CivDip XVII: Radio Free Europe

[slappy]

I'll wait another 24 hours after the build deadline to hear a "no" from kitten on the draw. Otherwise, I think that will be that.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

I'll wait another 24 hours after the build deadline to hear a "no" from kitten on the draw. Otherwise, I think that will be that.

I accept the draw proposal with great relief.

 

[slappy]

That makes it final and official! Radio Free Europe ends in the Winter of 1908 with a three-way draw shared among:
Keirador (England), Taliesin (France) and kittenOFchaos (Turkey). Congratulations to all.

Thanks for playing, everyone. If anyone feels like writing a quick EOG, please feel free to do so here. I'm closing the game forum to further posting, but it will remain up for reading for a little while longer.

 

[Keirador]

Meh. I really thought France was going to keep fighting Turkey, and I would have shared a two-way draw with him for being a good ally. If I'd known he was going to ACTUALLY DRAW, I would have stabbed last year, or the year before. I feel pretty unsatisfied.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

I feel unsatisfied that everyone near me wanted to fight me, then failed to beat me. I felt like I played the role of an angry fly banging into the inside of a jar all game in a bid for freedom.

The England/France carve up was surprising given that conclusive diplomacy between the two was pretty non-existant and even hostile.

Personnally I couldn't get over how badly Germany and the first Austria played or for that matter Russia. My early initiative was to simply ask for a Juggernaut, Russia responds by telling the World he'll fight against me. Result I say I'll defend Armenia - hoping to not have to and more interested in the Black Sea. Russia promptly goes into Armenia, I get the Black Sea.

Then I tell Austria I'm going to help them out regarding Greece and they take Greece and then they go for me just as I have destroyed a Russian fleet - madness. Italy joins in and ignores French expansion and Austria disappears and Italy can't even begin to finish me off and gets invaded by France having left no-one at home.

I survived as England and France hadn't split spoils fairly, England being far stronger and that England would have the solo if France had to fight Turkey as England could then rely on support to do the solo from me. Result 3 way draw.

Don't think much of the format of this particular game (gunboat with open diplomacy) nor of the future of civfanatic diplomacy - we don't have option to be selective about who gets in the game and we have too many people who just disappear or bail, or can't keep to simple deadlines.


A big thanks to Slappy who in this and the Gunboat diplomacy game has done a great job as GM

Well done to Keirador for having glided to victory in my mind (England 1st, France 2nd, Turkey 3rd) without even having to break sweat or do anything particularly skillful - maybe just not be objectionable or show any balls - something that I refused to do.

 

[slappy]

Thanks, kitten! I have to agree with you on the state of the CivDip community. Despite a few very reliable players like Gnarfflinger and others, there's still way too much aggravation in trying to keep a game going smoothly over here. I think that, after Gunboat Fun wraps up, I'll be doing all my dipping over on Redscape.

 

[Keirador]

Thanks for GMing slappy. An interesting game concept, but one that appears to have worked out far better in your Redscape game than here.

France and I got on so well because we weren't really allies, we just stayed out of each other's way. Both of us had weaker neighbors to go after and consume, it made little sense to bog down expansion by fighting a player capable of defending themselves.
kitten, your being objectionable and showing balls was what gave you away so easily: no other player provokes hostility for no reason. In my opinion, your exceptional tactical skill alone is what saves you, diplomatically you seem never to fail to isolate yourself and make everyone either an enemy or, at minimum, happy to see someone else kill you.
I do agree, though, that I didn't have to work very hard, or indeed at all, to gain predominance. The only thing that stopped me in this game, as in Gunboat, was that I unwisely eliminated the weaker players before the stronger players, resulting in an eventual ending alliance capable of stalling me. I believe that in future, if I simply immediately sought the destruction of players capable of forming stop-the-leader coalitions, I would win far more often.
That won't be an issue addressed here at CivDip, though. Though there are several solid, skillful, reliable players here with whom play is quite enjoyable, there aren't seven of them. Without drastic change, I have no real desire to join another CivDip game. However, seeing as I have no affiliation with any other diplomacy-playing body, if CivDip sends a team to the World Tournament thingy, I'd be happy to participate. My initial thoughts for participants would be kitten, Magnus, slappy, Taliesin, Stapel, Arminius (who according to his member profile is indeed still active at CFC), and myself. Flatlander Fox reappeared briefly, would he play?

 

[slappy]

Thanks for GMing slappy. An interesting game concept, but one that appears to have worked out far better in your Redscape game than here.

Actually, I'm not totally sure how well it worked at Redscape either. In the early-to-mid game, the diplomacy was a lot more dramatic than anything we saw in RFE, but there were no major surprises or strategic twists until I tried to stab my ally, which was quite exciting for a little while, but things soon settled into a long tactical grind with no more real diplomacy to speak of (I eventually conceded the solo to that ally). Still, each game in any variant is unique with unique players and dynamics, so I think I'd have to try broadcast-only out one more time as a player in order to make up my mind.

