Clive1 - Monarch (Training ?) game

[Sir Clive]

Be careful that you set research to get Atomic Theory and Electronics the turn before the ToE finishes.

Hmm - this is a bit complicated for me , need a bit of help

Industrialization is due in 5 . ToE is due in 4 . Does this mean

a) I should switch research now to Atomic Theory (would be due in 9) or

b) MM Riverbend so that ToE is due in 6 (ie after Industrialisation has completed) and then switch to Atomic Theory ?

 

[Bede]

Hmm - this is a bit complicated for me , need a bit of help

Industrialization is due in 5 . ToE is due in 4 . Does this mean

a) I should switch research now to Atomic Theory (would be due in 9) or

b) MM Riverbend so that ToE is due in 6 (ie after Industrialisation has completed) and then switch to Atomic Theory ?

When ToE builds the first tech it delivers is the current research object, so if you are researching Industrialization that is the first freebie and we really want AT then Electronics for Hoover.

There are two ways to play this one: Set research to AT and shut it off completely, or do b). Since we are so long cash and so far ahead of the other guys, I vote for b). There are a few other possibilities but that is the most straightforward and nets us three techs instead of only two.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I haven't looked at the save yet.

Is there a prebuild for Hoover?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

MM Riverbend so that ToE is due in 6 (ie after Industrialisation has completed) and then switch to Atomic Theory ?

Minor correction:
Research is completed before the wonder, so getting Industrialisation the same turn ToE completes is fine, no need for a turn in between.

 

[Bede]

Thanks Doc. I wasn't sure we could make the adjustment to match the two.

@AdmT,
No pre-build for Hoover. I kinda blew it on my turns as the math escaped me at the time and I decided we could wait for factories to come up anyway. Riverbend can complete Hoover in about the time every place else has factories up and running anyway. Also we are very long cash so we could rush a factory in Riverbend after ToE then segue into the dam from there.

 

[Sir Clive]

Minor correction:
Research is completed before the wonder, so getting Industrialisation the same turn ToE completes is fine, no need for a turn in between.

Thanks Doc - I'll see if I can switch science down a notch or two and make some more money

 

[Sir Clive]

I haven't looked at the save yet.

Is there a prebuild for Hoover?

Hoover needs to be on a river right ?

Riverbend is producing 17spt (but still has 3 turns left on ToE) . Next most productive town on a river is < 10 spt. So I think we will have to wait 3 turns
and use riverbend. Have set Vineyard (20 spt) to Palace in case we need a fuure prebuild.

 

[viper275]

Over 80 cities and only 24 workers. OUCH!

This isn't counting foreign workers. They should bring up the number.

Egypt has Nationalism? Last I checked they didn't, but I could be wrong. EDIT: And Arabia? Last I knew they were backwards.

 

[Sir Clive]

Pre turn - check how much the AI want for Nationalism.
Arabia - best is we give Medicine + Incense + 500 g for Nat
Egypt - we give Silks + Electricity for Nat + 77g + 40 gpt

I suppose it may not be sensible to be taking all their gold as they are our ally
but I am going to do it anyway

Follow my preturn suggestions and Bede's recommendations. ToE is now due in 6 in riverbend.
Don't MM riverbend borders since it's pointless making excess food at size 12 with no
hospital and I've just reduced the spt so that ToE appears after Industrialisation

Switch clowns to taxmen where they are not needed.

Switch shield poor towns from military to workers where we havent got more
than 10 shields in the bin already

Rush Aqueduct in St Petersburg

Wake up all the sleeping workers in Riverbend , split them into groups of 6 and get them
railing in different directions.

IT - Mongols attack Cuello. Egypt and Arabia sign MPP. Babylon and Egypt sgn MPP
Aleppo builds University. Think about switching to Shakes (due in 25) .We don't need
it as we are very happy but think about it for denial purposes. Decide to switch to Cav

1455 (1) - Move more troops towards the Mongol area. There are a hell of a lot of Mongol
troops around . Workers carry on railing.

