Civilization 5

[jsweeney]

there should still be communism though
its still a style of government even the u.s has a communist party

unfortunately yes. besides, i don't see a lot of monarchistic theocracies in the world. civ isn't about what happening now its about all of history. If they take out communism, thats censorship of history.

 

[Emperor Kabal]

Well, Socialism is pretty different from Communism...

How so? Both systems is about more government control except one tries to do it peacefully by passing laws and indoctrinating you into believing you need the government to take care of you cradle to grave then you have the latter which is government control by gunpoint, summary executions and the total annihilation of all political opposition. Either way they're both tyranny all the same. Obviously none of you has read the real story behind Communism and Socialism. I got some books to prove that the ideals of Socialism is just a facade for the total control of your lives and what you do with it. I rather die fighting than accept that idealogy.

If Socialism is so great then why is it hundreds if not thousands of people each year from Europe and Canada get health treatment in the US instead of their socialized medicine? Why is it that American average wages are almost twice that of average wages in Europe? I have the facts and I have the numbers folks, want the sources I'll lay them on you. Socialism is not the answer.


But anyway back on topic has anyone tried experimenting with a more dynamic aerial combat system with a mod? Aircraft is pretty lame on the Civ games except maybe for Civ III where it was half-way decent. There's no dogfights in Civ IV. NONE!

 

[Soda7777777]

unfortunately yes. besides, i don't see a lot of monarchistic theocracies in the world. civ isn't about what happening now its about all of history. If they take out communism, thats censorship of history.

They already censor history in civ

 

[Bridog7]

A couple of small things.

I would like more variety in the airforces rather than just fighter or bomber.
I would also like the ability to specifically target intercepting planes rather than just airstriking and being intercepted.

Canals are a must!

Expand a bit more on the random events on BTS. A wider variety of missions too.

Love Civ 4, and especially BTS, Civ 5 doesn't need to change that much in my opinion.

I agree. Good post

 

[Bridog7]

Improve diplomacy and espionage. Also I would want to see the leaders like they are on civ rev were they talk well its basically complete jibberish but whatever.

 

[EmperorFool]

How so? Both systems is about more government control except one tries to do it peacefully by passing laws and indoctrinating you into believing you need the government to take care of you cradle to grave then you have the latter which is government control by gunpoint, summary executions and the total annihilation of all political opposition.

Those features are not endemic to Socialism or Communism. They have existed in Democratic governments as well over the years. Socialism is ownership of the means of production by society as a whole whereas Communism is ownership and control by a central government.

The U.S. has quite a few Socialist tendencies, and the idea that the government should run some central things like police, fire department, national security, health care is not fascist or totally wacko. If you don't think the U.S. controls our population by the use and threat of force, what are all the guns for?

 

[Naokaukodem]

How so? Both systems is about more government control except one tries to do it peacefully by passing laws and indoctrinating you into believing you need the government to take care of you cradle to grave then you have the latter which is government control by gunpoint, summary executions and the total annihilation of all political opposition. Either way they're both tyranny all the same. Obviously none of you has read the real story behind Communism and Socialism. I got some books to prove that the ideals of Socialism is just a facade for the total control of your lives and what you do with it. I rather die fighting than accept that idealogy.

If Socialism is so great then why is it hundreds if not thousands of people each year from Europe and Canada get health treatment in the US instead of their socialized medicine? Why is it that American average wages are almost twice that of average wages in Europe? I have the facts and I have the numbers folks, want the sources I'll lay them on you. Socialism is not the answer.


But anyway back on topic has anyone tried experimenting with a more dynamic aerial combat system with a mod? Aircraft is pretty lame on the Civ games except maybe for Civ III where it was half-way decent. There's no dogfights in Civ IV. NONE!

Wow, a post full of ... sorry but... garbage. Only an american can have your thin view. It's simple, Communism is the extreme left, when National "Socialism" is extreme right. In between you have the moderate right (Sarkozy -the nowadays French president-, USA) and the moderate left. France was ruled during 14 years by François Mitterrand, and it was a good democracy. You can't compare Communism which has more radical solutions to nowadays problems.

