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[vanilla] Civilization Guide: America (vanilla)

Civilization Guide: America

  1. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    I don't see good reason to keep troops in town while warmongering. +1 happy per town is too small to keep half of my army garrisoned and doing nothing. Liberty is much stronger: it has cash, production, happiness and a GE to build Notre Dame.

    So it is about short term gain from more experienced units vs. long term gain from a stronger empire.
     
  2. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    It's not like you have to pick between Honor and Liberty. They work well together.

    The +1 happy for garrisoning is a stop gap measure, that's all it pretends to be, and that's really all warmongering Civs need. During war, a captured city instantly reduces your happiness by one less (because the capturing unit is now garrisoned there), and while at peace you just plop some garrisons at home to boost your happiness while you prep for the next fight (and get some free culture, too).

    Where Honor really helps is the Finisher. Warmonger Civs never have to worry about money again after that Finisher is active.
     
  3. terveurn

    terveurn Warlord

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    "The image of the Warmonger as set forth for America in Civ 5 is surprisingly accurate, reflecting a Nation that found its birth in a war as well as the one that unleashed the nuclear bomb in World War II."

    Boy, someone has to step back and try and reread United States history and not just look at the pretty pictures. Do not know of too many countries that have ever gone to war then after beating-up a nation turned around and left.

    The foundation of the United States predates the American revolution. WTF is with the liberal crap about bringing-up the United States use of the atomic bomb against Japan - again, google Operation Olympic (the invasion of Japan) - 2 to 3 million killed (http://home.roadrunner.com/~casualties/). Do not know about you but if I had to bomb the crap out of 75K cities to save 2 million troops I sure as hell would....

    Maybe the reason the United States gets +1 is because the United States always had better troops.
     
  4. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    Actually, since I'm an American citizen from one of the more conservative states in the Union (Utah), 98% of your post makes rather broad assumptions.

    I made no moral judgments. I included that actually because it's a counterargument for the oft-repeated claim on this forum that America is too young to deserve a place among all the other Civs. Whether one approves of the bombing or not (and I actually think it was the correct decision), building and unleashing a nuclear bomb changed the face of world politics, and it was America that did it.

    When you take the history of the United States as a whole, it's hard to find a time when they aren't using the military against some other nation/people. Again, for this article, I did not pass moral judgments or examine the justifications, just the simple fact that the United States has been informed and shaped to high degree by its wars.
     
  5. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Hey! I read your post one month too late :lol:

    Well, for early warmongering, you're certainly right. But, initially, statement by the OP was the thing i was referring to, where he said that taking liberty - isn't thinking long term. Because for me, thinking long term means thinking B17s. And to get there 10 techs before every one in the world does you need tradition - rationalism or liberty - rationalism.
     
  6. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    I've never found it *that* vital to get there 10 techs before everyone in the world does -- B17s in Vanilla more than pulled their own weight.
     
  7. fatboris

    fatboris Chieftain

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    ...or you can use honor to find barb camps and get all units level 2. Attack some neighboring civs and get your insane promos insane promos. Upgrade your melees to minuteman, spam a few more, and knock out your Science/High scoring civs with +1 sight cannon, minutemen, and knights. THEN you start blowing folks away in the tech war, use your spies to fill in the gaps on the top of the tree.

    I'm only playing Prince and King so I never get enough gold for 4 city Tradition to be effective. I have no idea if my strategy would work on higher levels. I would think upgrading crossbows with range to Gatling and +1 sight would be pretty formidable at higher levels but that's just guessing.
     
  8. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    I am playing my first ever game as America and found this to be helpful. On Immortal, standard Pangaea, I found myself at the western end of the landmass and with double scouts, I was able to pop 8 ruins including Masonry and Writing. Perhaps the luck of the map but the scouts extra site does wonders.
     
  9. Gimasag3

    Gimasag3 Chieftain

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    Jun 30, 2010
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    Ohio, USA
    Very nice guide. First time I played America, it was pretty awesome because I didn't realize how useful Manifest Destiny is.
     
  10. MetaSkipper

    MetaSkipper Chieftain

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    I don't have the game yet, but how has BNW changed how you play, if at all?
     
