Civilization III v1.16f Additions/Changes/Fixes

i don't think anyone has mentioned this but IMHO it is a huge deal. From Soren Johnson as posted at the Apolyton site

"the main change is that you can stop the computer from even showing you certain moves. For example, if you are tired of watching your workers move around the map while automating, just turn off "Show Automated Moves" in the Preferences Window. The same could be done for friendly or enemy civs. This speeds up the end turns a great deal..."

huuuuuuge change to playability. After the fix to air superiority, this is the most important change in the patch. No more 15 minute turns....:D
 
Originally posted by NY Hoya

huuuuuuge change to playability. After the fix to air superiority, this is the most important change in the patch. No more 15 minute turns....:D

I second that :goodjob: Mao's got an army of 50 Cavalry strong that he's having run laps around my empire...and I've got seasons tickets to the big race :rolleyes: Huge PITA factor.
 
This bug I'm going to mention isn't related to gameplay at all, but is something I'd nonetheless very much like to see fixed.

That bug is that the game doesn't seem to play nicely at all with the Windows desktop. It doesn't really let you "minimize" it. You can alt-tab to other tasks but the game doesn't minimize itself in the process, so you don't see your desktop unless you do the "show desktop" hotkey combo -- which has the effect of minimizing all windows.

Will the patch address this? I think it's important: Civ3 games take long enough that it's VERY unfriendly to essentially take over the desktop for the duration of the game. Even games like Unreal Tournament will minimize themselves when you switch to something else! Civ3 should behave the same way.

In fact, I think it would make a lot of sense for Civ3 to run in a window, so you have the option of maximizing it but aren't required to if you don't want to. This isn't a first-person shooter we're talking about here, where every second of real time counts.

At the very least, I think Civ3 should work like Civ2 did in terms of how it cooperates with the rest of the desktop system. But it would be ideal if it could be run in a window and resized at will. I don't understand why this isn't already the option. This is 2001 after all, and the techniques for making this possible are well known.

If there's some obscure option which fixes this behavior that should go into the initialization file then please let me know, but I haven't run across such a thing.

Thoughts?
 
:) Hey, the patch is coming out these days... But what will bring us the next patch? Some ideas? FIRAXIS, are you reading? When will it come out? Do you have fixed times (e.g. every 4 weeks) or does a patch come out, when the community is shouting louder and louder? Do I get an official answer, please?
:D

My personal opinion: FIRAXIS you are doing a really good job and the game is better than ever! It was worth buying :p it!!
 
I have one thing that anoyed me, maybe i'm doing it wrong, but:

I like to play on large or huge maps with 12 to 16 civ's on it. The diplomacy screen only shows me eight of them. It now is a pain in the ass to see all the alliances/mutual protection pacts etc.

Before i pick a fight, i would really like to know if the other (not shown) civ's somehow will be involved.

Is there anyway to get all 16 civ's on the diplomacyscreen?

Otherwise i would be really greatful if the next patch/expansiondisk/whatever had this

As mentioned before the tradescreen idea is also a must have

The stockmarket idea is great too, aswell the stacked movement would be nice :)

But atleast now Airsup. is fixed i can finally play the game and enjoy it past the invention of flight!
 
I´d like to see a migration feature added, with the populations of lower-culture civs migrating to higher-culture ones. This could be done by involuntarily creating workers every so often in all of the civs except for the one that leads in culture, and automatically transferring each such worker to a civ with higher culture. The choice of the recipient civ could be either random (any civ with higher culture), or based on cultural strength.

I´d add the requirement of a transport link, as with trade, so high-culture civs would be encouraged to create such links, while low-cultural civs could try to contain their populations by blocking these links. Another thing might be to create these workers only from either unhappy (or content/unhappy) citizens, so all happy/content (or happy) citizens would be safe.

I don´t think such a migration feature should replace the culture-based city revolts, but maybe those revolts should be less common, especially in newly-conquered cities.
 
Overall, looks good, but I still think there's a problem with distribution of strategic resources. I've played 3 games recently, and I only had access to iron in one of them (and it ran out very fast). It effectively cripples you for a long long time. Iron should be more common - let's face it, most of the bloody planet is iron.

Other minor gripes:

* Air power should be able to knock out naval units, but give modern naval units air defences, so that they have a chance to destroy attacking planes.

* Expansionistic is a really poor trait. Maybe it should give a bonus to city growth or something as well?
 
Sorry but my english is not very good and I do not understand this:

* Shield bonus from clearing forest can only be received once per game


We could not plan forest and cut forest and gain 10
shield bonus only 1 time in all the game and in only 1 city ?

LeSphinx
 
Originally posted by TotalNewbieHead

I'm sorry, i just have to comment, by law- this even if based in the united states is not free-land, its a private forum and whomever owns it can do whatever they want on it, at any time, without warning.