IT - Mongols recapture Cuello Our defences in these former Mongolian
towns are looking fairly weak . We need to get some more troops over here ASAP !
Arabs request a rights of Passage and MPP. Decline for the moment.
Set Vineyard to Palace as pre-build for Hoover.


1460 (2) - Industrialisation and ToE are both due in 3 turns. Army retakes Cuello.
Workers rail.

IT - Mongols recapture Kaminaljuyu. Mongols kill a couple of Cav and capture all the
cannons that were with them near Palenque .
Egyptians declare war on us .Egyptians capture Karachi . Egyptians attack
and kill units passing through Egypt on their way to Mongolia. Egyptians break
through choke point on Egyptian / Mongolian border
It is not looking too good . Our troops in the republic formally known as Mongolia
are under severe pressure. Our (former Indian cities) in the north are poorly defended.

This is normally where I do badly . At least we are all railed up and we can get any
unit to our northern border in 1 turn. We have 4068 g in the bank . I am thinking we should
now blow some of it on upgrading our Knights to Cavalry , and some more rushing more Kinghts.


I'm posting now since although I have only played 2 turns we're in a spot of bother
and I'd like some suggestions before I continue.

We had a gpt deal with Egypt for Nationalism. Is that why they declared ? Sorry if I screwed up here .

 

[viper275]

Sounds logical on why, but we've had safe GPT deals before. I say: I'm guessing this is going to be a short war that the AIs do when they feel really stupid. Egypt is in Democracy. WW will get them and they'll want peace. Take back a couple cities and get some from Egypt while you're at it (they just founded one near Mongolia.) Don't get alliances against Cleo because you'll be locked at war for 20 turns and this probably won't be too painful.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

My how things are fluid.

I was going to suggest running the pop. on all former Mayan towns to 1 using taxmen (still not a bad idea).

My other suggestions were to release Border Patrol for pillaging duty, use the Knight Armies to take and hold the mountains on the horde invasion route, and to lauch a naval invasion at Chokepoint Charlie to slow down the horde.

In light of events, hold Chitzen Itza at all costs even if if costs you other towns (raze 'em - we have that pump thingy in our capital). Forget the naval invasion for now. Get MA with Arabs against Egpyt for lux. + gpt. Produce cavalry everywhere it makes sense. If you get the MA with Arabs, upgrade the khights in Smolensk and wake the cav. in Smolensk to counterattack Cleo. You can also use our navy to move new troops to CI for reinforcement.

IIRC, we now have nationalism, so we can draft. Lets get some riflemen asap. Also, think about upgrading and releasing the troops that are garrisoning the cities far from the front. We don't need 'em for happiness and we can counter any invasion withour our rail net. Yes, I am suggesting no troops in cities far from the front and any potential front. This is the time to use our cash to upgrade our military (what are you saving it for?)

Final thought - Cleo's religous, IIRC, democracy. Not for long if she's gonna persecute this war. Any government change should set her research back a fair bit.

EDIT: Viper and I x-posted. I defer to Viper on the MA. I don't like unprovoked attacks and tend to take them too personally.

 

[Sir Clive]

Sounds logical on why, but we've had safe GPT deals before. I say: I'm guessing this is going to be a short war that the AIs do when they feel really stupid. Egypt is in Democracy. WW will get them and they'll want peace. Take back a couple cities and get some from Egypt while you're at it (they just founded one near Mongolia.) Don't get alliances against Cleo because you'll be locked at war for 20 turns and this probably won't be too painful.

Thanks for the advice Viper ! It's 23-10 here now but I'll try to play a couple more turns tonight.

Plan - move as many troops as possible towards the northern border. Try to capture / recapture weak egyptian towns, get peace ASAP fro a reasonable return. This is where I wish we had espionage ! Try to recapture our cannons that the Mongols stole from us which are now in Palenque

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Forget what I said about defering to VIper - Arabs have MPP with Egypt and will attack us nect turn if we don't get MA, IIRC.

