Civilization 6 Tier List 1.0

[teakbois]

I think Russia's tundra advantage might be overstated, or at least not as great as it sounds. All of the unique improvements can be built on Tundra (granted some of them can have additional requirements) and also on Desert and Snow. It does mean expending a Builder charge to place them, so there's that. But a few other civs can pull that "using the wastelands" trick, such as Egypt with it's Sphinxes or Ghandi with his Stepwells.

There is no unique improvement, just an extra hammer/faith. Tundra still sucks for Russia, just a little less than anyone else. The 'advantage' is you may actually be able to expand a little peacefully early on without 5 AIs breathing down your neck. And you can use cheap Lavra to get a religion to use it for growth/food bonuses to help with the crappy tundra.

Edit: read your post wrong. Yes, Gandhi could stepwell up the tundra to an extent. However the stepwell is meant to be a full bonus, as opposed to something to make a bad start bias not quite as bad.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

I think Russia's tundra advantage might be overstated, or at least not as great as it sounds. All of the unique improvements can be built on Tundra (granted some of them can have additional requirements) and also on Desert and Snow. It does mean expending a Builder charge to place them, so there's that. But a few other civs can pull that "using the wastelands" trick, such as Egypt with it's Sphinxes or Ghandi with his Stepwells.

A Tundra tile with a Sphinx or Mission is not worth working. Unique improvements are just way underpowered. The Sphinx, Mission, Chateau, Kurgan, and Great Wall are just not worth it. Work farms, mines, and resources instead. The Ziggurat is better but only OK. The Stepwell is pretty decent but hardly a gamechanger.

Re Arabia--tried them last night. Each element of the Civ is decentish, but none of the uniques are amazing. Founding your religion can be kind of nice but I don't think it's really all that important. Mid-tier at best, I'd say.

 

[Exodite]

Rising district costs is also a pain. It forces you to play the game in a very counterintuitive way.

The scaling is really bizarre and I honestly don't even understand the reasoning for it.

I can get the more expensive settlers and I can at least see the argument for the builders but I don't get the district scaling at all. If it scaled with the number of a particular district you've built, fine, but as it is I'm struggling to understand what it's meant to accomplish.

Other than making internal trade routes, Industrial Zones and production in general even better than they already are.

Heck, grinding away at a game as France I were just about to plop down my first district for the game (a Holy Site ) and the cost was already more than double the base cost!

And this was me barely into the Classical Era, having gotten Political Philosophy and one other Classical Era civic with my science still in the Ancient Era.

 

[Galbias]

The problem with Tundra is that you can't build improvements on flat Tundra tiles. Forests, Hills, and resource tiles are nice as Russia, but most of what you'll have is flat 1f 1p 1f tiles that can't be improved until much, much later when you can plant forests. Of course, you can still use them for districts, but any city founded solely in the Tundra is also going to have major Food issues, you need to settle them half in and half out of the Tundra. It's a nice bonus but it's not the main attraction of Russia.

Arabia needs Holy Sites to found their religion and get their worship buildings, and needs Campus with good adjacency bonuses for their unique building to do anything. Their bonuses are nice but building a Holy site early with no boost sucks and I think they actually need to build the other religious buildings before they can take advantage of the reduced Faith cost, so it'll be awhile before their ability really does much for them.

 

[Kwami]

Arabia needs Holy Sites to found their religion

Arabia always gets the last prophet, if they haven't already gotten one earlier. They don't need to build Holy Sites to get it.

So, Arabia can wait until later to build their Holy Sites, when their production is higher and they aren't trying to rush out initial builders and military units. As a consequence, they might get some of the less great beliefs for their religion. But, they'll always get the very, very good Righteousness of the Faith bonuses.

 

[LanguishViking]

I'm coming to the conclusion that norway is only worthwhile either on an island map or if you manage to get feed the world (plant forests to make sure your holy sites produce 12 food with conservation).

 

[n3y0]

I understand what people have been saying about Sumeria on lower difficulties, but not on deity. The combat bonus the AI gets does a lot to counter it. Playing with them on deity I was able to wipe out my neighbor China by turn 50, and found one other city. But I was immediately DOW'ed by Greece, and that war lasted for over 150 turns. The war weariness penalties were staggering, despite the fact that it was a defensive war. And the lack of any good bonus for Sumeria after the war cart meant that even though I somehow managed to not get crushed by Greece, I was left far behind. Sumeria is definitely not top tier. They're definitely not bottom tier either, but they're not adaptable at all or useful enough once the war cart is outdated to be a good civ.

 

[dexters]

So consensus is that America is bottom tier?

I was able to do a come from behind (lazy) Culture win with the film studios and a late archoelogy spam as China was close to winning by Space but also had cultural/tourism lead at one point. The UUs are kind of meh, but the double speed legacy bonus and film studios are nice. Roosevelt Corollary might also help with early barbs and expected early AI rushes.

I would recommended pushing it up at least a rank higher.

 

[lamaros]

No, America is considered mid, but on the lower side.

