Civics in FfH2

[apotheoser]

lol didn't notice this one... honestly I prefer "Slavery" and I think that this civic lets you capture slaves in battle is very important (and fun BTW)

Good point. I should add that back in.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Arete isn't just Greek for "Excellence," "Virtue," or "The Good," it is also English for "a steep mountain range or ridge" (from the French for "Fish bone," from the Latin "arista" meaning an ear of grain, which is thought to have Etruscan origin). Both are appropriate for Kilmorph.

Don't mess with Kael's puns!

 

[apotheoser]

Arete isn't just Greek for "Excellence," "Virtue," or "The Good," it is also English for "a steep mountain range or ridge" (frm the French for "Fish bone," from the Latin "arista" meaning an ear of grain, which is thought to have Etruscan origin)

Don't mess with Kael's puns!

Haha, but that's arête! Wow, I completely missed that... hehe, nice one, actually. With the dwarves and everything.

Also, I feel dumb that I had to have someone explain a pun to me.

 

[apotheoser]

It all looks real good to me, except the no part in this one. After all when running it you're more likely to build the various wonders in the capital so you can beat your opponents to finishing them. So how about a -25% or even -50% in the capital.

Actually, I was thinking. What if instead of a penalty, God-King didn't allow a state religion? After all, if you're the God King... who are these Fellowship of Leaves heretics? Run 'em out of the city!

Edit: Hmm, it seems this wouldn't work with bStateReligion, since that only checks if a civic allows a state religion. There isn't a tag that makes a civic forbid state religions even if another allows it, is there?

 

[Thunder_Gr]

Just for clarification. In Greek, Arete is the word for Virtue(it is pronounced Areti("e" like in "egg", "i" like in "kill")). I do not know about the Latin "Arista", but I know the Greek "Ariston", which means "the Best". I can assume the Latin word to come from the Greek one.

 

[Honor]

"Arete" reminds me of Aristotle and my philosophy courses.

 

[Darksaber1]

Esus in Legal was tricky. I sort of think of the CoE as a shadowy extra-legal group, like an organized criminal syndicate. A Legal civic for them would be almost like some kind of para-military, internal security force that carries out laws and executes dissidents. It's got very cool potential, actually.

I think it would wotk like the Ankh-Morpork Guild. They all but rule the city, and formerly provided the most law enforcment in the city (eg. Thieves guild kept out non-members thieves)

 

[TheJopa]

Actually, I was thinking. What if instead of a penalty, God-King didn't allow a state religion? After all, if you're the God King... who are these Fellowship of Leaves heretics? Run 'em out of the city!

Edit: Hmm, it seems this wouldn't work with bStateReligion, since that only checks if a civic allows a state religion. There isn't a tag that makes a civic forbid state religions even if another allows it, is there?

Vanilla Civ has Free Religion civic which disables state religion...

 

[apotheoser]

Vanilla Civ has Free Religion civic which disables state religion...

That's the thing. It actually doesn't.

By default, you cannot have a state religion. A civic has to ALLOW you to have a state religion. Civics don't explicitly say if they allow you to have a state religion.

So in vanilla Civ 4, the only civics that allow you to have a state religion are Paganism, Theocracy, Organized Religion, and Pacifism. None of the Government, Econ, Legal, or Labor civics enables a state religion.

Thus, if you have Free Religion, you have no civic that allows you to have a state religion. It is NOT what you'd logically think- "Free Religion disables my state religion". Rather, every other Religion civic ENABLES a state religion, while Free Religion simply doesn't enable it.

Now, you might ask, "Why does Free Religion say 'No state '?" Well, that's another weird quirk of the system.

If ANY civic in a civic category enables state religion, then every OTHER civic that DOESN'T enable it will automatically say "No state ".

It's a very weird, counterintuitive system that was obviously specifically designed for the vanilla Civ 4 civics.

 

[apotheoser]

I think it would wotk like the Ankh-Morpork Guild. They all but rule the city, and formerly provided the most law enforcment in the city (eg. Thieves guild kept out non-members thieves)

Like the Mafia?

