship parts. Also, you find youself having to build more of the basic infrastructure buildings, which is, of course, a waste of resources.

 

[Hans Lemurson]

As for playing at different game speeds, one thing which I have noticed is that the Buikding costs and the Unit costs don't always scale by the same factor (I forget which is more). I believe this is to help balance the changed ratios of troop-movement to civ-development.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Hi all. I've been reading about the synergy of various wonders. Spiral thingy and U of Sankore for example. This really got me thinking about how to crank up the trade routes. I played a few games not too idiotically and had decent results. My questions:
1. Castles, yeah or nay?
2. Why or why for not?
3. Prerequisite or elective?

As background, I have ToA and Colossus and the Glight up. There are two other civs on my continent, one of which is my vassal, the other is my brother in the faith. My capital is running 5 or 6 trade routes with the lowest at +6. Granted its been an easy game, but I'm really pleased with this trade routes game.

i never built castles in vanilla. now I'm delaying econ to keep the bene's going a little longer. Is this a mistake?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

k, nobody liked the last question. how bout this:

monarch, decent resourses, stonehenge and oracle or great wall and pryamids?

which would you do and why?

continents, middle seas, temperate

no stone, no marble in sight

 

[Nestorius]

Monarch, on Marathon, I usually just beeline to Code of Laws after the chariot rush, and build or conquer as many cities as I can while still having a viable tech rate. Wonders are like founding religions... they are fun and gratifying to have, but they just give you an extra handicap for the early game. Build what is natural and pleasing for your people, or what opportunity presents, but they really don't matter.

 

[aelf]

Great Wall might just allow you to build the Pyramids with a GE. Failing that, it might mean a free Great Library. It's a much better investment alone, unless you're planning on a CS slingshot. Frees you up to build other important things like axes.

 

[R.B.]

Can someone answer this question? {sorry if I disrupted anything; i'm not very good at assesing some things} When you zoom out at world map screen, what are those 'new line' and 'new sign' intended for? Are they for strategy planning or something?

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

what are those 'new line' and 'new sign' intended for? Are they for strategy planning or something?

I use them to make notes about what I want to do. i.e reminders of where to put cities, set up for the SOD, etc.

Theyre also good for dotmapping.

now for really stupid questions:

1. are medics cumulative? if you have two in a tile, will they heal quicker than if there's just one?
2. are GG cumulative? if u join more that one to a city do you get +4 experience?