Classical Golden Age is too difficult

[Minou]

They are not supposed to be easy to get - so games it will be impossible. Hence “Golden Age”.

As Victoria mentions Amani is probably your best weapon for era score and an early Scout helps a huge among in finding other Civs, huts, and natural wonders.

Probably the easiest was to get a golden age is play as Gilgamesh and build a Warcart and Ziggurat.

 

[Leyrann]

And this is it! If you are an encient civ, you should be Albe to get pretty close to a golden. If you are playing an industrial civ like Victoria what the hell are you doing expecting an ancient golden age ‘naturally’

Yeah, I understand that part. But you know, a Golden Classical Age would be more fitting on Rome than a Golden Medieval Age, even though the latter is much more likely to happen. Apart from that, I'm not expecting a Golden Classical Age when I go into a game. In fact, I'm very much not expecting it. However, if I then find a Natural Wonder that I can draw nine era score from independent of what else I do, I feel that should enable me to get a Golden Age even if my civilization is not at it's strongest in the Ancient Era.

They are not supposed to be easy to get - so games it will be impossible. Hence “Golden Age”.

You are missing my point. They are plenty easy to get. At least, the medieval, renaissance, industrial etc ones. It's specifically the Classical Era Golden Age that I think is too hard.

Probably the easiest was to get a golden age is play as Gilgamesh and build a Warcart and Ziggurat.

Yeah... no ****.

So, are you saying you are only supposed to get a Golden Classical Era if you have an Ancient Era focused civilization? What about the other Eras? Only a Golden Medieval Era if you have a Classical Era focused civilization? Only a Golden Renaissance Era if you have a Medieval Era focused civilization?

That doesn't make sense. Sure, I understand completely that Sumeria has an easier time getting a Classical Golden Age. I repeat, you are missing my point. It's not about how easy or hard it is for me to get a Golden Age. If my goal is "get a Golden Classical Era", yeah, I'll play Sumeria and I'll whistle a tune as I slide into that Golden Age without even trying. But guess what, I'm not starting a game with the goal to get a Golden Classical Era. I'm starting a game with the intention to play Civilization, and if Civilization throws a ton of era score in my lap, I am then expecting that to result in a Golden Age. If that doesn't happen, era score isn't balanced. Similarly, the opposite holds true as well. If Civilization throws two early surprise wars at me, I'm expecting to fall into a Dark Age because I don't have the opportunity to earn era points. But right now, you need a set of circumstances for a Classical Golden Age that is quite simply too specific.

 

[lotrmith]

I'm starting a game with the intention to play Civilization, and if Civilization throws a ton of era score in my lap, I am then expecting that to result in a Golden Age. If that doesn't happen, era score isn't balanced. Similarly, the opposite holds true as well. If Civilization throws two early surprise wars at me, I'm expecting to fall into a Dark Age because I don't have the opportunity to earn era points. But right now, you need a set of circumstances for a Classical Golden Age that is quite simply too specific.

This is where you are disconnected from the rest of us.

 

[Leyrann]

This is where you are disconnected from the rest of us.

Thank you very much for your on-topic answer.

Perhaps you would appreciate to make a few more generic comments that add absolutely nothing to this discussion, and show no intention from your side to be anything but white noise? Feel free.

(or, of course, you could actually explain why you disagree with me, instead of... well, whatever you're doing right now)

 

[Arent11]

That doesn't make sense. Sure, I understand completely that Sumeria has an easier time getting a Classical Golden Age. I repeat, you are missing my point. It's not about how easy or hard it is for me to get a Golden Age. If my goal is "get a Golden Classical Era", yeah, I'll play Sumeria and I'll whistle a tune as I slide into that Golden Age without even trying. But guess what, I'm not starting a game with the goal to get a Golden Classical Era. I'm starting a game with the intention to play Civilization, and if Civilization throws a ton of era score in my lap, I am then expecting that to result in a Golden Age. If that doesn't happen, era score isn't balanced. Similarly, the opposite holds true as well. If Civilization throws two early surprise wars at me, I'm expecting to fall into a Dark Age because I don't have the opportunity to earn era points. But right now, you need a set of circumstances for a Classical Golden Age that is quite simply too specific.

Well, yes, there are a lot of mechanics in civ 6 that are either completely superfluous or unbalanced. I've said before that cutting half of the game mechanics wouldn't change anything, because most people ignore them or they simply don't play any role.

I mean, just take dark and golden ages. If I'm in a dark age, I would expect 50% production penalty, stagnation of science and culture, troops fighting at lower strength, starvation because of food penalties.

I mean, if they call it a 'dark age', please give me a dark age, dammit!

 

[lotrmith]

Thank you very much for your on-topic answer.