Socialism is not for "total control of our lives", it is for better equality. And, to have been under a socialist regime for a great part of my life (France, François Mitterrand), I can say that it works pretty good. Communism is only an extreme version of socialism. And it is better to avoid all form of extremism. Socialism is much more realistic than Communism, as this last one stays a dream. A dream that can turn into a nightmare, as we saw it with CCCP.

 

[[ERS]-Dominator]

I think another improvement would be the ability to trade land and not just cities. I think that in diplomacy mode there needs to be a small map of your border with that country, and you draw the borders you want and then ask them what they want for this or to make your own offer. This could also be used as peace terms. If it was this way, then much more precise land deals could be made.

 

[Soda7777777]

Wow, a post full of ... sorry but... garbage. Only an american can have your thin view. It's simple, Communism is the extreme left, when National "Socialism" is extreme right. In between you have the moderate right (Sarkozy -the nowadays French president-, USA) and the moderate left. France was ruled during 14 years by François Mitterrand, and it was a good democracy. You can't compare Communism which has more radical solutions to nowadays problems.

Socialism is not for "total control of our lives", it is for better equality. And, to have been under a socialist regime for a great part of my life (France, François Mitterrand), I can say that it works pretty good. Communism is only an extreme version of socialism. And it is better to avoid all form of extremism. Socialism is much more realistic than Communism, as this last one stays a dream. A dream that can turn into a nightmare, as we saw it with CCCP.

The strange thing about Sarkozy is a lot of the things he does would be considered liberal in America, yet in Europe he is considered conservative.

 

[Gamemaster77]

Which is exactly why you add more. Right now, with 1 UU, style of play is somewhat dictated by your civ choice. If you're the Persians, a major part of their style of play is being able to attack early with the Immortals. With the Romans, a huge part of their style is utilizing the Praetorians. The same applies with many of the other civs - Egyptians & War Chariots, Sumerians & Vultures, Ethiopians & Oromo Warriors, etc.

By giving each civ 2 or 3 unique units, you no longer are pidgeonholing the playstyle of that civ to utilizing a military force at that specific time period. A Player using the Persians would not feel the need to attack in force early, if they had another UU coming up in Medieval era, for example. While attacking early with Immortals would still be a great option, it leaves the door open.

Again, I don't feel that the game ought to be saturated with unique units. That would really destroy the entire purpose of them. That's why each civ ought to have 2-3...as that still leaves the majority of the game to be played with the generic units, but it also leaves some options open to the player.

You should only be able to use one of them though. You should choose in the civ selection screen.

 

[Naokaukodem]

The strange thing about Sarkozy is a lot of the things he does would be considered liberal in America, yet in Europe he is considered conservative.

I didn't read much about Sarkozy, and the way he is considered in Europe is not the first subject of TV shows. As to the Frenches, they consider him liberal, that's for sure, and he is. Conservative, i don't know, as modern conservatism is more an american (or anglo-saxon) view than a French one. French do not speak in term or conservative/liberal, but in term of right/left. Conservative for american is still the Right, frenches are more "radical", well, more.

The only reason why Sarkozy got elected because he is a character, just like Jacques Chirac before him. Characters magnified by a TV show "Les guignols de l'info", that contributes greatly in making of their personnalities appealing ones. French people first vote for the character, second for... the Left. And I hope European constitution will not be adopted until France has a left president. That would make Europe more socialist, with another view of the world from the American one.

But if you say that european considers sarkozy being conservative, it is to say more left from the right (but still right), there may be a lot of work befor econverting the rest of europe into socialism.

Maybe the nowadays crisis will help to do this.

 

[Emperor Kabal]

Well I am an American and I am a right of center Libertarian which to the Europeans I might be a radical right wing nazi.

Yes of course the Europeans will always see the American views as narrow or thin. That's typical which frankly I think the Europeans are ass-backwards in their way of thinking but then again I am an American and damn proud of it although I find myself wondering if that is such a good thing now my country has gone to crap in a hand basket. I won't deny America is socialist in many aspects and I disagree with 90% of it. Capitalism is what made our country so powerful and we're about to abandon the system that served so well in the past. It's stupidity really.