 

[Siptah]

Arabia always gets the last prophet, if they haven't already gotten one earlier. They don't need to build Holy Sites to get it.

So, Arabia can wait until later to build their Holy Sites, when their production is higher and they aren't trying to rush out initial builders and military units. As a consequence, they might get some of the less great beliefs for their religion. But, they'll always get the very, very good Righteousness of the Faith bonuses.

In theory, yes. In practice you need one or two holy sites (best with temples) to have a larger amount of faith the moment you found your religion. You really need to have some apostles or missionaries asap. Otherwise the AI will convert your holy city in no time and your out of the religion game. It's true you don't focus on it in the very early game. But higher difficulty AI gets religions rather quick, so you better prepared for getting that prophet as Arabia. Of course, you can also have the prophet standing in your city and wait some more turns until you start your religion...

 

[LDiCesare]

I understand what people have been saying about Sumeria on lower difficulties, but not on deity. The combat bonus the AI gets does a lot to counter it. Playing with them on deity I was able to wipe out my neighbor China by turn 50, and found one other city. But I was immediately DOW'ed by Greece, and that war lasted for over 150 turns. The war weariness penalties were staggering, despite the fact that it was a defensive war. And the lack of any good bonus for Sumeria after the war cart meant that even though I somehow managed to not get crushed by Greece, I was left far behind. Sumeria is definitely not top tier. They're definitely not bottom tier either, but they're not adaptable at all or useful enough once the war cart is outdated to be a good civ.

I didn't have any problem taking out opponents with Sumerian war carts because they are dead cheap compared to Middle age units of almost coparable strength so you can swarm opponents.
The barb encampment bonus lasts all game.
I don't think late game bonuses are significant right now considering the state of the ai.

Ithink legions are really very strong. They can go very far away and chop their build price back into hammers so they can be almost free unitsin addition to being strong.

 

[n3y0]

The barb encampment bonus lasts all game

That's the other thing. Because the AI hated me so much for war-mongering, I was constantly at war with them and couldn't build anything other than units, or risk defeat. By the time I was able to make peace, the barb camps kept invading me with musket-men and cavalry, whereas I had knights at best (upgraded from war carts). Greece dispersed all the barb camps near my border with the mech infantry they had by then. So that bonus was also useless.

 

[qhash]

As someone wrote before, I quote:
" I am not too sure about Scythia and Sumeria being high tier. In MP maybe. But the thing about is the AI is so incompetent at defending its cities you can build a team of Archers and just as easily take their cities. Basically like this:
- Open with Animal Husbandry (pre-req for Archery), build Slingers
- Research Archery halfway (all the way if you already proced the Eureka)
- Declare war, kill one unit with Slinger (barbarian will do), which completes Archery
- Upgrade all Slingers to Archers at cost of 30 gold each
- Clean house"
I did not try MP, so can't say about that, but above mentioned tactic works in SP on King and Emperor... I was able to conquer early capitals and city states playing different civs. Did not need to use UU at all. I could only argue with first sentece of the quoted text that War Kart is somehow good for scouting and finding good spots for cities.

In my first games I was building scouts, but I abandoned that. They are useless. My build order is slinger slinger/builder slinger slinger/builder (terrain depandant when to build builder) warrior. Then steal settlers, workers, take capitals.
This is the ultimate opening and it is kinda sad an aggresive expansion is favoured so much.

I must say i like Russia. Additional terrain is perfect when racing for spots. Played twice, were my two most perfect starts. Tundra was something found really far
Lavra is extremly superior UD.
Each civ with UD is tier one actually.
I did not play every civ, so for sure my opinion is somehow flawed. Moreover I do not like to "break" the game to myself, so Scythia is good but not as good. Cant understand how people can have fun playing game if they have enough gold to buy everything just because they placetwo cities that produce cavalery all the time? Anyway, each ability that allows "farming" is for me something that is not intended by the game creators and should not be "abused".

I thing that Germany Aztec Japan Rome Russia Sumeria are best. cant tell the order exacly.

update: sorry for all the typos, my langauge help changes words in a wierd manner

 

[teqofc]

From playing mostly deity and wining with Rome, Aztec and Kongo I'd definitely say they are all god tier. A solid early melee unit is very helpful in early domination. I have yet to try Germany and many others.

Scythia was OP on prince but not sure how they will scale on deity but will give it a try.

 

[dwarfling]

I just find it kind of a bummer to play Germany just for the Hansa (and the other free stuff) knowing that I'll never use the other half of their abilities (because I like city states) or the UU (I only ever built one submarine, just for curiosity). I wish they had gotten Landsknechts. Or Panzers I guess...

 

[Midori]

Scythia is really something amazing. It's too easy to get all of the eurekas for military stuff because of their bonuses. The advantage against wounded units is overwhelming in the early game, and horsemen are fast and surprisingly good at sieges, so picking off a civ or two early on is no trouble. You start getting a lot of promotions because your units heal +50. You get a great general and get even larger bonuses. The fact that Scythia's combat bonuses apply to religious units also means you can pivot to apostle spam in the mid game.

