Civ6 unpopular opinions thread

[Zaarin]

Of course at the same time if they wanted to give us a strong female leader with cultural abilities they could have just given us Elizabeth I again.

I'm here for it.

I think the dual leader thing is only an issue because of the way it's presented in Civ 6 as well as how important civ and leader abilities are.

I'm not complaining about one civ having multiple leaders; I'm complaining about one leader having multiple civs (i.e., Eleanor and Kublai Khan). Though I wouldn't mourn the loss of alternate leaders altogether if they didn't return.

 

[Aurelesk]

I think the dual leader thing is only an issue because of the way it's presented in Civ 6 as well as how important civ and leader abilities are. Having dual leaders has pretty much always been a thing in the Civ franchise, perhaps more so than it ever was in civ 6. For instance, in Civ 2 every civ had a male and female leader option, but the decision meant nothing at all, so it was in no way an issue.

The dual leaders were a "good" idea that failed:

• It is tricky to give a dual leader a single ability that complement well 2 civilizations.
  • How combine an ability that both encompass Wonderful Culture (France) and Naval Domination (England), or Turtling Culture (China) and Cavalry Domination (Mongolia). It is hard to achieve.
• It feels unfair that some civilizations has more representation than other (France with only 3 leaders? shame).
• Those new leaders will suffer the comparison with the main leaders. Eleanor is not as strong as Catherine or Victoria for their respective civilizations, while the strong Kublai does not synergise as well as the all-mighty Qin or better suited Gengis.
• It is a missed opportunity: they could add a new game mode "Leader & Civilization Switcheroo" in order to play a leader with any civilization, either for getting a good laugh on a full Random game either against AI or online, or adding more replay value (imagine going from 50 civ&lea to 2500 combinaisons).
  • This will need to have every leader to be independent from their Civilization abilities (Jadwiga use Polish abilities: this cannot work), and huge balance has to be made for every leaders and civilizations in order to make it works (people would just pick the top 5 leaders with the top 5 civilizations and, somehow, end with a poorer game). This means not having strong civilization with bad or handicapping leaders (like Mvemba A Nzinga) or weak civilization where you need to focus on the leader ability to make it work (this used to be France: more Wonders and modifiers, flexible UI and better/lined UU made France abilities usable). This game mode needs too much effort for low results.

Unpopular opinion?

I don't believe I have one. Maybe on the Harvest mechanic? I mostly see people argue either the Harvest mechanic is balanced as it is, or the Harvest mechanic is dumb and should be removed. No in-between. I guess being in the middle is the unpopular stance: Harvest mechanic is fine, but the yield are slightly too big. For example, I want the Harvest to be weaker to the point of allowing to chop second-growth for Production, and people arguing if it is worth it to spend 2 Builder charge to plant/chop woods. It would be also a beautiful catch-up mechanic: people who built fewer Builders would have a lower Cost/Charge value and more willing to do that.

Another unpopular opinion would be to lower Food from Hills by 1 because a Hilly area is always better but nobody would want to have slower start. So far, any of my friends is okay for this. Also: make Desert / Tundra semi-hospitable and have their own strength. For example: 1 Production/Gold for Desert, 1 Food/Faith for Tundra, and flat Desert/Tundra farmable if fresh water available. This is in order to prevent the "you know you lost just by looking your starting area" syndrome. But this is not an unpopular opinion.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

1 Food/Faith for Tundra, and flat Desert/Tundra farmable if fresh water available. This is in order to prevent the "you know you lost just by looking your starting area" syndrome. But this is not an unpopular opinion.

This is way too strong. Tundra is already very good because of dance of the aurora + work ethic, and it's comparatively easy (compared to desert folklore and sacred path) to secure that pantheon and religion combo even when not playing as Russia. Faith is a very strong yield the first 20-25 turns because of how extremely important it is for securing a good pantheon, as well as later fuel for monumentality. I've had games as a random civ (like Portugal) that ended up being super good because of tundra, and if this went through for tundra, I would be hoping for tundra every damn time as the snowball potential is just that huge.
If anything, work ethic needs to be nerfed, as tundra is a very strong terrain type already because of it. Buffing tundra instead is the wrong approach here.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not complaining about one civ having multiple leaders; I'm complaining about one leader having multiple civs (i.e., Eleanor and Kublai Khan). Though I wouldn't mourn the loss of alternate leaders altogether if they didn't return.

I personally wish that we would get more civs with alternate leaders in future games because that at least changes the way certain civs play by giving us more choices.
For example Greece is definitely geared toward being a culture civ though the path is different depending on if you choose Pericles (diplomatic approach) or Gorgo (warmonger approach).