 

[Taliesin]

Last year I played a PBEM as France, in which I had a very successful EF alliance. I ended up losing, mostly because I allowed Austria to grow too large, but I wanted to try it again and correct my errors. As it turned out, I knew I could trust Keirador (whom I identified from the very first turn) to be a good and dependable ally, at least until the late midgame. I adopted a strategy which only France is really capable of pulling off, which is to take my neutrals and refuse to do anything to provoke any other powers. This worked surprisingly well, mostly because Austria, Italy, and Russia seemed to actually care about "punishing aggressors" and "restoring peace to Europe". So when Germany thoughtfully invaded, I just told him to get out, which I knew he couldn't do, and then got all offended and aggrieved. Austria and Italy both not only let me position armies in their vital territories, but actually helped me to do it. Once Germany had reached a critical point of weakness, I used those very armies to attack an apparently unsuspecting Italy. I have to admit, I got lucky, because that assault would have taken a year or two longer without his NMR that let me put armies in Venice and Apulia.

So Italy reached that critical point of weakness fairly quickly, and I knew I had to move on. Near the beginning of the game, I wasn't certain whether I'd take on Austria or Turkey. Turkey was an appealing target, because I knew it was kitten. But by this point, Austria was clearly a much better and easier target, so I set about broadcasting a no-nonsense anti-Turkish alliance. Luckily Austria didn't notice that I never actually did anything anti-Turkish, but was always acting to get my forces in a "good position"-- to swallow Austria whole.

In short, France's success was largely the result of Austria's and Italy's decisions; I also got lucky when Keirador thought I was lying about the draw.

Many thanks to slappy for patiently GMing this one, and also to our tenacious subs, because the game would have been pretty weird had people not been willing to assume hopeless commands.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

kitten, your being objectionable and showing balls was what gave you away so easily: no other player provokes hostility for no reason. In my opinion, your exceptional tactical skill alone is what saves you, diplomatically you seem never to fail to isolate yourself and make everyone either an enemy or, at minimum, happy to see someone else kill you.

I'd agree with that to a certain extent that my tactical ability is greater than my diplomatic ability, though I can point to numerous successful alliances and partnerships between my games here and Redscape. My problem here was just a certain amount of frustration at the niceness everyone was showing and the hedging of bets and just a general lack of a direction - of my neighbours.

I'd give you the diplomatic trophy of civfanatics any day of the week Keirador, I just haven't the patience of a Saint that is required


Well at the moment I'm fully committed gaming wise to rugby union and Civ4, if you ever are on the Civ4 ladder look out for DeviousDevil (my handle) as I'm doing pretty well

 

[slappy]

To the best of my recollection, I think that I felt some degree of sympathy for kitten as I watched his neighbours tiptoe around each other. Something similar to this did happen in the game I played on Redscape, where one power finally got fed up with the shifting statements of half-alliance and half-warnings against aggression and declared war one one neighbour, alliance with another and things seemed to fall into place afterwards. One reason that might not have worked here is that it seems everyone knew Turkey was kitten and, instead of someone trying to court him as an obviously strong ally, everyone seemed to agree that he was the scariest thing on the board.

I think it would be interesting to see how a group of savvy players who had learned the lessons of that game and this one might approach another match (of this variant) differently. It may well be that the problems are unavoidable, but I'm not quite convinced yet. Hopefully someone over at Redscape will try it again, and I will definitely observe that match with interest.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Mere survival at first. I saw Austria's fate as justice for being a pansy early on, and Nothing I could do to delay the inevitable. And By the time I could say I told you so, I was stepping into Austira's boots...

Early on, I thought that it would be three of us jumping on and eliminating Turkey. That fell apart when Austria number 1 didn't want in on it.

Before Fance finished me off the first time, I warned Austria number 2 that France would go after him after I was finished, but Austria afreed to hang me out to dry a second time.

And I never claimed to be a miracle worker, only throwing myself into the meat grinder to let the game continue, hoping that someone would have mercy on me. When nobody replied to my thread on the site (and my computer when down meaning I lost the address) I sent in my orders and accepted the beat down...

 

[Taliesin]

Yeah, I felt bad about your situation, Gnarf, because by the time you assumed command of Austria, the time for diplomacy that could have changed my plans had passed.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Sometimes you just have to step it to get the game going again and accept the fate someone else has left you...

 

[Keirador]

I'd agree with that to a certain extent that my tactical ability is greater than my diplomatic ability, though I can point to numerous successful alliances and partnerships between my games here and Redscape. My problem here was just a certain amount of frustration at the niceness everyone was showing and the hedging of bets and just a general lack of a direction - of my neighbours.

Yes, I suppose I had it easy because I knew I had something to work with right away- due to his use of French, which I know him to be fluent in, I recognized Taliesin right away, while Russia created a big giant target.

I'd give you the diplomatic trophy of civfanatics any day of the week Keirador, I just haven't the patience of a Saint that is required

I dunno what it is, I'm not even a patient person. In my only current Redscape game, Russia, the only remaining power of any consequence, is sincerely helping me along to imminent victory.

Well at the moment I'm fully committed gaming wise to rugby union and Civ4, if you ever are on the Civ4 ladder look out for DeviousDevil (my handle) as I'm doing pretty well

No Civ4, unfortunately, else I'd be glad to try and match you.

 

[Taliesin]

I dunno what it is, I'm not even a patient person. In my only current Redscape game, Russia, the only remaining power of any consequence, is sincerely helping me along to imminent victory.

And I'd seriously like to know what the hell you've been telling him, because only last year he and I cultivated a concerted plan to stop-the-leader. Apparently now his plan is grease the leader's axles, push the leader on his way, and lay spiked tire traps for the leader's competitors.

 

[Keirador]

Yep, that about sums it up.