Yes Socialism has worked in democracies only if the population is ignorant and took in the obsfuscations of the real issues which is control. I'm sorry but that whole equality thing, I do not buy into like so many sheep. What Equality? So are you going to punish me for making a decent living that I worked hard at and reward someone who was lazy and incompetent? So you want to steal from me what I earned and give it to someone who frankly does not deserve it? That's not equality that's plain robbery. Distribution of wealth. Pfft...Europeans. And you wonder why America has to keep bailing you out of your own wars?

 

[Naokaukodem]

Well I am an American and I am a right of center Libertarian which to the Europeans I might be a radical right wing nazi.

French. As Soda7777777 said, Europeans think Sarkozy is too much conservative...

Yes of course the Europeans will always see the American views as narrow or thin. That's typical which frankly I think the Europeans are ass-backwards in their way of thinking but then again I am an American and damn proud of it although I find myself wondering if that is such a good thing now my country has gone to crap in a hand basket. I won't deny America is socialist in many aspects and I disagree with 90% of it. Capitalism is what made our country so powerful and we're about to abandon the system that served so well in the past. It's stupidity really.

America is a great nation eventhough arrogant (and scary -war in Iraq-) sometimes. If you are so powerfull that may not be because of liberalism, but simply because of your union.

Yes Socialism has worked in democracies only if the population is ignorant and took in the obsfuscations of the real issues which is control. I'm sorry but that whole equality thing, I do not buy into like so many sheep. What Equality? So are you going to punish me for making a decent living that I worked hard at and reward someone who was lazy and incompetent? So you want to steal from me what I earned and give it to someone who frankly does not deserve it? That's not equality that's plain robbery. Distribution of wealth. Pfft...Europeans. And you wonder why America has to keep bailing you out of your own wars?

Under François Mitterrand, France was the first lettered country in the world. Analphabetism does not exist in France, even in the most backwarded regions. (as to that, there's pretty no backwarded regions in France)
I don't know what you call "ignorant", unless "ignorant" is so about the motivations of the governement. Example? Iraq war. People was for it because of the 11 september. Absolutely no link with the real aim of the G.W.Bush: oil. That's true, you can choose to believe in the small warnings of medias that say, in a blow, that THERE WAS NEVER FROM NEAR OR FAR MASSIVE DESTRUCTION WEAPONS IN IRAQ, but that may be something disproportionnate in regard of the state PROPAGANDA for the war in Iraq.

 

[phoinix]

I dont know how capitalism worked in your country Emperor Cabal, but let me tell you what did to mine:

The big fishes, the ones that earned with hard work all their power, have bought the majority of the media, which they use to extort weak goverments into profitable deals. You cant imagine how many "businessman bribes politician" type of scandals have arosen here. So no, I dont think that capitalism is good. And equality, means equal chances of success and that is far away from " steal from me what I earned and give it to someone who frankly does not deserve it". Seriously, but who the . .. .. .. . are you to tell that someone does not deserve education and health care??

Yes Socialism has worked in democracies only if the population is ignorant and took in the obsfuscations of the real issues which is control.

Oh please...

I don't know what you call "ignorant", unless "ignorant" is so about the motivations of the governement. Example? Iraq war. People was for it because of the 11 september. Absolutely no link with the real aim of the G.W.Bush: oil. That's true, you can choose to believe in the small warnings of medias that say, in a blow, that THERE WAS NEVER FROM NEAR OR FAR MASSIVE DESTRUCTION WEAPONS IN IRAQ, but that may be something disproportionnate in regard of the state PROPAGANDA for the war in Iraq.

Thank you

 

[jsweeney]

I dont know how capitalism worked in your country Emperor Cabal, but let me tell you what did to mine:

The big fishes, the ones that earned with hard work all their power, have bought the majority of the media, which they use to extort weak goverments into profitable deals. You cant imagine how many "businessman bribes politician" type of scandals have arosen here. So no, I dont think that capitalism is good. And equality, means equal chances of success and that is far away from " steal from me what I earned and give it to someone who frankly does not deserve it". Seriously, but who the . .. .. .. . are you to tell that someone does not deserve education and health care??

Oh please...