 

[Jeppetto]

It is a missed opportunity: they could add a new game mode "Leader & Civilization Switcheroo" in order to play a leader with any civilization, either for getting a good laugh on a full Random game either against AI or online, or adding more replay value (imagine going from 50 civ&lea to 2500 combinaisons).

Why mode, make it canon. If I can have nuclear Ghandi leading India through faith in Shintoism and under iron first of Fascism, changing it to leading France instead doesn't hurt. Civilizations with gameplay-changing identity bonus and Leaders with minor benefits off taking certain path (Civ with faster District Production under certain circumstances vs Leader who simply gains benefit whenever District is built). And choose Civ and Leader separately. Would open way for Civs without good leader choices, add more replayability, justify cost of Leaders and Dual Ability system.

 

[Krajzen]

If I can have nuclear Ghandi leading India

Nuclear Gandhi is not a serious argument regarding any subject, because it is a fanservice joke easter egg made specifically to be as ridiculous as the famous ancient bug.

Which leads us to my unpopular opinion: I hate this joke with oassion because of a) How tired and monotonous it is and b) How it honestly disrespects and overshadows Gandhi as a real person.

Which is why I'd personally remove him from next several iterations of the franchise, giving India some fresh industrial or sciencey or merchant or war leaders to finally not make AI of this civ always behave the same, and finally introduce India in some other way for Western public than 'Maurya ancient' and 'modern after 1947'

 

[Zaarin]

Nuclear Gandhi is not a serious argument regarding any subject, because it is a fanservice joke easter egg made specifically to be as ridiculous as the famous ancient bug.

Which leads us to my unpopular opinion: I hate this joke with oassion because of a) How tired and monotonous it is and b) How it honestly disrespects and overshadows Gandhi as a real person.

Which is why I'd personally remove him from next several iterations of the franchise, giving India some fresh industrial or sciencey or merchant or war leaders to finally not make AI of this civ always behave the same, and finally introduce India in some other way for Western public than 'Maurya ancient' and 'modern after 1947'

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. I think Firaxis devs are the last people to not realize the joke isn't funny anymore.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

meh I don't care about nuclear Gandhi joke. I'll agree that it has been done to death and I wouldn't be upset if they replaced Gandhi with other indian figure in civ 7 but I wouldn't be upset if they kept him.

 

[aieeegrunt]

You can keep the Nuclear Ghandi as a joke or easter egg without it affecting the leader properties

This is way too strong. Tundra is already very good because of dance of the aurora + work ethic, and it's comparatively easy (compared to desert folklore and sacred path) to secure that pantheon and religion combo even when not playing as Russia. Faith is a very strong yield the first 20-25 turns because of how extremely important it is for securing a good pantheon, as well as later fuel for monumentality. I've had games as a random civ (like Portugal) that ended up being super good because of tundra, and if this went through for tundra, I would be hoping for tundra every damn time as the snowball potential is just that huge.
If anything, work ethic needs to be nerfed, as tundra is a very strong terrain type already because of it. Buffing tundra instead is the wrong approach here.

“Tundra snowball potential”

Doo do dooo do doo doooo *trombone noises*

Nice one

It’s absurd how long stupidly broken stuff like Monumentality has been allowed to exist without being balanced. I’d love to see this team try to make a competitive class based FPS or something, it sould make Overwatch look like Halo

My Unpopular Opinion; every addition and expansion to this game, except maybe for a few of the civs made it worse

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

“Tundra snowball potential”

Doo do dooo do doo doooo *trombone noises*

Nice one

It’s absurd how long stupidly broken stuff like Monumentality has been allowed to exist without being balanced.

You can joke all you want, tundra can be a strong start in a lot of cases, even if the raw yields are less than grassland/plains. Tundra starts (as long as I get dance of the aurora) are a lot easier to pull off for me and snowball from.
The yields arent terrible compared to desert, the pantheon is rather uncontested, the tundra starts among the safest on deity due to generally a lack of neighbours (and more settling space), and the combination of work ethic, monumentality and faith buying districts with Moksha, make for a very strong early power spike.

Buffing tundra further will make it into one of the absolute best possible starts to get.

 

[Leucarum]

the pantheon is rather uncontested,

Interesting. I guess it depends on how early you push religion, how many AIs are in play... but anecdotally for whatever reason I usually find sacred path is the easiest of the "terrain" pantheon to secure. If Russia is in the game then dance of the Aurora is gone and lots of the AI will snap it up if they see even a hint of tundra (in my games)

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

but anecdotally for whatever reason I usually find sacred path is the easiest of the "terrain" pantheon to secure

I sure want to trade for your luck on that pantheon!
Just had an awful streak as khmer where I intended to play with sacred path, and after about 4(!) hours of restarting I eventually just gave up, haha.

