SalmonSoil
Prince
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 358
The problem with this is that Europe is the place that needs the extra space the most, not giving Europe any more space wouldn't solve the problem.
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Civ5 & Earth maps
- Thread starter Rhye
- Start date
The problem with this is that Europe is the place that needs the extra space the most, not giving Europe any more space wouldn't solve the problem.
The problem is Europe needs more space especially everything East of West Germany
You can enjoy the map in strategy layer if your GPU is that weak, keep in mind that we will likely have Civ V for five years so IMO everyone should be able to play it by then, also keep in mind that Civ V is yet to be optimized so everyone should see performance gains within a year even if they don't upgrade
Thor Macklin
Warlord
Well of course Western Europe is fine, just make eastern europe, asia, americas,
australia, and africa larger. Not by much, but by the same amount that was
used to make western europe bigger.
But since when has there been a size issue for mainland europe? If you properly
manage resources england can be a NASTY force to be reckoned with. My
only issue with the Rhye Europe map is how small eastern europe is.
australia, and africa larger. Not by much, but by the same amount that was
used to make western europe bigger.
But since when has there been a size issue for mainland europe? If you properly
manage resources england can be a NASTY force to be reckoned with. My
only issue with the Rhye Europe map is how small eastern europe is.
The problem is because of 1UPT and the fact that cities are so much bigger now
SalmonSoil
Prince
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 358
Cities are the same size... The only difference is that now they are allowed to fill in the gaps.
Their hex is bigger and IIRC Cities can grow to be more than one tiles
SalmonSoil
Prince
- Joined
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- Messages
- 358
Yes, cities can grow to be bigger, but the average city distance for gameplay purposes still seems to be 4, in fact ciV has even greater flexibility and cities with spaces as small as 3 or even 2 tiles between them can still be decent. Infinite City Sprawl is even a legitimate strategy now. This greater playability for compressed nations combined with RFC's inevitable European resource bonus means that city distance shouldn't even be considered at all for map sizes beyond cIV's RFC map size.
Since cities in CiV expand to best tiles first (i.e., not in all directions at the same time), claiming that they have an average zone (and a corresponding average placement distance) is pointless. If there are good tiles 3 hexes away, they will soon claim them. So if the land is not uniformly rich in all directions (as in Egypt's case), city distance of 4 hexes will be far from optimal. A capital or a wonder city will expand to bonus resources even 3 tiles away denying them the other cities (the ones placed, as you suggest, 3 or even 2 tiles away).
And you can't have cIV city distance with CiV movement points, seriously. It's all interrelated.
SalmonSoil
Prince
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 358
cIV city distance and ciV movement points work in normal ciV games, why won't they work in RFC?
Also, you can swap tiles between cities.
I have so far found no evidence to support the assumption that city distances similar to cIV will not work, and I have been playing ciV.
deanej
Deity
Because of the map? City distances similar to civ4 never worked in Europe in civ4! Europe is the reason Rhye changed the city founding distance to be once tile apart rather than two in RFC.
SalmonSoil
Prince
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 358
Exactly, he compressed the city space. He didn't expand it he compressed it. Seeing as cities in ciV are even better suited to being compressed I don't see why you think that the cities warrant a map size expansion.
Úmarth
Megalomaniac
The patch has fixed my crashing problem. I'll post some 150sc saves soon.
deanej
Deity
Actually they're less suited to being compressed because of the lower tile yields. The city space in RFC wouldn't work if it were not for the resource-heavy map. Indeed, this is why non-European AIs suck: they place their cities way too close together. Plus Rhye did nothing to change the fat cross. You just didn't use most of the tiles your European cities could work.
Thor Macklin
Warlord
Well, after doing alittle comparison with the Rhye map and a real world map I
have found where certain things can be adjusted. I give this suggestion
out because I don't see why we need a HUGE world map, but we do
need one that can give us more realism, which is one of the crowning
glories of RFC.
1. Combine the Rhye Africa and the Standard World map africa together (I have
already done this in CivIV and it looks VERY nice.)
Doing this would also bring it up to proper proportion with the expanded Europe
while not removing living space for european Civs.
2. Add several more rows to North and South America.
(I have found that the American East Coast, Argentina, And Central America,
are all rather squeezed in.)
Now the rest of the world would need to be expanded in order to fit with this, but
doing so couldn't massively slow down the game.
Also, if we're so concerned about city width, here is a solution.
Either increase tile output (but remove the output of desert tiles, I find that
being able to have a superpower based soley on worthless desert tiles is just
silly.) of grass, plains and tiles by 50%.
OR simply increase the amount of food you get from buildings. Or both really.
have found where certain things can be adjusted. I give this suggestion
out because I don't see why we need a HUGE world map, but we do
need one that can give us more realism, which is one of the crowning
glories of RFC.
1. Combine the Rhye Africa and the Standard World map africa together (I have
already done this in CivIV and it looks VERY nice.)
Doing this would also bring it up to proper proportion with the expanded Europe
while not removing living space for european Civs.
2. Add several more rows to North and South America.
(I have found that the American East Coast, Argentina, And Central America,
are all rather squeezed in.)
Now the rest of the world would need to be expanded in order to fit with this, but
doing so couldn't massively slow down the game.
Also, if we're so concerned about city width, here is a solution.
Either increase tile output (but remove the output of desert tiles, I find that
being able to have a superpower based soley on worthless desert tiles is just
silly.) of grass, plains and tiles by 50%.
OR simply increase the amount of food you get from buildings. Or both really.
If you increase the amount of food you get from buildings you will give hammer-rich cities an undue advantage (because they will build them faster and thus grow faster than food-rich cities). If you increase tile yields you will give an undue advantage to empires with more space available (because they will be able to expand more than those with tight city placement), though. In my view there is simply no way you can keep CiV city 'width' at cIV map scale.
Thor Macklin
Warlord
Simple solution to the tile idea. Create 5 new tiles.
City Desert Tile
City Plains Tile
City Grassland Tile
City Tundra Tile
City Snow Tile
Each of these 'city' tiles would have extra food and
hammer output. They could then be added to wherever
there are smaller civs such as the Benelux countries.
Now I fully understand the issue of using a civIV size map with CivV,
which is why I suggested adding the changes to the map I listed.
City Desert Tile
City Plains Tile
City Grassland Tile
City Tundra Tile
City Snow Tile
Each of these 'city' tiles would have extra food and
hammer output. They could then be added to wherever
there are smaller civs such as the Benelux countries.
Now I fully understand the issue of using a civIV size map with CivV,
which is why I suggested adding the changes to the map I listed.
Yours is surely not the most elegant of solutions, but offsetting lack of land with extra resources as it was done in RFC for cIV will not work as planned in CiV due to quantitative resources. Instead of simply raising hammer output for, say, Japan by placing lots of extra Iron resources you will get a world leader in Iron exports, too! Not very good balance-wise (Japan will be able to build enough Samurai to conquer half the world).
deanej
Deity
The other problem with Europe is 1upt. There needs to be enough room to move units around.