Thank you

My god that pessimistic view really kills me. Capitilism sets up a system where if people work hard and work in the right way(ever think of that) they can succeed in life and get things like healthcare and a college education. Those are called incentives. If government takes away incentives, what is the motivation to work hard? National Pride? that got the russians pretty far eh? And its not just the business men bribing the politicans but its the politicans that in a democracy are voted for taking the bribes that ruin the system. Nothing is wrong with working for your money. Equality is just a liberal term to say that people who haven't worked hard in life deserve the same priveleges and programs as doctors and lawyers, oh those dirty men who went to school until their late 20s and ammounted 2 million dollars in college loans who doesn't deserve to be rich because they aren't poor.

 

[The_Reckoning]

I think my IQ dropped reading this thread. The level of ignorance eminating from the posts here is astounding.

Capitalism isn't anything more than the ability to posses capital.

Communism is the opposite, the non-existence of private property.

Socialism's a bit murkier, but can be summed up as the government using its power to benefit the poor in a society by taking away from the rich.

What you're talking about is Free Market vs. Communism, not capitalism. Socialism as a civic would probably give +

at the expense of

.

Communism has to be in the game because it's such a massive part of history. At the same time, even though it failed badly in reality, it has to be a balanced gameplay option.

The modern-world allegories aren't representative of the concepts. But that's the No-true-Scotsman problem. Communism is unworkable with humans. Maybe if we thought more like an isogamous, hive species, it'd work.

phoinix, the problem your country is encountering isn't capitalism. It's corruption, and it happens in communist countries to the same extent.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

there should still be communism though
its still a style of government even the u.s has a communist party

Also, the game features obsolete civics such as feudalism and caste system, so I don't see why state ptoperty (which still exists in some countries) shouldn't be included.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Well I am an American and I am a right of center Libertarian which to the Europeans I might be a radical right wing nazi.

Yes of course the Europeans will always see the American views as narrow or thin. That's typical which frankly I think the Europeans are ass-backwards in their way of thinking but then again I am an American and damn proud of it although I find myself wondering if that is such a good thing now my country has gone to crap in a hand basket. I won't deny America is socialist in many aspects and I disagree with 90% of it. Capitalism is what made our country so powerful and we're about to abandon the system that served so well in the past. It's stupidity really.

Yes Socialism has worked in democracies only if the population is ignorant and took in the obsfuscations of the real issues which is control. I'm sorry but that whole equality thing, I do not buy into like so many sheep. What Equality? So are you going to punish me for making a decent living that I worked hard at and reward someone who was lazy and incompetent? So you want to steal from me what I earned and give it to someone who frankly does not deserve it? That's not equality that's plain robbery. Distribution of wealth. Pfft...Europeans. And you wonder why America has to keep bailing you out of your own wars?

I wish you would learn the difference between social democracy, which is about social security, health care for all and the poor getting a decent deal, and communism, which is about the government owning everything and ruling through a dictatorship. I don't like communism, but neither do I think much of your "libertarianism", which is about coddling the rich, removing all control of what big business and the banks do and letting the poor go to the wall. Those are the kind of politics that led to the present economical meltdown, which not coincidentally started in the US under George W. Bush, Junior and the Ruling Vice President, Unca Dick.

 

[Soda7777777]

I didn't read much about Sarkozy, and the way he is considered in Europe is not the first subject of TV shows. As to the Frenches, they consider him liberal, that's for sure, and he is. Conservative, i don't know, as modern conservatism is more an american (or anglo-saxon) view than a French one. French do not speak in term or conservative/liberal, but in term of right/left. Conservative for american is still the Right, frenches are more "radical", well, more.

The only reason why Sarkozy got elected because he is a character, just like Jacques Chirac before him. Characters magnified by a TV show "Les guignols de l'info", that contributes greatly in making of their personnalities appealing ones. French people first vote for the character, second for... the Left. And I hope European constitution will not be adopted until France has a left president. That would make Europe more socialist, with another view of the world from the American one.

But if you say that european considers sarkozy being conservative, it is to say more left from the right (but still right), there may be a lot of work befor econverting the rest of europe into socialism.

Maybe the nowadays crisis will help to do t

Well he also won because he was running against a women.

 

[jsweeney]

Well he also won because he was running against a women.

you just made my day