Civ6 Overrandomization.

[MrRadar]

I don't think "overrandomization" is this game's problem, rather it is one of it's saving graces. "Playing the map" taken to extreme, offering you a wild variety of very different starts, where you must lean on everything available to you to get things going. Sometimes a start is legendary without the "legendary" settings, sometimes it just neutralises most or all leader/civ abilities, but so what? You play a blank civ until you get things going and get to use at least some of those abilities.
That being said, probably it would be interesting to start as a nameless civ, a bit like Nomad tribe in HK, and then select your leader/civ when entering Classical, after you've already seen some of your surroundings.

As for the AI science, as things are now, the AI science yield is irrelevant and there's no need to compare your science and AI's science. AI's SV priorities haven't been updated from vanilla to match new SV techs in GS afaik, and AI may go to the Moon t215, but usually it will not launch Exoplanet until after t300 on Deity. And then the only thing that matters is whether they have Aluminium to launch a few Lagrange lasers. Usually they waste Aluminium on units, and as AI has no idea about resource upkeep, they end up with 0 Aluminium, else you can preemptively buy it up from them. Tldr; usually you have time until ~t350ish on Deity until AI SV, on Standard speed and map. That's more than enough time for you to get some victory. If you don't lose before t50 due to an initial rush and you're still on the map past that time, you will most certainly win, if you don't quit too soon and do carry on.

 

[Naokaukodem]

I don't think "overrandomization" is this game's problem, rather it is one of it's saving graces. "Playing the map" taken to extreme, offering you a wild variety of very different starts, where you must lean on everything available to you to get things going. Sometimes a start is legendary without the "legendary" settings, sometimes it just neutralises most or all leader/civ abilities, but so what? You play a blank civ until you get things going and get to use at least some of those abilities.
That being said, probably it would be interesting to start as a nameless civ, a bit like Nomad tribe in HK, and then select your leader/civ when entering Classical, after you've already seen some of your surroundings.

It depends on your level I guess. But I saw a Youtuber who never lost a Deity game before lose against 2 AIs + barbs. Was quite pleasant to see i must say.

As for the AI science, as things are now, the AI science yield is irrelevant and there's no need to compare your science and AI's science. AI's SV priorities haven't been updated from vanilla to match new SV techs in GS afaik, and AI may go to the Moon t215, but usually it will not launch Exoplanet until after t300 on Deity. And then the only thing that matters is whether they have Aluminium to launch a few Lagrange lasers. Usually they waste Aluminium on units, and as AI has no idea about resource upkeep, they end up with 0 Aluminium, else you can preemptively buy it up from them. Tldr; usually you have time until ~t350ish on Deity until AI SV, on Standard speed and map. That's more than enough time for you to get some victory. If you don't lose before t50 due to an initial rush and you're still on the map past that time, you will most certainly win, if you don't quit too soon and do carry on.

I play Vanilla. And, I'm not that much worried about SV, rather on my ability to conquer to catch up. (insane city defense, insane units...) That's basically how I won my Scythia Deity game, and that's basically what Marbozir does when he aims anything other than cultural victory. And yet, some might think he plays suboptimally, but that's because he doesn't give himself the time to think too much to keep the spectator interested.

But yah, I can put on the game merits to need some serious thinking among all what is possible to do. In a phase of brain decompensation I wrote in those very forums to make a game that require a lot of thinking, that break our head. I must say the developpers quite achieved that ! Although it's still too easy for some people. (but they can play "beat the earliest victory" or GOTMs for example, or... multiplayer)

 

[reddishrecue]

You get something like 0.3 science per population point by default. It doesn't increase library output or anything, but you get some yields from population. But that's a very small amount - if you have one envoy point in a scientific CS, then the library will give you the same science yield as the population from a size-10 city.

But yeah, taking a game state and breaking down what all the yields mean is definitely a great way to dig deeper into the game. One of the best mods out there is the one which tells you what each policy card gives you (I forget what the name is off-hand. Better Policy Cards or something?) Anyways, it's not perfect and misses some cases, but it's truly eye-opening to see what impact using the double science adjacency card is vs using a production card or another modifier. If only just to use that as an easy way to see how your empire is split out. For example, if my civ is gaining 80 science per turn, but I see the Double Campus Adjacency card would give +18 science, then I know that I'm currently gaining 18 science from campus adjacency. I mean, duh, that's how the card works, but it just makes you start thinking that nearly 1/4 of my science comes from campus adjacency. If later in the game, that same card is still giving +18 science but now my empire's science is at 150 per turn, then I can see that obviously I'm gaining a lot more from buildings. And thus I can think about whether it makes sense to still run that card, or maybe that card slot on something else.