Most infuriating thing - seeing Kongo(!!!) consistently pick sacred path.
Really makes me want to throw my computer out of the window, seeing as they can't even build the damn holy site to begin with.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I sure want to trade for your luck on that pantheon!
Just had an awful streak as khmer where I intended to play with sacred path, and after about 4(!) hours of restarting I eventually just gave up, haha.

Most infuriating thing - seeing Kongo(!!!) consistently pick sacred path.
Really makes me want to throw my computer out of the window, seeing as they can't even build the damn holy site to begin with.

Think of it as the "Kongo in the Manger" mechanic: "If I can't use it, ain't nobody going to use it!!"

 

[Aurelesk]

This is way too strong.

Absolutely, you are right. It would be incredibly unbalanced. But why it would be? Because Tundra was absolutely garbage for a long time. Do you remember a Vanilla Tundra start? Back then, Dance of the Aurora was not seen as the first picked Pantheon, because early Faith didn't have a use (except for early Missionary rushes ready to kill foreign Religion at birth). They tried to add new ways with Monumentality and the change of Work Ethic. Except... it is unreliable:

• Monumentality, the best Dedication in the game (no contest) was added in order to give early Religious paths some helps. Except, it also helps anyone with faster Builder and cheaper Builder/Settlers. Everyone wants to improve their lands and settle their cities as fast as possible. You still need to unlock a Classical Golden Age. If you don't, your stockpiled Faith will have no purposes.
• Work Ethic changes, which is, to this day, still debated if it's too powerful or not. But you need to pick it: if it is already picked, you are doomed too (for me: Work Ethic is an average belief which became overpowered when you managed to align all the requirements).

What I hate about this, is the RNG or the racing element to it. You didn't have luck with Tribal Villages or nearby Barbarian Outposts? Enjoy your Normal Age with no Monumentality. You struggle to get Faith for the Pantheon pick? Dance of the Aurora is gone. Your Production is too low and didn't managed to get one of the first Prophets? Work Ethic is gone.
When everything align, a Tundra start is incredible. But it is unreliable.

It is a design choice. Should be the game balanced around unreliable opportunities in order to give a "reward" mindset even if unbalanced when everything is lining up, or give instead a more stable but dull way to everyone that would end on a set of couple of strategies when starting in those region without feeling robbed.

In case the Tundra become the 1 Food and 1 Faith tiles with no Production (or Hills became 1 Food and 1 Production with no Faith), the game will need to take that into account and balance around it. For example, a less all-mighty Monumentality, and either a change on Dance of the Aurora (+0.5 Faith? +1 Faith on wooded Tundra? +1 Faith on unimproved Tundra tiles? +1 Faith on Tundra with no district?..) or Work Ethic (Production à la Choral Music? ignore Scripture?..)

 

[aieeegrunt]

You can joke all you want, tundra can be a strong start in a lot of cases, even if the raw yields are less than grassland/plains. Tundra starts (as long as I get dance of the aurora) are a lot easier to pull off for me and snowball from.
The yields arent terrible compared to desert, the pantheon is rather uncontested, the tundra starts among the safest on deity due to generally a lack of neighbours (and more settling space), and the combination of work ethic, monumentality and faith buying districts with Moksha, make for a very strong early power spike.

Buffing tundra further will make it into one of the absolute best possible starts to get.

Oh I wasn’t disagreeing with you, my inner Joker just could not resist that line

 

[Zaarin]

You can keep the Nuclear Ghandi as a joke or easter egg without it affecting the leader properties

Not if he's the leader of India...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Nuclear Gandhi is not a serious argument regarding any subject, because it is a fanservice joke easter egg made specifically to be as ridiculous as the famous ancient bug.
'

Not if he's the leader of India...

I feel like even if they gave us a new leader for India in Civ 7, and that's a big if, they would create a new type of Great People, such as a Great Philosopher, and have Gandhi, as one of them, grant your civilization uranium or nuclear weapons just for the fun of it.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

To be fair in the games that had multiple leaders, India was one of the nations with them (Asoka in Civ 4, Chandragupta in Civ 6)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To be fair in the games that had multiple leaders, India was one of the nations with them (Asoka in Civ 4, Chandragupta in Civ 6)

Agree. To clarify what I said is that if we do happen to get another leader for India, I still highly believe it would be alongside Gandhi as well.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Not if he's the leader of India...

By easter egg I mean a reference or graphic in the game somewhere, not a core mechanic