Civ5 coming with Steam enforcement and DRM - will you buy it?

[Toni1]

But since steam is a very high quality one, saying "some are bad" doesn't really justify why you care about it being steam.

I don't, I wish I could ignore it's existance to be frank . As I've already said I prefer GOG.com and GamersGate over all the rest.

Why would I use another?

You shouldn't, nor should I, nor should users of any other DD service they prefer. That's the whole point. Why should I or anyone else who likes other DD service beside steam be bothered with steam and vice versa. We should all be able to use the stores we prefer to buy the games we want. Games should never ever be exlusive to any specific vendor/platform and all stores should sell all games globally without restrictions. Would you have problem with that?

 

[Chalks]

You shouldn't, nor should I, nor should users of any other DD service they prefer. That's the whole point. Why should I or anyone else who likes other DD service beside steam be bothered with steam and vice versa. We should all be able to use the stores we prefer to buy the games we want. Games should never ever be exlusive to any specific vendor/platform and all stores should sell all games globally without restrictions. Would you have problem with that?

It's a shame that they are not allowing distribution via other DD sites, but really, I still fail to see why it is more than a minor irritation. If I go to buy a game at a store and they don't stock it, I'll get it at the store across the road.

 

[Ahriman]

They are, but 2K has control over the central online environ where modders finished materials will be available to download. The question is what will 2K do to stop players from using third party sites to spread content.

BTW, this poster has some amazing foresight! http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5776348&postcount=6

No... 2K has control over *a* central online environment where finished mods will be available to download.

They're not going to be able to stop (nor should they try to stop) fan mods developing on mods like this.

So it seems to me like every bonus edition map and all the unit XML and art from the Bablylonians will be able to be copy and pasted and posted on any fansite.

I can't see how they could possibly block this content without destroynig modability of the game.

 

[Lars_Domus]

Some might say that ignoring the first two thirds of a post can cause you to miss the context.

And I would agree with them. Good thing I didn't ignore the first two thirds of the post wherein you asked the question, then!

Though I would have to see some research backing up your claim that people who think/thought that Civ V would ship without DRM are insane, I didn't address this because I don't fall within that category of people anyway.

When it comes to your claim that Steam is the highest quality and least intrusive DRM, I didn't address that, because a central premise of your inquiry is that I already disagree with it.

Though, if I may be so bold, perhaps you ought to consider whether or not you adequately communicated whatever it was you intended to say in the post in question.

 

[bonscott]

While I don't like DRM I don't mind basic DRM such as a disk check or even registering online on first use.

Bur forcing me to use Steam is over the top and I will not buy my first Civ game in 20 years.

 

[Chalks]

Though I would have to see some research backing up your claim that people who think/thought that Civ V would ship without DRM are insane, I didn't address this because I don't fall within that category of people anyway.

1) Attempt to name me some recent DRM free mainstream (ie, non indy) games.

2) Having failed this, acknowledge that Civ 5 is a modern mainstream game.

3) Form a logical conclusion.

When it comes to your claim that Steam is the highest quality and least intrusive DRM, I didn't address that, because a central premise of your inquiry is that I already disagree with it.

Why would you attempt to respond to a question the premise of which you disagree with, other than to be irritating?

When faced with the question of "Given that Civ 5 was always going to have DRM and Steam is the most popular and a very high quality solution, what alternative would you suggest?" disagreeing with the premise simply renders you unable to answer the question.

 

[millahnna]

I would suggest that game distributors look at their sales data and figure out that invasive DRMs (i.e. the next gen versions of disk check, suckyrom, etc.) create more pirates instead of their intended effect. Old versions of Securom didn't destroy hardware, but the versions rolled out in the last few years have. Steam physically uninstalling software that was validly purchased from a user's PC is, in my eyes, just as invasive. People who never considered piracy have turned to it to literally fix problems they've run into because of invasive DRMs.

I liked the idea of Steam a lot when it first came out; you aren't wrong that in some ways it's preferable to other methods of attempting piracy control and I like the DD method. But after watching it uninstall software completely unrelated to Steam from the PC of a user who had not broken any rules or done anything in violation of his Steam EULA, thanks but no thanks. I have enough registry hacks keeping Microshaft Windoze from calling the the mothership. I don't particularly feel like adding more to keep yet another piece of software from treating its legitimate customer like a criminal.

 

[Lars_Domus]

1) Attempt to name me some recent DRM free mainstream (ie, non indy) games.

2) Having failed this, acknowledge that Civ 5 is a modern mainstream game.

3) Form a logical conclusion.

1) None that I know of. Or... Well, there's that one Prince of Persia game, but whether it can be defined as "recent" is a matter of debate.

2) Yes, why would I debate that?

3) I get that you want me to conclude that Civ V will have DRM... But... 2k has already confirmed that, so what is the point of this exercise?

Why would you attempt to respond to a question the premise of which you disagree with, other than to be irritating?

I was hoping you would counter with some arguments as to why Steam is better than the absence of DRM, seeing as how you were inviting to conversation. That is to say, I thought you would like to discuss the merits of Civ V having DRM as opposed to going without, in the same manner you'd have liked to discuss the merits of Steam as opposed to, say, Impulse.

When faced with the question of "Given that Civ 5 was always going to have DRM and Steam is the most popular and a very high quality solution, what alternative would you suggest?" disagreeing with the premise simply renders you unable to answer the question.

Even if that was what you'd written, my answer would still be the same.