 

[Sir Clive]

Forget what I said about defering to VIper - Arabs have MPP with Egypt and will attack us nect turn if we don't get MA, IIRC.

Arabs just attached us and burnt Banana Marsh to the ground Things are going badly but I have one more turn to play (to turn 5) and we should at least have some land left at the end of that so I willl play it , post and go to bed .

One other thing I have never done before playing civ is draft . Is it worth doing here ? I think we will lose moist of the former mongolia but we should be OK foir troops in our main homeland.

 

[Sir Clive]

1465 (3) - Recapture Karachi. Boat with 3 cavalry heads towards Jaipur (will be there in 3).
Build lots more rails. Kill some Egyptian units near the eastern border.

IT - We are in deep **** over in the East. Egypt capture Copan (inc Hanging Gardens).
Chichen Itza is under severe pressure. We don't have nearly enough troops here to survive.
Science down to 80% for Industrialisation due in 1 and +154 gpt (we were previously losing about
20 gpt due to the lost cities ) ToE is due in 1.

1470 (4) Move troops towards the north . Keep building rails . Shoot a few egyptian troops
but we don't manage to recapture any cities.

IT . Loads of Mongol troops move towards and recapture Yaxchilan. Mongols recapture New Tyrana.
Arabs burn Banana Marsh to the ground. We get Industrialisation. Switch to Atomic Theory.
Complete ToE in Riverbend. Get Atomic Theory . Get Electronics. Not sure what is best
to go for here - choose replaceable parts. Riverbend switches to Hoover - 48 turns !!
Get down to 31 turns by stealing most productive tles from surrounding towns
Egypt finishes Shakespeares.

1475 (5) Wake all the units asleep in Smolensk so that we can take on the Arabs. Elite Knight
wins against Arab invaders and producers a leader !! Will wait for advice on how to use it .

Summary - didn't make too much progress - my crap warfaring skills to blame.
However IMHO we didn't really have enough strength over in the Mongol territory and
it was bad luck the Egyptians declaring when they did . Anyway , we are still alive

My big mistake was not checking out our units that were fortified on both the borders
until it was too late. Should have woken up the big stacks before I did
(especially the one in Smolensk).

We do still have a reasonable tech lead and I have just about managed to hold
onto the choke point between the Egyptians and the Mongols although I am not sure
for how much longer

Should be able to play the next 5 turns tomorrow - it is now 00-20 so I am off to bed !

 

[Bede]

I think if you check F3 you may find that Cleo has gone Fascist.

Leader advice: build an army and load it with cavalry and wipe the Arab's eye.

 

[Sir Clive]

Here's the mid turn save -

Save game

The western border

The eastern border

The northern border

 

[Sir Clive]

I think if you check F3 you may find that Cleo has gone Fascist.

Leader advice: build an army and load it with cavalry and wipe the Arab's eye.

Hi Bede -

According to F3

Egypt + Arabia - Democracy
Maya + Babs - Republic
Mongolians - Monarchy

Why did you think Cleo had gone Fascist ? I never tend to take too much notice what gov my oppponents are in (yet another reason why I normally fail to win at this level I guess )

I agree with the leader building an army - that's all I ever usually use
my leaders for and we need some more military !!

 

[Bede]

@SirC,

She was heading that way what with her war weariness. What's really interesting is that by declarng war she cost herself some lux deals. Look for flames and anarchy in Egypt soon.

As a sidenote: I have been known to gift a government to a nation in depsotism when I am ready to invade. The AI will switch and if they are not religious there are the critical few early war turns when they are unable to mount a counter attack and it takes them a while to recover after the government change. Sort of like the Germans giving Lenin a train ticket.

 

[Sir Clive]

Note - chokepoint charlie got broken

I need to get this adequately fortified ASAP.

We never had quite enough troops in the Mongol area to make it safe unfortunately. Hanging on to the towns we have will be more difficult now since Egypt declared war . However we still have a couple of armies so it is not impossible. I would like to make recapture of the second tile on the choke a priroty however as we are under attack from both north and south it may be difficult !