Classical Golden Age is too difficult

[Leyrann]

First to find natural wonder.
Splendid Holy Site.
City of Awe.
Ancient Era religion founded.

That should seriously be enough to get a golden age, in my not so humble opinion. But no, add everything together, and you get 12 points here (including Great Prophet). Add one for Pantheon, two for two civs met (pretty average), two for a barbarian camp (pretty average), throw in two random points for tundra and city near flood plains, another two for becoming a city state's suzerain in the ancient era and you're at... Exactly. 21 points. Four more needed!

Just what do you need to do to hit that Classical Era Golden Age other than hope that you happen to get your great start exactly in a game where you have an ancient era unique unit/building/district/improvement?

 

[pkaem]

Barb camps, civ's met are the big ones. Also goodie huts. A two scout start into settler often does it for me. If I want it. You can pick almani as first gov aswell and send her to cs you already got an envoy, you'll get forst suzerain bonus there. Also keep an eye out for +5 districts and an expansion on another continent. If you manage to meet all civs it's huge too, but only realistic on pangeas. Imo it's not too difficult. But if you just build holy sites and shrines without units and or scouts, it's gonna be difficult.

 

[Leucarum]

Agreed. Scouts are huge. They will probably provide the bulk of your era score unless you start isolated/cut off.

As an aside if you are pushing for an early religion you have to spend a lot of resources to do so, that may be actually starving you from other potential sources of era score rather than helping...

 

[Victoria]

Just what do you need to do to hit that Classical Era Golden Age

Build the worlds forst ship +3 or your first ship +2... same for swords and horses
Use Amani to suzerain +2 and jump her every 5 turns if there are CS she can do for more +2
Kill a barb camp close to you is +3
Settle a different continent, or on desert or floodplains for +1
Find a wonder +3, settle next to the wonder +3
+1 for each civ you meet.
Kill a civ +4
... and so on.

If you want to hunker down, not explore then do not expect one. Some people want dark ages, too many golden early is less later. Doing one thing is not enough. They are not easy but if you want them, be aware of what scores and push for it.

 

[Leyrann]

Build the worlds forst ship +3 or your first ship +2... same for swords and horses
Use Amani to suzerain +2 and jump her every 5 turns if there are CS she can do for more +2
Kill a barb camp close to you is +3
Settle a different continent, or on desert or floodplains for +1
Find a wonder +3, settle next to the wonder +3
+1 for each civ you meet.
Kill a civ +4
... and so on.

If you want to hunker down, not explore then do not expect one. Some people want dark ages, too many golden early is less later. Doing one thing is not enough. They are not easy but if you want them, be aware of what scores and push for it.

But that's the point. I know what scores, and still I have to play like it's a multiplayer game or at least a Deity game to even stand a chance. Just having a really good start with 9 free era score doesn't cut it.

I cannot just be playing to the opportunities that present themselves, I have to determine my path beforehand, because if I don't, I can't get my golden age. That goes straight against the design philosophy of "play the map". If I discover a 4-tile faith natural wonder on turn 5, then focus on religion and the era points from the natural wonder, I should flow into a golden age. That's what playing the map is.

 

[GrumboMumbo]

Just out of interest, why is it so important for you to get a golden age in classical?

 

[Disgustipated]

I almost never get one, and usually don't want one in classical. I'd rather get one later when I can get more out of monumentality. I often save up faith just for that.

 

[Victoria]

They are not designed to be got every game.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I like that it's not a given and you have to try to get one. That said, I don't usually try unless I am playing someone like Mali or I get a lucky start.

Playing a Civ with a unique that comes in Ancient or early Classical will also give you a tidy +4.

 

[Leyrann]

Just out of interest, why is it so important for you to get a golden age in classical?

Because I got a load of free potential era score at turn 5 of my game. I like to play to opportunities that present themselves, and in this case a lot of era points presented themselves, so I wanted to go for a classical golden age.

They are not designed to be got every game.

Yes but if first to a natural wonder + city next to natural wonder + splendid holy site + ancient era pantheon, great prophet, religion isn't enough to get one in a game, you truly have to come across a miracle to get one.