  11. George Abitbol

    George Abitbol Prince

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    America is my favourite civ with China.
     
  12. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    Grand Cayman/San Diego
    Hey all, long-time solo player and infrequent but interested reader of these boards. This is my first post and I just wanted to say that, collectively, you all give some very good advice. Thanks.

    I wish I had read this thread before starting my current game. I'm playing as Amerika (intentional misspelling) and have reached year 1100 AD. I always use random settings, but I'm pretty sure there is just one land mass, pretty much shaped like a squirrel with the head facing east and the tail wrapping around and trying to touch the mid-portion of the back (hope that makes sense).

    Due to a fortunate starting position, right in the middle of the map, I was able to create a 3 city barrier that cut the continent in half. It helped that the terrain near my capital is mostly forest and hills and I have a 6 tile mountain range blocking half the continent from my cities.

    In a nutshell, I went war-monger early, going after the weaker nations in the east. My first scout is now a long-range composite bowman and I have one other comp bowman with 900+ exp so it is long range too. My catapults were useless because I didn't get them enough experience to have ranged defense upgrade, so it took a long time to plow through the weaker divs using just two bowmen to batter walls.

    So I'm just finishing up cleansing the East of the squatters who dared to establish themselves in my rightful territory and am getting ready to launch a land-based push to finish up the game. My civ score is 800 or so, and Greece and the Dutch are in the 600's and pose the biggest, if not nearest, threats. I was going to jump onto the tail and just bulldoze through, knowing my defensive mountain range (aided by Great Wall) is going to be very tough to attack. However, after reading this thread, I am going to try a different tactic.

    I am just finished researching gunpowder, have the cheap upgrade social policy, plenty of gold (about 2000) and 5 swordsmen with 60-120 exp. I'm going to upgrade these and see if they dominate the mountainous forests like described above.

    FYI. as far as social policies go, I focused on both honor and liberty and have two slots left in each. Not my normal style, but focusing more on honor than usual paid serious dividends. I'll probably finish off Liberty before honor, as gold isn't an issue and I'd like to get that free great person of choice.

    This should be a pretty easy win from here, provided I don't run into an unexpected Greek air force before I'm ready for it.

    Anyways, just wanted to say hello and thanks for a lot of good information. Hopefully I can contribute something useful in the future.
     
  13. Haig

    Haig Deity

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    Welcome to the forums! :hatsoff:
    By the way, get Brave New World if you have only the normal Civ 5, it's brilliant.



    And my recommendation to all:
    people should try some later era starts, it gives loads of new possibilities as the more modern civs like America, Austria etc. have their uniques in the later eras and early civs like Greece lose some of their edge.

    I love America when starting from Medieval/Renaissance era. It gives some extra historic flavor too..
     
  14. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Emperor

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    Quick question, how did you wrap your text around the images?
     
  15. MetaSkipper

    MetaSkipper Chieftain

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    Will we see this updated for Brave New World, or is most of the advice really the same? Still, an update would be nice.

    That said, there are definitely things to be updated. You can now build into Minutemen, for example.
     
  16. Strategist83

    Strategist83 King

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    This one is a poor guide so you shouldn't even hope to see it updated. The basic premise built upon by the author (that America is a warmongering civ) is decidedly wrong. America has been heavily criticized in Civ V for being a bland and/or weak civ when reality is the civ is extremely well done and accurately represents what role the nation has played in real-life history - a nation of settlers (Manifest Destiny) that later evolves into a democracy (Freedom). It's true that the +1 sight gives America an edge in combat but the author overlooks that this bonus counts just as much in the field of exploration of the world - it is in no way a pure warmongering perk. Finally, America has a small focus on :c5gold: due to UA which again points them in the direction of peace and the Freedom ideology (civs with a :c5gold: bias are generally more peaceful, it's the ones with a :c5production: bias that are suited for war). The author's far-fetched idea that the sole purpose of the tile purchase discount is to annoy neighbours into declaring war has of course no grounding in reality - the real intent of Manifest Destiny is to incite America to choose Liberty as their policy tree of choice so they can found lots of cities and use tile purchases to work the best tiles immediately even with Liberty's relatively slow (compared to Tradition) cultural expansion (this is what America is first and foremost about in Civ V - choosing Liberty and founding lots of cities which you then support with tile purchases). That they have the excellent bomber unique unit doesn't make them a warmonger, either, it simply becomes their weapon of choice during the inevitable WW1/WW1 wars that will break out once ideologies come into play (Civ V on purpose recreates a WW scenario(s) where the ideologies will do battle). It also helps reflect America's dominance and power during the 20th century which is likely to be the time period where they are the most dominant in the game, as well.
     