This is why I like mountain ranges and all the resources that provide nearby bonuses that have been expanded throughout the new frontier passes. I found out putting universities on coasts next to atols increase science per turn in campuses. Never a bad choice to place a campus.

 

[MrRadar]

I play Vanilla. And, I'm not that much worried about SV, rather on my ability to conquer to catch up. (insane city defense, insane units...)

Ah, vanilla was quite a different game, where AI could indeed get a SV before t300. And coupled with the science crazy AI, no resource consumption on units hampering the AI, no distractions with governors or WC... maybe I should try it again?

 

[Bibor]

I play Vanilla.

If you play vanilla, then we are speaking... perhaps not in different Civ 6 languages, but definitely in different dialects. Civ6 vanilla is an unfinished product (gameplay wise). That might be the reason for some of your frustrations.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Ah, vanilla was quite a different game, where AI could indeed get a SV before t300. And coupled with the science crazy AI, no resource consumption on units hampering the AI, no distractions with governors or WC... maybe I should try it again?

The basic game is far superior to Gathering Storm. Rise and Fall is better than GS as well, for this and many other reasons

 

[RuneMask]

Being able to pick your initial resource specialization would be fine

 

[Alaindor]

The basic game is far superior to Gathering Storm. Rise and Fall is better than GS as well, for this and many other reasons

I myself prefer GS to the previous versions. I would agree AI is probably better in vanilla (I would have to check it back) but RF and GS to me bring more mechanics and I enjoy it more with them on, I couldn't go back vanilla (and I also prefer the way of the strategic resources consumption in GS).

 

[Naokaukodem]

If you play vanilla, then we are speaking... perhaps not in different Civ 6 languages, but definitely in different dialects. Civ6 vanilla is an unfinished product (gameplay wise). That might be the reason for some of your frustrations.

In case you don't know, the base game has been patched all along with its expansions, we can even purchase some NFP leaders in it if i'm right. So it has been polished too, and it even has the AI science bias typo.

 

[Linklite]

In case you don't know, the base game has been patched all along with its expansions, we can even purchase some NFP leaders in it if i'm right. So it has been polished too, and it even has the AI science bias typo.

They aren't referring to patches.

 

[Naokaukodem]

[He isn't] referring to patches.

Precisely.

 

[Bibor]

In case you don't know, the base game has been patched all along with its expansions, we can even purchase some NFP leaders in it if i'm right. So it has been polished too, and it even has the AI science bias typo.

Yeah, I'm refering to governors and other stuff like corporations, powered buildings etc. All the things that make Civ6 not a Civ5 re-skin )

 

[Linklite]

Precisely.

Which makes your point moot. Bibor was talking about things that aren't fixed by the patches.

 

[Naokaukodem]

There is features that aren't in the expansions obviously, but i wouldn't call vanilla "unpolished" like it was at its release and all the bugs, missing units and QoL.

Plus the overrandomization i refer to in this thread is present in both vanilla and expanded.

 

[Joch]

I would necessarily say that "vanilla" was unfinished, but having played this game from Day 1 and who bought all the expansions/pack, yes, it is two different games.

 

[Naokaukodem]

And what ? Two different games if you want, but with the same issue as "overrandomization", that couldn't magically disappear with the base that is Civ6 vanilla.

 

[pokiehl]

None of your issues are related to “randomization” but rather appear to be because you don’t quite understand the game.

I think if anything Civ needs more true randomization to enhance replayability and emergent storytelling.

 

[Naokaukodem]

None of your issues are related to “randomization” but rather appear to be because you don’t quite understand the game.

Listen, I explicitely listed in the OP what makes overrandomization, and there is more examples to find yet. I would say rather you have a problem with english, rather than I a problem with understanding the game.

Moderator Action: Please do not troll others through personal attacks. leif

 

[cain3456]

You haven't seen overrandomization unless you've played Civ4. Nothing like losing a battle at 95% odds.

 

[reddishrecue]

Listen, I explicitely listed in the OP what makes overrandomization, and there is more examples to find yet. I would say rather you have a problem with english, rather than I a problem with understanding the game.

Moderator Action: Please do not troll others through personal attacks. leif

Maybe you mean a map that's the same all the time and playable again and again so that you can be able to know what to expect or adjust to.. Its just an example of what not overandomization might look like imho.