Civilization 5

[rysmiel]

I guess I will stand with Camikaze and say that I think that is a terrible idea for Civ 5, in that case.

Why ? even if you are sticking to stringent historical realism, is it not worth having some means of representing Mir or the ISS ?

 

[kochman]

No, and I will tell you why.

Cities are so much more dynamic. What you are bringing up is at best a "fort" in the sky. Space stations are a far cry from space cities.

 

[rysmiel]

No, and I will tell you why.

Cities are so much more dynamic. What you are bringing up is at best a "fort" in the sky. Space stations are a far cry from space cities.

But if you are willing to allow Civ to contain technologies being developed earlier or in a different order than they were in real history, and civilisations fighting that did not co-exist in real history, why draw a line at alternate histories of the development of space ? It's all technology to me.

Consider this, for example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)

There's no future tech involved in an alternate history where for one reason or another those things get built en masse in the late 1940s, and that will enable your cities in space well before now.

 

[kochman]

There is probably some game platform for this type of thing already.

Basically, though, here is the crucial difference. The exact chain of events in the real world is never really going to be replicated in a generated Civ game... but... it is all within the realm of possibility to some degree.

What you are speaking of is just not really possible.

Cities can sustain themselves from the land, that is pretty much the point of Civ... master the land to master your empire. Colonies in space... I mean, we do have spaceships, but what spacecity can you fathom that can support 8 million people?

 

[Camikaze]

Why should Civ be limited to a "recreation of history" ?

Because that is just what it is. An empire building game utilising historical parallels, or possible historical alternatives. We shouldn't have sky or sea cities for the same reason we shouldn't have car races in the game. They aren't relevant to what the game is. Perhaps they would have a place in a mod, but not in the game itself.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I'd like more random events. They maake for variety.

 

[Camikaze]

I'd like more random events. They maake for variety.

Yeah, random events are quite cool. But you need to be careful that skill in the game is not overtaken by chance, which could easily happen with too much randomness.

 

[rysmiel]

Cities can sustain themselves from the land, that is pretty much the point of Civ... master the land to master your empire. Colonies in space... I mean, we do have spaceships, but what spacecity can you fathom that can support 8 million people?

A size 1 city is 10,000 people, no ? That's pretty straightforward to envision in orbit.

 

[rysmiel]

Because that is just what it is. An empire building game utilising historical parallels, or possible historical alternatives.

It's the scaling of "possible historical alternatives" I am querying here. Limiting Civ to "as advanced as our time line has been or less advanced" seems to arbitrarily cut off at least half of that parameter space, as it does not seem implausible to me that postulating a history like unto ours save for missing a couple of reversals, or having a couple of things that were ahead-of-their-time oddities in real history take off, could not leave a more advance contemporary civilisation.

 

[kochman]

A size 1 city is 10,000 people, no ? That's pretty straightforward to envision in orbit.

So, you suggest having the option of building Size 1 cities in the sky... what's the point? Personally, I never build a city that won't grow beyond Size 1, I don't see the point, it costs your empire more in maintenance that it is worth...
Imagine the maintenance costs of "sky cities"... overseas colonies are expensive enough!

 

[rysmiel]

So, you suggest having the option of building Size 1 cities in the sky... what's the point? Personally, I never build a city that won't grow beyond Size 1, I don't see the point, it costs your empire more in maintenance that it is worth...
Imagine the maintenance costs of "sky cities"... overseas colonies are expensive enough!

No, I am suggesting that cities of a size less than population eight million are worth having, and orbital cities would work as an element if they were hard to make grow. As I think I have suggested before, one appealing reason for having them is to require you to build starship parts in orbit.

I thought I'd been clear that I think city maintenance is a bad idea and should be scrapped, so that argument does not apply in this case.

 

[kochman]

I guess I missed the brainstorm about dropping city maintenance in the 80 pages of posts on this topic. Now I have a clearer idea of what you mean.

Sky cities, with no requirement of anything financial to keep it going (because cities run themselves for free) in Civ5; city maintenance out of Civ5...

You should immediately write the designers and tell them to impliment this idea of yours. They may not be looking at this thread, we can't risk them missing it! Let me know how it goes!

 

[rysmiel]

I guess I missed the brainstorm about dropping city maintenance in the 80 pages of posts on this topic. Now I have a clearer idea of what you mean.

Not sure it was in this topic; but in brief, I think city maintenance is one of many ideas in Civ 4 replacing something that was perceived as having flaws in Civ 3 by changing the wrong thing; I would far rather start from the building maintenance model in Civ 1-3 than have the clumsy, lumbering expansion-choker that city maintenance serves as. (Of course cities are free if they have no buildings of any sort in them.)

I've definitely been vocal about layered maps including an orbital layer elsewhere in this forum.

 

[emeralddude]

i'd like to see more "recent" civilizations (a.k.a. brazil, canada, australia).

 

[Camikaze]

It's the scaling of "possible historical alternatives" I am querying here. Limiting Civ to "as advanced as our time line has been or less advanced" seems to arbitrarily cut off at least half of that parameter space, as it does not seem implausible to me that postulating a history like unto ours save for missing a couple of reversals, or having a couple of things that were ahead-of-their-time oddities in real history take off, could not leave a more advance contemporary civilisation.

Just seems to me that postulating a potential future history with wildly random aspects like sea and sky cities is a waste of time for the developers, given the amount that can be improved with actual history.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

So, you suggest having the option of building Size 1 cities in the sky... what's the point? Personally, I never build a city that won't grow beyond Size 1, I don't see the point, it costs your empire more in maintenance that it is worth...
Imagine the maintenance costs of "sky cities"... overseas colonies are expensive enough!

Frankly, I think the idea if skycities sucks. Not only because it would be unrealistic, for reasins already provided bt others, but also because they would clutter up the interface.

 

[Barbar]

This is actually an old idea originally used in Civilization Call the Power, but bring into Civ V sea and sky cities. I was really disappointed it wasn't a part of Civ IV.

I have never played CTP. How have Sea Cities worked?

 

[Vandal Warlord]

i'd like to see more "recent" civilizations (a.k.a. brazil, canada, australia).

Civ Gold.

 

[chrissifniotis]

I have never played CTP. How have Sea Cities worked?

Sea tiles produced their own yields of F/P/G and with resources and weird new improvements. A mechanical sea settler, I forget the name, is produced in a coastal city, can only move about in water and settles like a normal settler, creating a underwater city, although I'm not entirely sure, the disc doesn't work anymore and having played it in ages. I want to see CTP2 to understand the beginning concept of culture.

 

[Barbar]

Sounds interesting - would be a good idea for CIV V i think.