 

[Xuenay]

That's the thing. It actually doesn't.

By default, you cannot have a state religion. A civic has to ALLOW you to have a state religion. Civics don't explicitly say if they allow you to have a state religion.

So in vanilla Civ 4, the only civics that allow you to have a state religion are Paganism, Theocracy, Organized Religion, and Pacifism. None of the Government, Econ, Legal, or Labor civics enables a state religion.

Thus, if you have Free Religion, you have no civic that allows you to have a state religion. It is NOT what you'd logically think- "Free Religion disables my state religion". Rather, every other Religion civic ENABLES a state religion, while Free Religion simply doesn't enable it.

I might be a bit dense, but... what's the problem in making every civic in the Government category but God King enable religion, then?

 

[Luckmann]

I might be a bit dense, but... what's the problem in making every civic in the Government category but God King enable religion, then?

When you phrase it like that.. nothing.

 

[apotheoser]

I might be a bit dense, but... what's the problem in making every civic in the Government category but God King enable religion, then?

That would work. It just isn't as elegant as I'd like.

 

[TheJopa]

That would work. It just isn't as elegant as I'd like.

It works, and it is described in-game just as it is supposed to. As elegant as it gets.

 

[apotheoser]

It works, and it is described in-game just as it is supposed to. As elegant as it gets.

But there are situations where it would not work, depending on what you were trying to do. For example, if you wanted Cultural Values to deal with state religion in general, but you wanted God King to disable the ability even if another civic enabled it. That doesn't work with bStateReligion.

 

[Daris]

Hmm I always figured that with God King.. you are posing as the God that is your state religion... or as the avatar to that God ((or the only one in the land to be able to communicate with it..)) .. so that it would work with State Religions...

 

[apotheoser]

Hmm I always figured that with God King.. you are posing as the God that is your state religion... or as the avatar to that God ((or the only one in the land to be able to communicate with it..)) .. so that it would work with State Religions...

That's sort of unlikely with FfH2 religions. It's more likely that it's something like Japan/Incan/Aztec et cetera civilizations where the ruler is regarded as a divine entity in his own right.

Not to mention you can change state religions with God King enabled. What, you're Junil one year and Lugus the next?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Just rename God King, really. It doesn't really fir the lore of most FfH civs.

 

[Isotope]

God-King - Low upkeep. Huge bonus to and in capital. No in capital. No in capital. Increased maintenance penalty for distance from capital, decreased for number of cities.

I completelly disagree regarding GP, See Alexandria. I think it should give some sort of culture and/or science bonus in the capital.
I also disagre with God King disabling religions. The king is either a god, an avatar of a god or a reincarnation. Example: faraons were a reincarnations of Horus.
If it's not fit, maybe it could be ranmed to Divine Rule.

Free cities... maybe it should be renamed to Federated Cities or Local Government or Limited autonomy.

 

[apotheoser]

I completelly disagree regarding GP, See Alexandria. I think it should give some sort of culture and/or science bonus in the capital.
I also disagre with God King disabling religions. The king is either a god, an avatar of a god or a reincarnation. Example: faraons were a reincarnations of Horus.
If it's not fit, maybe it could be ranmed to Divine Rule.

Free cities... maybe it should be renamed to Federated Cities or Local Government or Limited autonomy.

The name "free cities" might seem unusual unless you're familiar with the history of "free cities" in the Holy Roman Empire (freie Städte in German). "Free city" is just as much a historical term as a "monarch". So I don't agree the name should be changed.

I also disagre with God King disabling religions. The king is either a god, an avatar of a god or a reincarnation. Example: faraons were a reincarnations of Horus.

Which is exactly why you shouldn't be able to run God-King with specific lore-based religions? Or switch between various state religions with God-King enabled? "Oh now I'm the reincarnation of Junil! Oh wait revolution, I'm the reincarnation of some Council of Esus thing!"

Maybe Lone Wolf is right. The whole concept is pretty screwed up in regards to Fall from Heaven lore. It should just be renamed "Divine Right" or something like you suggest. But preferably a name that sort of explains why the capital would get such a big bonus.