"See, this here Civ V that we've got has DRM, and that was the plan from the beginning. Suggestions?"
"Yes. Remove it!"

 

[snowlyon]

unfortunately, I will be also taking a "pass" on ciV in its current form.
suppose I will be content with cIV and cIII. ~

 

[Samus_au]

...Steam physically uninstalling software that was validly purchased from a user's PC is, in my eyes, just as invasive...

Do you have any links to articles, forums posts etc about this? Not trying to flame or anything like that, just curious as to what the cause was.

 

[Toni1]

It's a shame that they are not allowing distribution via other DD sites, but really, I still fail to see why it is more than a minor irritation. If I go to buy a game at a store and they don't stock it, I'll get it at the store across the road.

Aaargh! How do I explain this so you understand?

The problem is that even if it was available in all DD sites in the world, the way it is now if I bought the game from any of them the game would still require Steam Client to play. If I buy a game from DD service, I want it to use only that stores client and functions. I do not want any additional 3rd party clients or apps to come along with it. Any clearer now?

In short: I...do...not...want...steam...client...in...my...computer.

 

[Luckystrike77]

Steam is worse then the plague! I'll turn to companies like Stardock and Paradox. Wish I didn't love the civ-series so badly, I can't get myself to boycott a game of civ.....

 

[Chalks]

3) I get that you want me to conclude that Civ V will have DRM... But... 2k has already confirmed that, so what is the point of this exercise?

You said that a rational person would conclude that Civ 5 would not have DRM. So you tell me.

I was hoping you would counter with some arguments as to why Steam is better than the absence of DRM, seeing as how you were inviting to conversation. That is to say, I thought you would like to discuss the merits of Civ V having DRM as opposed to going without, in the same manner you'd have liked to discuss the merits of Steam as opposed to, say, Impulse.

It is difficult to gauge the real impact of game piracy on the industry since it is impossible to find an unbiased source of information. However, since companies are willing to undergo significant development effort and inconvenience their customers in order to use it, it seems safe to conclude that the affect or at least the potential effect is severe in the eyes of the game developers.

They clearly think that the DRM is required in order for them to turn a profit from the game. Given that, discussing the merits of the game having DRM compared to being DRM free is as useful as discussing the merits of the game costing $39.99 compared to costing $4.99.

Good for consumers, bad for games company, not going to happen so who cares?

 

[Chalks]

The problem is that even if it was available in all DD sites in the world, the way it is now if I bought the game from any of them the game would still require Steam Client to play. If I buy a game from DD service, I want it to use only that stores client and functions. I do not want any additional 3rd party clients or apps to come along with it. Any clearer now?

In short: I...do...not...want...steam...client...in...my...computer.

So what modern DRM system would you prefer for it to use?

 

[wilebill]

No! I will not buy Civilization 5. This is an unacceptable, rude, and coercive move on the part of Firaxis.

And, there is something else to consider. If the primary means of game distribution is digital, then either there is no paper manual or the paper manual will be one of those contentless mostly pictures 30 page brochures.

Which means, either the players are expected to build a wiki, or the manual will turn into a strategy guide which will likely sell for $19.95 to $29.95.

Or, the game will be sufficiently dumbed down so as to not require any documentation anyway.

I am shocked, horrified, and depressed by this decision. I just did not expect this kind of player shafting from Firaxis. No, I will not buy Civilization 5. It is off my list.

 

[Ahriman]

Which means, either the players are expected to build a wiki

With a game as big as Civ I hardly think you'll lack for online resources to use it.

I agree with Chalks; people expecting a huge budget/huge release game to ship without any DRM are naive.

 

[Luckystrike77]

I feel sorry for the Firaxians. It seems like they are making another great Civ-game, doing their best, but then 2K comes and ruins it all. Most Civ-veterans will abandon the franchise now, what a shame.

 

[Toni1]

So what modern DRM system would you prefer for it to use?

(None would be obvious answer but let's not start another depate over that )Well, what ever the games in the particular DD service use (and none of them want to use steamworks for obvious reasons , they dont want their customers to have to deal with additional (competitors) client). Less the better. It's not my problem if it's cracked day 1. My only concern is my own needs and how I want to play the game. I choose stores with least DRM and that are most lenient about it so I have easiest way around them if I have problems with them.

 

[millahnna]

This forum thread (third post down) has one example of the uninstall phenom.

Some horror stories of different natures here (not being able to play a game offline because you're internet is down? that's garbage). How about the user who had his account deactivated because an acquaintance gifted him a game with a stolen credit card (yeah I know, pick better homies right)? Admittedly, there's some legit debate around that situation but I "love" how the thief wasn't punished just some guy he only knew online who was, at worst, overly trusting of a stranger.

I'd have to ask the boyfriend about the specifics he saw when he was looking for a fix for his problems to get more info; most of this was me listening to him grumble. His anti-virus settings went crazy and his Nero installation got hosed (securom game I'm guessing, probably bioshock). It's the Nero installation that bugs me the most; for a piece of code to assume that the only reason a person would have a copy of Nero is for piracy really, really bothers me.

 

[Samus_au]

I feel sorry for the Firaxians. It seems like they are making another great Civ-game, doing their best, but then 2K comes and ruins it all. Most Civ-veterans will abandon the franchise now, what a shame.

While I'm sure a few wont pick it up, it wont have any real impact. Lets not forget that after the nerd rage dies down, we will still be left with a (hopefully) great game. And when you have a great game that lots of people swear they wont play, this happens.