Perhaps you would appreciate to make a few more generic comments that add absolutely nothing to this discussion, and show no intention from your side to be anything but white noise? Feel free.

(or, of course, you could actually explain why you disagree with me, instead of... well, whatever you're doing right now)

There are 20-odd replies explaining why everyone disagrees with you. You're the one ignoring them all just because *you* think you're right, and you came here hoping for others to agree with you.

Sorry.

 

[konokono]

What I don't like about the system is that due to the mechanics you can fall into a dark age just coz you have lots of cities and have had many golden ages in the past. How does it feel thematic at all to fall into a dark age when leading all civs in science and culture output?? imo, the dark age threshold should be like 12 pts and past golden ages should make it harder to get another golden age, rather than make it easier to get a dark age.

Anyway, on topic, I'm not sure what you mean by "if the game throws era score in my lap I expect a golden age". If the game doesn't throw enough at you to get a golden age then why would you expect a golden age? If you really wanted a golden age do other things to get one.

If you're complaining that it's not thematic, I'm not sure why you think you deserve a golden age from founding a religion and discovering a natural wonder, without any conquest or other stuff that typically is associated with a civilization in its prime. What I'm saying is that you have to do a variety of golden age like things to get a golden age... as it should be. If anything, the problem is that it's too easy to get a golden age in later eras due to the dedications

 

[Leyrann]

There are 20-odd replies explaining why everyone disagrees with you. You're the one ignoring them all just because *you* think you're right, and you came here hoping for others to agree with you.

Sorry.

If you don't feel like discussing something on a forum, no one is forcing you to participate. So go away. And leave the actual posting to people who are willing to discuss things.

Anyway, on topic, I'm not sure what you mean by "if the game throws era score in my lap I expect a golden age". If the game doesn't throw enough at you to get a golden age then why would you expect a golden age? If you really wanted a golden age do other things to get one.

What I mean is that with my normal playstyle (as someone who can quite comfortably beat Emperor) I expect to get into a normal age on average. If I then get so much free era score that I normally don't get, I expect to get into a golden age, as I'm receiving significantly more era score than I (again, as an experienced player playing my normal playstyle) normally do.

Also, perhaps too much to get into right now, but I feel like golden ages are a little counter-intuitive in general, because you're most likely to get a golden age the era after you were historically the strongest, because that's when you have the era points from your uniques.

 

[Victoria]

because you're most likely to get a golden age the era after you were historically the strongest,

A civs golden age in reality is bestowed on it retrospectively and based on when it was doing well and I feel the mechanic in the game is the best option to replicate this. You are not doing well and build some UU/UB etc which then pumps you into a golden age and not only do these things help give the civ a boost to a golden age but they come historically roughly at the right time.
An average player playing emperor without pushing a golden age should not just get one in my view, you either need to be at the right time for the civ, be lucky, or be ‘gamey’

 

[Disgustipated]

An average player playing emperor without pushing a golden age should not just get one in my view, you either need to be at the right time for the civ, be lucky, or be ‘gamey’

This. If you are playing higher levels you can't really complain about not getting golden ages in classical. At Prince level it's fairly easy, but gets gradually more difficult the higher level you go. I always find it strange people playing higher levels complaining about the difficulty of things. It's supposed to be that way. Now if it's too difficult to get a classical golden age on Prince difficulty, then I might agree we have a problem.

 

[Minou]

I’ve been in situations like this with a bunch of “free” Era Score at the start and then botched the Golden Age. You’re coasting at 18 Era Score and then suddenly the countdown starts on turn 30 and you realize you haven’t planned a way to make it over the top.

Often it comes down to trade offs. That first ship is a good chunk of Era Score, but do you want to plant your third city on the coast and build it, when there is a better space inland? Is it worth pissing off your neighbor by forward settling just to get another point? These decisions make the early game a lot of fun,

For me the biggest decider if whether to go for a Classical Golden is Amani. If I have the right land / culture to get her early and 1-2 free envoys for meeting city states first I find it’s usually easy to bounce her around for the final points (plus I just love levying city states to explore, clear barb camps, or pillage). There are some maps where the first governor tile comes late or you need Magus first, and then it’s often hard or impossible.

I guess my argument is that if you had all that early Era Score a Classical Golden Age WAS possible, you just needed to commit to it with fast Amani, a coastal city or another early Scout (maybe there were only 2 AIs on the continent but on many maps you can meet more if you explore early).

 

[Bangau]

For me it's a strategy game, not a simulation. For me the question is more: is it balanced and challenging? I feel the era scoring mechanism is both. It's a well designed game mechanic I think.