Quite aside from that, it would be fine if the Internet were the United States of America. Last time I checked, I live in England, and consequently am not governed by US law :p For all we know, this forum may be hosted in the People's Republic of China. Freedom of speech, you were saying? :)
 
Originally posted by LeSphinx
Sorry but my english is not very good and I do not understand this:

* Shield bonus from clearing forest can only be received once per game


We could not plan forest and cut forest and gain 10
shield bonus only 1 time in all the game and in only 1 city ?

LeSphinx

I expect it will be once per square. If you clear a forest square, the nearest city will get 10 shields. If you replant and clear it again, no bonus. However, if there are other forest square close to that city, I think you will be able to clear them and get the shields.

No way of really knowing until we get the patch and try it.
 
I've been playing this game in all its variations since it was on 3 1/2's and came out on the Mac. I've struggled through the huge improvements made from Civ1 to Civ2 (Supermarkets, Farmland, Numerous unit additions and changes, Firepower, Long lists of Tech additions, all of it). Civ2 was a much finer game, and hit the shelf very playable. Alot of people and myself waited a long long time for the true Civ3. CTP1, CTP2, and SMAC all made thier ways onto my harddrive. CTP1 and 2 werent bad, but they lacked that SM feel. SMAC was a my game of choice for awhile, but its hard to relate having Orbital Insertion Hover Tanks with Singularity Lasers and Neutron Armor with the true feeling of being totally dominant of your adversaries with Tanks and Mech Inf. in 1600AD.
So, finally my prayers are answered. The release of Civ3, what's next the formula for turning cigarettes butts into gold?(I'd be rich)
What do I need a manual for, I've been playing Civ for 8 years. I read it anyway. Strategic resources, sounds cool, problem 1 arises.
1. I'm anxiously awaiting the discovery of Iron Working. I can't wait to get my iron resources incoming and start pumping Swordsmen. Those pesky Romans are always breathing down my neck (I'm always the Greeks). But..but..but no luck for me, regarding the world i've explored along with the French and Roman maps I've acquired, there are 4 known locations of Iron. I say to myself 4??!. I might not be a smart man (Forrest Gump), but I know that there should probably a few more deposits of Iron on the 1/4th of the planet I've explored. I manage to secure an Iron deposit for my empire, but the distance from the capitol makes the city worth nothing. Colonies? Not even worth it, another civ always founds a city next to it, and it disappears.
Well, now I've got my Iron, but i dont think im going to go to war with anyone just yet. So I tech up, focus on expanding, culture, and infrastructure. I've always been the kind of person who likes to keep my options open, and I really enjoy kicking other civs' in the tail with far superior military gear. Steam Power makes its way into my knowledge base, and once again, No Coal can be found in my cultural influence, By this time in the game, I've managed to take control (conservative estimate) of 1/5th of the map. With Forbidden Palace, and a few Palace relocations, the corruption is not too unbearable, but still borderline ridiculous. I dont know about everyone else, but in this stage of the game, no one else even has a clue what coal is. So the option of trading for it is out of the question. Problem 2 arises.
2. Where is the "Hey how about selling that worthless black stuff to us?" in the diplomacy menu? Its not there. It needs to be there, regardless of whether they have the technology to harness it is one thing, but supplying the technology to harvest is a completely different aspect.
I ran into the same problem with Oil, and by now I've discovered the whole world, have active relationships with everyone. Huge map, and count em, 5 , yes 5 total oil deposits. There's hope!! One is in my land, but....it runs out after about 2 battlehips. As did my Iron eventually, but I managed to pull off a classic AI move, and found a city right next to another civs' city and pump a Temp/Library/University and take control of the Iron.
Aluminum and Rubber weren't very hard finds, upon thier associated tech discoveries 2 of each showed up within my
territory. Fission here I come. Alas, 3 Uranium deposits on the enitre planet, and guess what none are even near me or can possibly be controlled.
It's now 1868, I'm building my Space Shuttle, Democracy is working well, For some reason I cannot elminate pollution entirely like Civ2 (Rounding up on the 50% (Recycling Center) on 3 = 2 is a joke) That 2 is pollution every 4 turns. The cities remove production of that square, and if you've ever had 31 or 32 size cities, they need that square. When the pollution is gone they dont re-utilize it. Needs to be fixed. Back to the point. Oh yah its 1868, Space Shuttle, Democracy, best ship I can build is an Ironclad, and the best military unit I can build is a Marine or Cavalry. I can build a space shuttle for God's sake, but because the Fierce Egyptian War Chariot's (sarcasm) control the closest known Oil deposit, I cant build any Units that wont lose to those War Chariots if Im attacked by more than 2. This holds true for my Infantry, Marines, Riflemen, you name it.
One hell of a post, I know, but I think that if your going to include existing/existed Civs, existing/existed units, that there should probably a somewhat more reliable and more abundant supply of strategic resources. The current supply shortage is mind-boggling.
If I don't have Oil how exactly are my citizens (On bikes obviously, cars require oil) causing all this pollution?
Summation:
1. Increase Strategic Resources
2. Increase Strategic Resources
3. Put Firepower back in, Civ 2 first introduced Firepower to address this problem in Civ 1. Why remove it?
4. Allow Civs not able to use a resource, still Trade/Sell it to Civs that can use it.
5. Military units to be able to be upgraded in "By City" veiw in the military advisor. Currently only upgraded in the "By Unit" view
6. Need to be able to sort cities by more than just founding date.
I wanna make that wonder in the city with the highest production, and scrolling around is tedious.
7. There needs to be something to help city growth from size 12 to the discovery of Sanitation, size 12 cities happen very early compared to Sanitation.