  17. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    From the original article:

    Please work on your reading comprehension before deciding to bash the article. You really make yourself look like an idiot when you claim I failed to mention something that I did, in fact, mention. And as something crucial, no less.

    From the original article:

    If you had actually bothered to read the article, you wouldn't be spouting

    As though you were formulating some novel idea outside the author's understanding. My understanding is not the one lacking, especially in terms of literacy.

    And this has nothing to do with the article, as Ideologies as such did not exist in Vanilla. If you're going to critique the article, you might at least stick to the version the article is talking about. You know, the version where you could have Stealth by turn 181 (the link is in the article -- there's that reading comprehension thing again).

    In Vanilla, Freedom wouldn't do jack for a well-run American Civ because you should be in charge of at least one and most likely two continents with your Stealth Bombers upgraded from B-51s by the time you even worry about enhancing GP production, and Freedom had little if anything to do with gold production anyway. Note that I recommend an actual Gold-producing policy tree, namely Commerce, in the article (there's that whole reading comprehension thing popping up again).

    I don't mind this article being criticized, but the criticism should follow the following rules:

    1) Actually reading the article;
    2) Responding to the points the article makes, rather than ignoring that the article makes those points;
    3) Keeping the version in mind.

    Following these rules would permit your post to be of a level to permit intelligent debate, rather than a laboring of the over-obvious. To repeat, given that you have a demonstrated ability to ignore direct statements:

    Read the article.
    If you're going to claim I say/don't say something, make sure I actually say/don't say it -- otherwise you look slipshod, at best.
    Remember that this is written for Vanilla, which is the entire point of the previous poster asking for an update.

    And in response to that: I wrote an updated version of the article for G&K (it was never transferred over; it's still in the discussion forum), but only got a copy of BNW a few days ago. The game has been fundamentally transformed, and I would not hazard a guide until I feel fully comfortable with its concepts, which will take a good deal of playing in free time that I admittedly have less of than I did then.
     
  18. DeletedSettler

    DeletedSettler Chieftain

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    Or I could, you know, go Honor, beat the crap out of people, and work THEIR tiles instead. Now I've solved "getting tiles to work" and "getting lots of cities" in one go!

    Even ignoring Ideologies aren't in vanilla, making your complaint about the guide very ridiculous-looking indeed, I have absolutely never seen this inevitable ideology world war nonsense you're talking about. In practice, the ideology conflicts range from a mere diplomatic +/- to an unhappiness bump if I'm somehow not dominating the hearts and minds of the world to my ideology. Or, uh, just go Order, since all the AIs seem to love that one and pick it. I've never seen one (willingly) go Freedom, and maybe twice ever an Autocracy.

    Bonus amusement points for "your UU doesn't make you a warmonger, it's just your key tool when wars happen". Come ON, buddy! If it's so good, you have every reason to start the wars to flex its power!
     
  19. dasaard200

    dasaard200 Prince

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    I have to agree with Our Author, the vanilla guide set forth a great foundation, G&K polished it up, and BNW put candles on the cake .
    Lately, I've been experimenting with these mods : Increased Barbarian Spawn, Unlimited Barbarian Exp., Ryika's Caravan Buff (since updated); and Raging Barbarians (ON) .
    Huge maps, continents(any), and abundant resources .
    Gotta give the AI's a chance, at least ... (maybe) .
     
  20. JBryan314

    JBryan314 US Army Combat Vet and Intelligence Agent

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    I was always a casual Civ IV player, never really progressed beyond the mid-level difficulties and even then didn’t always have great luck winning. With this guide (and others) I feel like I can take my preferred Civ, which is usually America, and advance myself to the higher level difficulties.
     

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