 

[UWHabs]

OP talks about getting to 21 era score. Going back to that post, let's figure out how to get to 25. 12 for the religion + 1 for pantheon + 2 for civs met we'll take as completely fixed values. Thus, your "base" era score is 15, meaning you need 10 more. Some options that maybe get you those 10 points:
-Going with 1-2 scouts early, you get 1 point for each hut you open. If you get a nice stretch of map, it's not unreasonable to get 4-5 score from them alone, never mind potentially more scouting leading you to meeting more civs
-Killing a barb camp gives 1 point, but killing one near your city is worth 3.
-While I rarely have time to get Amani twice to city-states in the ancient era, planned right you can get 2 points there.
-City-building can give you multiple extra score. Settling on desert or tundra, settling near floodplains or a volcano, and you can often get an extra point or two. You also get a point for "rebuilding after a disaster", so settling near a floodplain and having it flood early might be worth farming one of those tiles for that score
-That's not even factoring in using iron or horses or building a ship, or if you get that early scout and can get more points from getting an early pantheon

So basically, to me where OP went "slow" was targeting the wrong barb camps to hunt down, and not scouting enough. I find given the current sources of era score, I can almost never get a dark age, usually ending up around 15. So if I can find a "free" source of 7-10 era score early (if you're lucky to be near a natural wonder or get that "first person on a new continent" bonus), that's enough that I will consciously make an effort for a few more era points and make a run for it sometimes.

 

[Ziad]

*laughs in Phoenicia*

 

[Disgustipated]

*laughs in Phoenicia*

I'm about to get one in my Scythia game, and I haven't even built the Kurgan (can't seem to build them in flood plains). I thought I would miss it, but then I got Political Philosophy in time which gave me enough era score to get it. A lot of games I can't get that in time, the era went slower than usual this time. Saka horse archer was enough to get it. I was going to play Scythia last, they are one of my least liked civs, but the horse thing is kind of interesting.

 

[Pure24]

I'm okay with Classical Golden Age being difficult. First of all, it wasn't as easy for Civilisations long ago to be... enlightened. Compared to nowadays.

Second, it just makes getting that first Golden Age really sweet. The mid-game Golden Ages are easy (and they start getting harder again near the end), and I'm okay with that

 

[Velvet glove]

I find that if you are determined to get it most of the time you can. Just keep an eye on the number of turns left and be ready for your emergency measures - the things that you weren't going to do but that can get you some extra score. There is a mod Real era tracker that shows you all the sources of era score and allows you to bookmark them - they are so many that it's easy to forget some. But as others have said above, you aren't supposed to always be able to get one even if it is annoying to be just a couple of points off.

What seems more difficult is to get a Classical Dark age while still doing things.

 

[UWHabs]

I find that if you are determined to get it most of the time you can. Just keep an eye on the number of turns left and be ready for your emergency measures - the things that you weren't going to do but that can get you some extra score. There is a mod Real era tracker that shows you all the sources of era score and allows you to bookmark them - they are so many that it's easy to forget some. But as others have said above, you aren't supposed to always be able to get one even if it is annoying to be just a couple of points off.

What seems more difficult is to get a Classical Dark age while still doing things.

Yeah, especially with the points for settling near floodplains/volcanoes, you have to be in a real special location to get that early dark age. Had a game recently where once I found my immediate surroundings, I refused to explore any more so that I could stay under the limit. And even then, you can almost accidentally get there.

 

[Ondolindë]

I also disagree with the OP. My experience has been that something has to go wrong to not get one like settling in the wrong location, too many Barbarians not taken care of on time, not scouting, etc. I mostly play on Emperor, but I’m playing an Immortal game right now and managed to get a Golden Age to my happy surprise although I had to fend off three Barbarian waves from the north and the south. What helped me both survive and get points was get rid of their camps and scouting ASAP among others. I believe many have also given many ideas that should be taken into account.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

I generally don't aim for a classical golden age, since it is mainly chance (huts/close barbs). I generally prefer a classical dark age actually. Because if I get a dark age, it means most of my "easy" era scores (mainly +3 districts/wonders) are yet to come, and getting a medieval heroic age will be easy.

But I aim for a clasiical dark age because I don't get much from a classical golden age (my engine is not yet good enough, not much faith production, no commercial hub, few districs), and loyalty is not a problem even if the AI gets a golden age. Moreover, the dark age policys are sweet, especially isolationism (+2 food and prod for internal routes). And when you reach medieval heroic, THERE you can really enjoy the dedications (monumentallity: get a few settlers if required, but maily 5 charges builders to fuly upgrade your cities, pen brush: free culture, free inquiry: free science).

But the problem again is that getting that almost mythical classical dark age is rather difficult, and prone to RNG, since barbs have to be plucked down fast (so camps need to be razed...), and hut really are powerful so it is hard to pass...