And to the guy that asked about Colonization, If you have a an address, I'd be more than happy to supply you with a copy, It's a great game.

Alot of other people had a some good ideas also, I only think mine are good, because, well.... they are mine.
 
Thank you SO muc Fireaxis. You are the ONLY game development company I have ever purchased from that makes the effort to help colorblind (and partially colorblind) users. This will make things 100x easier! keep up the good work!
 
I havent seen this topic come up on this thread.. or maybe I just missed it with all the trash going around here.. but what about showing the A/I's form of govt with your foreign advisor screen rather than the military advisor screen.. I find this very annoying and it seems more logical this way.
 
Hehehe, geez the flames have sure piled up!!

Originally posted by costanza
*Ahem*

I can't understand why someone forced me to buy this game, and then forced me to play it hours and hours and hours. Stuff is wrong with it and yet I am forced to keep playing it and keep complaining about everything wrong. I find the only thing more satisfying than playing a game I seem to dislike is using a messageboard to pick at other people who disagree with me.

Heheheh, that and the fact I get to see the ass licking of Firaxis continue! Flame on!


Originally posted by costanza
Synopsis of my day:

-Woke up and ate breakfast; there was a burnt Cheerio. The whole box is obviously ruined. Looking for General Mills's email address.

-Got dressed and went to work. My car rattled on the way over. Can't wait for Honda to provide a patch.

-Had lunch at McDonalds. The meal I ate did *not* look like the one in the commercial. Don't know why they keep quiet about this.

Thanks for giving us a your diary digest

Originally posted by costanza
I guess we should all look at Mike's life as a tragedy. Poor, poor mike. Your life has been ruined by some bugs in a game. Your life is so short that to have anything less than perfection is an obvious travesty of your rights.

Your damn right its a travesty!

Originally posted by costanza
And you know what else? If you don't like the game, stop playing it. If it's broken, go find something else to do.

.... Thats why I am posting? If I was playing how could I be finding all this time to post and debate?

Originally posted by costanza
Don't like the other posters here? Then don't listen.

Hmmm, maybe you should follow your own advice :lol:

Originally posted by costanza
Think complaining like a cry-baby will get you anything? Think again.

My complaining has pryed some answers out of Firaxis. So yes, my complaining like a cry-baby DID get me something. :lol:

Originally posted by costanza
Can't spell condescending? Well, that's your problem; you're only embarrassing yourself.

Congrats! Now I can enter you into a 6th grade spelling bee contest! :goodjob:

Originally posted by costanza
I didn't like the bug in Super Mario Bros that made the numbers into symbols when you had so many extra lives. But I didn't whine and cry about it and then try to beg everyone for my attention while I complained. I played the game, even in an imperfect form.

I never earned enough extra lives to get that to happen..... :(

Originally posted by costanza
Just out of curiosity, why in the world did you buy the game in the first place? And what in the world do you do when your computer crashes? You got Bill Gates and Michael Dell on speed dial. After all...you are the paying customer. Sounds like your circumstances control you. How sad.

I built the computer myself. So you can imagine how often I whine and complain on my own private message board. :lol:

Also, there are enough people slamming Bill Gates for me already. :p

One last thing If I am leading such a sad life posting about what a ****ty job Firaxis did............what kind of sad life are you leading.......when you go around posting messages complaining about my complaints?

Wait! Don't answer that! Your ego might not be able to take it :lol:
 
Originally posted by Paragon
You cry yourself to sleep a lot, don't you Mike? It is rare that I read such condescending and arrogant posts on these boards, but I have to tell you, you come across as a whiny brat who can't find his pacifier, so you rant like a madman about how bad Civ 3 is, and how evil and unprofessional Firaxis are, and how everyone doesn't seem to understand your many gripes about the game, how people misunderstand and bend your words... Bla bla bla...

