Clashing of Empires - A standard map version of Rhye's Civilization Expanded

[V. Soma]

we need lots of tests...
I would like to have about a dozen this week!

In the last two I had until early middle age,
Pax Romana was built in around 300 and 500...
It is later than AD 100 - can it be because
I changed it to give hoplite every 7 and not every 5 turns?

Of course, we need tests running to the end, too...
I wonder how China is doing,
and whether the Zulus are getting up a level...
Oh, and Japan...
they are somewhat underdogs...

 

[narmox]

The reason for the scout boats at the Maya's starting place is
to make ALL THREE AMERICAN civs meet at the start,
so they can exchange techs and develop faster...
(one boat is Incan, the other is Iroquois)

They can't do that if the scout boats get destroyed by barb galleys in 3950 BC

 

[V. Soma]

Trying v4-test..
Update: Romans built Pax Romana in 210 AD, in Tolosa!

Nice, I like it that it happens around the end of ancient age

BTW: we should count how many turns Pax Romana works...
Also the other unit-giving wonders -
to see the amount of units they produce
...to see if it is balanced and OK...

meanwhile the vikings and Celts are at war, and it's not going well for the Celts...

Good news!
I am for the Vikings and I do not want overpowered Celts...

 

[V. Soma]

They can't do that if the scout boats get destroyed by barb galleys in 3950 BC

Oh, yes, they can!
Just go and play a test as Mayans!

They DO contact,
just as Romans and Carthaginians do the same way

 

[narmox]

Oh, yes, they can!
Just go and play a test as Mayans!

They DO contact,
just as Romans and Carthaginians do the same way

ohh I see, the 2 galleys near the mayan capital were not mayan

 

[V. Soma]

ohh I see, the 2 galleys near the mayan capital were not mayan

Sure!
And I also took very good care of that they get destroyed...
6-7 barb galley rush to them like sharks...

 

[narmox]

we need lots of tests...
I would like to have about a dozen this week!

In the last two I had until early middle age,
Pax Romana was built in around 300 and 500...
It is later than AD 100 - can it be because
I changed it to give hoplite every 7 and not every 5 turns?

Of course, we need tests running to the end, too...
I wonder how China is doing,
and whether the Zulus are getting up a level...
Oh, and Japan...
they are somewhat underdogs...

I tested v4 until about 1700 AD the first time, Zulus were still alive, China was rich and advanced...

In my previous v32 game with the Celts, the Japanese surprised me actually. They had only 6 cities: 3 in Japan, 3 in southeast Asia.. And yet, THEY built the Encyclopedia and nearly built the olympics and hoover dam! Suddenly they were on par with everybody else, and quite rich for it!

 

[V. Soma]

I tested v4 until about 1700 AD the first time, Zulus were still alive, China was rich and advanced...

In my previous v32 game with the Celts, the Japanese surprised me actually. They had only 6 cities: 3 in Japan, 3 in southeast Asia.. And yet, THEY built the Encyclopedia and nearly built the olympics and hoover dam! Suddenly they were on par with everybody else, and quite rich for it!

My heart is thumping with joy!

 

[narmox]

yeah my game with the Celts went well enough until the 2020s.. I actually made it to the modern age in the very late 1900's.. Everything was fine till I _stopped_ my war with Ethiopia. This allowed them to kick Joruba's butt, which cut me off from Rubber, and at the same time India declared war on me, which cut me off from oil (no more Babylon btw)... I had only 5 tanks, and couldn't built anything above cavalry and rifleman! heh.

I probably could've still won this war, but I decided not to bother and test v4 instead

 

[V. Soma]

...to kick Joruba's butt, which cut me off from Rubber, and at the same time India declared war on me, which cut me off from oil (no more Babylon btw)

Good to see that my intentions work:
to create real earth-like conflicts about resources...

Ethiopia is is lucky to have rubber and infantry...
And yes, those Babylonian/Indian tanks... might by scary...

 

[narmox]

In a short test as the Celts, Rome built Leaning Tower and Pax Romana between 100 AD and 200 AD. In another test as Babylon they built Pax at 130 AD, in another at 230 AD or so. Don't remember the exact years, but it's often near that period. In another test it took them longer, not sure why.

 

[narmox]

Good to see that my intentions work:
to create real earth-like conflicts about resources...