 

[Gilgameshuggah]

It must be very much dependent on your playing style. I find it really hard to not get classical golden age when I'd often want a dark age instead to get a heroic one next.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Depend on which Civ you're playing with. Religion/Sea based ones may have more points but still somehow difficult on standard Deity. Also it is not difficult for those Civs with 2 ancient uniques.

However, having a dark classical is not a bad thing, especially when you don't have a lot of harbors nor a lot of faith. You need those to make golden age useful, without harbor or faith golden age bonus is not significant.

On the other hand, you can really make good use of the +5 strength card if you're in the dark age. Or the +75% science one if your cities are mainly made up of campus and holy sites.

 

[Victoria]

A dark classical also typically leads to an epic medieval and you get 50% on your eurekas as well as other little bonuses but to go for a golden and miss it by a few points in annoying.
If you build a scout or at least early attack troops you will be finding a lot of potential stuff and will miss a dark most likely but it soon becomes fairly clear if you may miss a golden. For example too many CS around you will kill those incredibly valuable tribal villages. If you cannot find a wonder or iron or horses. If you do not get envoys or goody huts. After a while you get a feel for if a golden is at risk and assess if there is a way to get it.
For example not on my list is levying a CS gives you score and you also get +2 for taking away someone else’s levy.

 

[Leyrann]

A dark classical also typically leads to an epic medieval and you get 50% on your eurekas as well as other little bonuses but to go for a golden and miss it by a few points in annoying.
If you build a scout or at least early attack troops you will be finding a lot of potential stuff and will miss a dark most likely but it soon becomes fairly clear if you may miss a golden. For example too many CS around you will kill those incredibly valuable tribal villages. If you cannot find a wonder or iron or horses. If you do not get envoys or goody huts. After a while you get a feel for if a golden is at risk and assess if there is a way to get it.
For example not on my list is levying a CS gives you score and you also get +2 for taking away someone else’s levy.

But that's exactly my problem, I feel like I did everything right to get a golden age, except for maybe being extremely gamey. I started off with a scout build, had found the natural wonder before that scout was even finished. I don't remember my exact build order, but I believe I built a builder next. I found a barbarian camp, quickly got rid of it with my warrior (who did have to heal up after), continued exploring with both scout and warrior as much as possible. I founded the pantheon that gives a free settler for an early game boost, and I had built a settler as well. I had met a city state with free envoy for being the first, gave them my Mysticism envoy and became suzerain by completing their trade route quest (I'm Rome so I already had roads, I judged the 2 free era points to be worth taking an external instead of internal trade route). I settled a city close enough to the natural wonder to get era score, and immediately started building my holy site next to the wonder that would give the splendid holy site bonus. I ran holy site prayers in my capital to get a religion early enough.

What more could I have done? There were no tribal villages around. There were no barbarian encampments to take. Exploring any more than I did would have meant I couldn't have cleared the barbarians, or alternatively had my warrior at risk of dying. There wasn't even any use in exploring further for era points, as by the end of the Ancient Era I knew the borders of both my neighbors, and I was at the edge of the continent (apart from the natural wonder the start location wasn't very good by the way), so there wouldn't be any tribal villages or barbarian encampments nearby even if I had explored faster (and I couldn't have gone much faster than I did). And sure, perhaps I could have gotten era score from new civs, but I was playing on a continents with islands map with a total of 8 civs. There were 5 civs left for me to meet, and I needed 4 more era score, so that straight up wasn't going to be enough. And other than that, there quite simply just isn't anything I could have done. Perhaps I could have gotten lucky and discovered a second continent and a third city state, allowing me to get era points from managing to get Political Philosophy and a T1 government before the end of the era, but shouldn't a natural wonder this close, used optimally (close city + splendid holy site) and an ancient era religion be enough for a golden age if the rest plays out pretty average?