I don't cry, I happen to get quite a bit of enjoyment out of it. And its not like me vs the world here. People agree that Firaxis a)didn't test the product properly, b) have been quite the bums considering we have to spend 5 days prying a one word answer out of Firaxis.


Originally posted by Paragon
Stop crying and play the ****ing game! Remember, this IS a game!

:cry:

I am waiting for the patch to come out! I have 3 games I stopped right at the point I researched flight!

And no, its not a game. its a product I paid 50+ bucks for. Would you like it if they released Planet of the Apes DVD and the last 1/4 of the movie was all static? I can see the posts now. But you can watch the FIRST 1 and a half hours!! Stop Complaining? Geez you must cry a lot!

:lol:
 
Awww.....crap!! He really got us all that time. :(

I feel so inferior to Mike's extraordinary wit and ability to waste space. I'm also amazed that he built his own computer; I've been doing that myself since he was in diapers.....wait....he's still is.

On a real issue, I agree with kcbrown; I think there should be better interaction with the desktop. Alt-tab doesn't minimize the game at all, it just brings some other window over it. I assume this is because the game requires its own special video instructions, but other more compicated and video hogging games have this ability. This is one of the technical (non-gameplay) issues several of us would like to see addressed.
 
Sounds like a nice patch...

Now I just have to find more time to play...

It's pretty busy being a first-year teacher, plus I have too many hobbies... Gotta go running, gotta play X-Box, gotta surf the web, gotta play Civ, gotta prepare lesson plans, gotta grade...
 
Originally posted by Mike C

And no, its not a game. its a product I paid 50+ bucks for. Would you like it if they released Planet of the Apes DVD and the last 1/4 of the movie was all static? I can see the posts now. But you can watch the FIRST 1 and a half hours!! Stop Complaining? Geez you must cry a lot!

No one is disputing that there are things wrong with the game. No one is disputing that telling Firaxis about these problems is fine. It's the manner in which you do it that's ridiculous.

People think that just because they're on a bulletin board they can be as obnoxious as they want and it's fine. Try acting the way you do here in real life, and see how many times you get shunned (or worse) because ppl will think you're a complete ass.

Common courtesy goes a long way. If you think that you've gotten results because you are insulting, you're simply deluding yourself.

BTW, things like fixing air superiority might be a pretty simple thing. I agree. Have you ever missed something at work or on a test that's pretty simple? Maybe you didn't have time to do it because of everything else going on at the time. It doesn't mean you're unprofessional or incompetent. It just means something slipped by. Just like in work/school, Firaxis had a deadline.
 
Overall I think this will be a very good patch. On the subject of releasing a game w/ bugs. As a software engineer myself I can say that the major bugs, like air superiority, were likely well known to the programmers at the release. In fact, I bet a lot of these patches were being worked on before release. This happens all the time in the software industry. You have to understand the tradeoffs that a programmer must make in the big scheme of things.

It's likely that the programming team was given a "carved in stone" deadline. Obviously the company wanted this released in time for the Xmas rush, as any corporation understandably would. The programmers likely had zero or little influence on this decision. When you HAVE to get a program out at a certain schedule and you think you'll come up short you can only do two things. One, spend more money and hire more talent. This is generally unwise in any event as adding people late to a project often makes it later. Been there, done that. There's only one other thing you can do after that--cut features.

This is the reality of EVERY piece of software ever released. In the case of Firaxis, I think they did a fine job prioritizing and balancing these conflicting issues. They cut extraneous "bells and whistles" like MP/scenarios/editor features in favor of getting the core game done. Only hardcore gamers, like the ones that frequent this forum, care about this stuff. Your casual gamer has no idea about this stuff and likely wouldn't influence their purchase.

And, yes, I don't see how they weren't aware about stuff like the air superiority thing. I'm sure they knew it was there at release. They just figured it wasn't a "show stopper" enough to delay going to market. And in my gameplay, it's been annoying, but not something that makes the entire game "broke". And besides, it was something that was easily fixed in a quick patch. And now they're following up on it. Guys, it's only been six weeks since release for this patch to come out. And it looks to correct so many of the problems that folks have been complaining about. For a game that expects to have a long shelf life, this is not too long a time.

Overall, it appears they've done a fine job balancing these issues and delivering a game that, while not perfect (no software is), was good enough to release and what quirks it has are correctable in a relatively short time. No software has ever been released that I know of that was simultaneously on time, on budget and had no bugs. There's always SOME compromise and in this case I think they made the right choices.

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1. Increase Strategic Resources
2. Increase Strategic Resources

This is pretty easy to do in the editor. Just load the original rules and raise the numbers.
 
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