Ethiopia is is lucky to have rubber and infantry...
And yes, those Babylonian/Indian tanks... might by scary...

Oh yeah conflicts for resources, plus actual trade. I give them horses or luxuries or techs or money, in exchange for oil or rubber. It's fun.

Althoughj the one unrealistic thing compared to real earth is that India and Ethiopia become powerhouses, instead of the European civs

But I can live with that cuz if I'm a european civ I become a powerhouse

 

[narmox]

Overall so far with v4-test, there are 2 things I noticed:

1 - (As the celts at least, but with the AI it seems similar too) it seems harder to do conquests.
2 - but at the same time, the empire itself is more stable and can develop pretty well without requiring a huge territory. Must be the small changes you made to england, ireland, africa, europe, and Pax Romana (which the romans built in 710 AD this time, after all the christian wonders were built lol).

Ethiopia isn't huge (yet), Carthage is holding up pretty well though I just captured southern spain with my gallic swordsmen, Rome and Scands are healthy, so is Babylon and the asian civs - Japan even got the great wall!

More updates as I keep testing. BTW this is with debug mode and reveal map off...

 

[narmox]

There is 1 problem with the new England! With the new city placement, it is now impossible to build Shakespeare's theatre because the dyes are too far from Londinium, or the furs are too far from the other city in the lower left corner of the island...

 

[V. Soma]

OK, I will solve it, this fur-dyes problem...

Also: AI Carthage is so stupid it doesn't connect dyes to the capital.
So I exchange tiles of the dyes and the game resource...
This way Carthage will again be able to have the Great Library...

Yesterday I had another test:
Rome got 7 cities but hey, Celts and Carthage attacked Rome
and destroyed the Roman city in Hispania!
Rome was again stupid NOT to build our famous Pax Romana...
Only in 750, when they had been into middle ages and had Invention...

And just why it is that Rome loves to build the Leaning Tower?
I wonder...

I have a new idea for Pax Romana:
Let it give money:
extra gold for tiles already producing gold!
Since now Rome tends to build more road, it could be meaningful
I am also toying with the idea of Pax Romana
pruducing workers instead of hoplites,
since the AI loves to build military anyway - how does that sound?


Thanks, narmox, for the feedback,
this is exactly we need now, while testing...

 

[narmox]

That could cripple Roma. 1 worker every 5 or 7 turns? Pop will go down quickly...

The only thing I can see that Pax Romana doesn't have and Leaning Tower has is that Leaning Tower can become a tourist attraction.

 

[V. Soma]

That could cripple Roma. 1 worker every 5 or 7 turns? Pop will go down quickly...

No, no, the worker would EXTRA and FREE, with no cost, too!

The only thing I can see that Pax Romana doesn't have and Leaning Tower has is that Leaning Tower can become a tourist attraction.

Oh, my! Can it be really the REASON!?
I will then try it - tourist attraction...

 

[narmox]

Hopefully THAT is the reason... Maybe Pax Romana can be weakened a bit, unless a super-wonder is what Rome really needs!? I just hope Rome doesnt become invincible lol.

One thing I learned: never make peace when you have a military alliance - in the next 20 turns, everyone else will declare war on you for no reason, and nobody will want to make new military alliances. heh. So harsh...

 

[narmox]

Hm.. I just checked in the editor and Pax Romana is already a tourist attraction!? damn.. Maybe the AI likes the leaning tower's extra protection.. nope Pax Romana has that too.

weird!?

Other diff I can see: Leaning tower has only Militaristic, Pax Romana has more checkmarks in Characteristics. Which should make PR more attractive I think, as that would create a golden age? Farfetched idea: perhaps it only builds PR after it got its golden age from fighting with Legion? DEBUG mode should answer this...

I am really puzzled!

BTW: in my latest test, as the Celts, Rome had a very very good road + improvements network over its entire empire.. I doubt extra workers will do any good except perhaps overpower them. More tests will answer I suppose.. I played until the late 1700's.

 

[narmox]

Another test as the Celts.. I did a few changes on the map probably similar to yours (for dyes in England and Carthage). Rome built Pax Romana in Lugdunum (northern spain) in 230 AD! Then declared war on me the turn after, by sending ONE legion to Gesoracium, in southwest england haha.