 

[Victoria]

had met a city state with free envoy for being the first,

That does not give era though

What more could I have done? There were no tribal villages around. There were no barbarian encampments to take.

this is exactly the point I was making, half way through the era this becomes noticeable. Things like moving Amani around are good guaranteed boosts but if you have not taken Amani then you were not serious about a GA.
you could have identified Iron or horses early and then pushed one, the other... or both.
Any coast nearby? The 100% naval build makes it a cheap +2/3 era points which can also help a eureka and an inspiration.
You need something to make up for barb camps, that is what killed you. Moving your troops inside your borders encourages barb camps as the will not spawn within sight. So encouraging camps.... you only need 2-3 camps but if you do not get 2-3 you do need to find others. Choosing an unwanted science or civic discovery because it will give you the first into a new era. Settling 2 away from a volcano, on desert, floodplains are all choices... +3 districts may be worth finishing for the era... chopping in a wonder... a GG first corps or GA first fleet... first inquisition... first time a GG or GA kills an enemy... first improvement after a natural disaster.
Not sure what you mean by gamey, it is a game and to a degree you need to be gamey if the odds are against you or just not complain about it in a thread.

 

[Arent11]

First to find natural wonder.
Splendid Holy Site.
City of Awe.
Ancient Era religion founded.

That should seriously be enough to get a golden age, in my not so humble opinion. But no, add everything together, and you get 12 points here (including Great Prophet). Add one for Pantheon, two for two civs met (pretty average), two for a barbarian camp (pretty average), throw in two random points for tundra and city near flood plains, another two for becoming a city state's suzerain in the ancient era and you're at... Exactly. 21 points. Four more needed!

Just what do you need to do to hit that Classical Era Golden Age other than hope that you happen to get your great start exactly in a game where you have an ancient era unique unit/building/district/improvement?

I regularly get classical golden ages with Norway. Simply from the exploration.

 

[Leyrann]

That does not give era though

No, but it gave me an extra envoy, meaning I had 3 envoys rather than 2 available, and therefore suzerainity.

this is exactly the point I was making, half way through the era this becomes noticeable. Things like moving Amani around are good guaranteed boosts but if you have not taken Amani then you were not serious about a GA.
you could have identified Iron or horses early and then pushed one, the other... or both.
Any coast nearby? The 100% naval build makes it a cheap +2/3 era points which can also help a eureka and an inspiration.
You need something to make up for barb camps, that is what killed you. Moving your troops inside your borders encourages barb camps as the will not spawn within sight. So encouraging camps.... you only need 2-3 camps but if you do not get 2-3 you do need to find others. Choosing an unwanted science or civic discovery because it will give you the first into a new era. Settling 2 away from a volcano, on desert, floodplains are all choices... +3 districts may be worth finishing for the era... chopping in a wonder... a GG first corps or GA first fleet... first inquisition... first time a GG or GA kills an enemy... first improvement after a natural disaster.
Not sure what you mean by gamey, it is a game and to a degree you need to be gamey if the odds are against you or just not complain about it in a thread.

And this is exactly the problem I'm referring to. You have to use every little trick there is in order to get the Golden Age. I understand that it's possible, but you will never get them as a casual player through just playing the game unless you have Ancient Era unique unit and/or infrastructure. I want to be able to play casually, but still get a golden era if I have a very good phase of the game. For most of the game, it works that way, but at the start of the game it quite simply does not. I'm familiar enough with this game that I can sometimes string four, five golden ages together, so why can't I get a classical golden era (which means no higher thresholds!) if I have a lot of era points I normally don't have access to, without going out of my way to get it?

Let me put it another way: I'm not complaining about the difficulty of a classical golden era in isolation. I am complaining about the difficulty of a classical golden era when compared to the difficulty of a medieval, renaissance, industrial or whatever golden era.

I regularly get classical golden ages with Norway. Simply from the exploration.

Norway has both a naval focus (with aforementioned extra era points) and an ancient era unique unit. Of course they're easy to get with Norway.

 

[iammaxhailme]

Honestly I find a dark classical harder to get than a golden one unless I intentionally screw myself over too badly to be worth it

 

[Victoria]

And this is exactly the problem I'm referring to. You have to use every little trick there is in order to get the Golden Age

Not all the time, some of the time... if you want the golden, you may not be ready to use it well and each golden makes the next golden 5 era points harder to get.

you will never get them as a casual player through just playing the game unless you have Ancient Era unique unit and/or infrastructure

And this is it! If you are an encient civ, you should be Albe to get pretty close to a golden. If you are playing an industrial civ like Victoria what the hell are you doing expecting an ancient golden age ‘naturally’

 

[lotrmith]

You're looking for affirmation bias where you're unlikely to get it.