Civics

[Louis XXIV]

I was going to point out the various different Social Engineering options in Alpha Centauri and than think how they might relate to Civ4's civics, but I ended up playing the game instead. As the University, I was engaged in a war against the Morganites, Believers (who were my allies before suddenly hating me and declaring war), and the Hive (who I had crushed really early and they reappeared). I had the Guians (who agreed to follow me in exchange for not destroying them) and the Peacekeepers to help me. The Peacekeepers kept supplying me with units, since I was in danger of loosing to the Morganite armies (another feature that should be in Civ4 ). I don't think I was very prepared, especially for the Probe Teams, but I've at least conquered a city).

 

[Yuri2356]

As the University, I was engaged in a war against the Morganites, Believers (who were my allies before suddenly hating me and declaring war)...

No surprise there. Believers are the natural enemies of the University.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

With the talk of AI personalities, I hope that they are NOT as hard-wired as those of SMAC, as I don't think there should ever be any 'natural friends' and/or 'natural enemies' in a game like Civ-unless you are talking about a Scenario and-even there-I think that any starting enemies/friends should be able to change via gameplay.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Louis XXIV]

No surprise there. Believers are the natural enemies of the University.

I figured that was the reason. We were both in the middle of a war against the Spartans and I was trying to help them out (I think they asked me to declare war originally). Than, all of a sudden, they asked for something and I declined. Next thing I know, they attack one of my ships and I'm at war with them.

 

[Cheetah]

Just to help out Louis (the trick is to load a game you have already won, no fun in playing it ), here is what the Social Engineering screen looks like in SMAC. I expect and hope that it will be something similar in Civ4:

The empty space in the middle is 'Planed Market', which I am not allowed to select because of the faction I play (Morganites). In the beginning of a game you only have access to the four alternatives on the left.

In total it looks like SMAC has 4^4 = 256 different combinations of government. These give different bonuses and problems which can be seen to the right in that screen. In addition you have the tax sliders and the different ideologies of your faction.

 

[Slax]

Cheetah - Having never played SMAC, thanks for that post.

 

[dh_epic]

It's about time someone posted that. I've been asking for it for a while without actually knowing what it is Shows how much you pick up other people on these forums.

 

[oldStatesman]

I like that SMAC console concept - if that is how Civs will work it is a big plus to me. Much better than the 'fixed' governments of Civ3.

 

[Slax]

Those first three categories might make sense in Civ (Politics, Economics, Values), but what is "Future Society"? What could it be replaced by in Civ?

 

[Kosez]

System of Opression?
Law system?
What?

 

[dh_epic]

Politics and Economics are a given. Judging by the inclusion of slavery, that could either tie into a concept of labor, or a concept of autonomy (or sufferage or libertarianism, as others have pointed out). Hard to say. Maybe both labor and autonomy are categories.

 

[oldStatesman]

I like that SMAC console concept - if that is how Civs will work it is a big plus to me. Much better than the 'fixed' governments of Civ3.

Didn't mean to imply use it exactly - of coarse it would be tailored to suit Civ4 - no future stuff, etc.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Actually 'Future Stuff' in Civ4 could be something like Democracy/Communism/Fascism (ie liberty, equality, fraternity; an Ideal your society orients itself around)

 

[mudblood]

From the seven civics we've been told of, I'd guess the five civics types fall out something like this:

Health (Environment)
Economics (Free Market, State-controlled Market)
Religion (Religious Tolerance)
Military (Conscription)
Civil Rights (Slavery, Emancipation, Free Speech)

 

[CurtSibling]

The SMAC system is genius, but I reckon we will get a simplified version, if the developers are wishing to keep the game straightforward.

 

[dh_epic]

SMAC didn't sound too complicated, actually. 4 X 4, with 4 of those being defaults. Sounds like Civ will be 5 X 5 (25 civics). 5 of them will probably be default. I imagine it might seem less complicated because it's more grounded in history, of course.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, my hope was that it was 5x5 civics PLUS 1 default (i.e. starting) option for each category. So long as I can mod the number of categories and options, though, I don't really mind so much !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I know it probably won't be this way, but what would be cool is something like this:
Government: Tribalism (start/default), Monarchism, Republicanism, Socialism and Fascism (not sure about the last two, though).

Representation: Absolutist (start/default), Authoritarian, Heirarchical, Democratic, Participatory.

Economics: Agrarian/Utilitarian (Default), Barter, Mercantilism, Central Planning, Free Market.

Freedoms: None (Default), Slavery, Indentured Servitude, Citizens' Rights (eg: like Apartheid), Universal Rights (i.e. equal rights for all).

Religion: Fundamentalist, Orthodox, Fervent/Pious, Reformist, Ecumenical.

As I said, though, so long as the basic categories and selections can be edited-or added to-then I would be happy!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

OK, I have actually given it a bit more thought, and would probably break it up as follows:

Government form: Tribalism, Monarchy, Republic, Dictatorship, Democracy.
Sufferage: Absolute, Authoritarian, Heirarchical, Constitutional, Representative, Participatory.
Chief Philosophy: None (Default), Fascist, Socialist, Agrarian, Theocratic, Militaristic, Plutocratic (Capitalist/Aristocratic).

Again, as I said above, I doubt it would be like this, but it would be so cool if I could edit it this way!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Civinator]

The article in Computer Bild Spiele reported 25 forms of governement (Regierungsformen). They wrote, that the player can switch the forms of governement at any time. Then this article says: In five categories you build personal focal points: You can select between (now I use the german words) "Freie Marktwirtschaft" and "Staatsbesitz" and between "Religionsfreiheit" and "Gottesstaat". These terms where translated by Locutus to the English words you are talking about. As this are only 4 categories and then the article reported about emancipation, I think this could be the 5th categorie.

When I gave the first quick info at Evo, I didn´t speak about these things, cause I thought, there would be to much confusion if I make a wrong translation. I gave this to Locutus/Apolyton to translate. But Civ4 at this time is a stuff, where even the most acribic civ-professors are in danger of running in speculations.

The article shows, that the magazine did differentiate between forms of governements and categories. I think, the 25 "civics" ( in the translation of Locutus it was the first time for me to hear this term) at this time are a speculation. What is, if the magazine mixed 5 forms of governement (let´s say Despotism, Monarchy, Republic, Democracy and Fundamentalism - but in that article there stood no word of them) with these 5 categories ? What is if they have mixed up 6 forms of governement (let´s say Despotism, Monarchy, Republic, Democracy, Communism and Fascism) with the 4 categories ("Freie Marktwirtschaft, Staatsbesitz, Religionsfreiheit, Gottesstaat") and than added emancipation ? At this time all about the number of civics is speculation.

I hope this helps a little bit.