Japan was alright. Their culture game is amazing and it's easy to defend against invasion. The samurai was kind of expensive and didn't last long, and it arrives in an era where warmongering penalties are high but you don't really get the expanded casus belli choices. Building a huge cluster of districts in between my cities was helpful in getting production up and getting amenities up to +3 and +4 in the late game.

Russia is pretty good, too. Even cities built directly on the tundra are still good for producing a lot of faith and all those cultural great people points. The Grand Embassy is kind of weak, but if you have a lot of trade routes and get behind on science (which is more likely than culture imo), The cossack is strong, but maybe a bit situational in actually getting to use it. I'd say they're pretty solid based on one game with them.

 

[Brutus2]

I just find it kind of a bummer to play Germany just for the Hansa (and the other free stuff) knowing that I'll never use the other half of their abilities (because I like city states) or the UU (I only ever built one submarine, just for curiosity). I wish they had gotten Landsknechts. Or Panzers I guess...

I hear what you're saying but Germany is already so powerful as is, if you gave them a better UU or something other than the CS combat bonus they would be so broken. You have to balance some really good abilities with some so-so abilities.

The fact that the Hansa gets adjacency bonus from any and all resources with or without any improvements on them (even artifact resources in archeological sites) AND also gets another bonus for being next to commercial hub makes them so much better than standard Industrial Zone which only gets bonus from a mine or quarry.

 

[CaiusDrewart]

As someone wrote before, I quote:
" I am not too sure about Scythia and Sumeria being high tier. In MP maybe. But the thing about is the AI is so incompetent at defending its cities you can build a team of Archers and just as easily take their cities.

I totally agree with this. Scythia's cavalry spam and the Sumerian war cart are really good, but they're not that much better than Archer spam. Archers will successfully conquer one AI 90% of the time on higher levels, and can even get two AIs most of the time. So I'd call Sumeria and Scythia mid-tier (assuming you don't sell units).

I like Sumeria's ability to farm barb camps for Eurekas, though I'm not crazy about the Ziggurat and the Leader UA is the most worthless unique in the game, bar none. Scythia's healing after kills and bonuses against wounded units is pretty good, even if the Kurgan sucks. They're both decent. But you can do an early rush with anyone, and other Civs (German/ Greece/Rome/Russia) have far stronger economic bonuses. If conquest was harder, these Civs would be top tier for sure.

About the Aztecs--the ability to rush districts with builders is really good in theory. It should be enough to make this a near top tier civ by itself. But the fact is that right now chopping forests makes the UA totally useless. You can rush a district in pretty much any city with any civ just by cutting a few forests, even faraway forests. It doesn't even take 5 charges to do this--more like 2 or 3. Once they nerf chopping, I'll love the Aztecs. The same goes for China rushing early wonders (though I like China's extra builder charge).

 

[UWHabs]

I totally agree with this. Scythia's cavalry spam and the Sumerian war cart are really good, but they're not that much better than Archer spam. Archers will successfully conquer one AI 90% of the time on higher levels, and can even get two AIs most of the time. So I'd call Sumeria and Scythia mid-tier (assuming you don't sell units).

I like Sumeria's ability to farm barb camps for Eurekas, though I'm not crazy about the Ziggurat and the Leader UA is the most worthless unique in the game, bar none. Scythia's healing after kills and bonuses against wounded units is pretty good, even if the Kurgan sucks. They're both decent. But you can do an early rush with anyone, and other Civs (German/ Greece/Rome/Russia) have far stronger economic bonuses. If conquest was harder, these Civs would be top tier for sure.

About the Aztecs--the ability to rush districts with builders is really good in theory. It should be enough to make this a near top tier civ by itself. But the fact is that right now chopping forests makes the UA totally useless. You can rush a district in pretty much any city with any civ just by cutting a few forests, even faraway forests. It doesn't even take 5 charges to do this--more like 2 or 3. Once they nerf chopping, I'll love the Aztecs. The same goes for China rushing early wonders (though I like China's extra builder charge).

One thing about the Aztec UA is that yes, you can chop forests to speed districts, but what it means is that you can save those forest chops for other stuff (say, the buildings in the district). With the policy card to add 2 charges, then 1 builder = 1 district, so it's really easy to just buy a builder, and then 5 turns later any district is done. And you still have all your forests around to chop for whatever else you want to use. And with the AI warrior spam, your eagle warriors get an awful lot of extra builders - I only wish that ability remained on upgrade.

 

[Ornen]

Would people be interested in an ongoing Tier List in the vein of adwcta's thread for BNW? So far, the OP in this thread hasn't been updated at all. It's not a bad list, but we're already seeing a growing consensus to the contrary on Sumeria (which OP classified as '**** tier') and I expect to see more differences emerge as we play and discuss more.

I'd be open to hosting it, and would continually edit it as discussions continue, people go over different arguments regarding the civs, and patches/updates come out. As it is, without a solid reference point, this thread is already becoming a disorganized discussion of why different civs are strong or weak. I'd be happy to draft an OP and maintain a thread for this.