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Coastal Cities

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ziad, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. Architect

    Architect Prince

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    I think the fishing boat interaction you point out is weird and something I didn't think of. The choice right now is to improve a resource or harvest it. If this change makes a choice to not harvest it and not improve it then that's a third choice. Feels more like complexity (bad), or unintended consequences (where did my production go?) than depth but I don't think that's enough to kill the whole design.

    At the end of the day building a shipyard gives instant production to a coastal city now without strong adjacency, builders, Reyna, or Liang. That's a good thing. For an island city its going to be amazing to kick start that city's production.
     
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  2. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Well, I’ve gone from thinking this is the worst idea to being just a terrible idea...

    I think the design would be stronger if Fishing Boats etc. didn’t also give a hammer, so you really were choosing between hammers and gold (although, why would improved sea resources give food and gold ... but unimproved give production ... it all seems quite random).

    “not improving” is a maybe interesting third option generally. I’m on the fence about it though, because it seems to rarely click in Civ VI. Indeed, FXS has also slightly abandoned the idea by creating an improvement for Jungles.

    I don’t know. The changes to Coastals seem to suffer the same problems as the changes to Production in the last patch. Overall, awesome and generally thoughtful changes, but in a few places feel a bit too over engineered / gamey and maybe lose a bit of character the game had.

    I’m still pretty positive though. That buff to the Veterancy card is going to be so, so much fun. The shipyard thing won’t be actually noticeable most games (given Colonialism and Indiatrialisation come so close together), and maybe it turns out not to be the worst idea every anyway ...
     
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  3. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    Again, I asked Borderline if he could clarify this and he confirmed it, Mausoleum is basically "Sea Petra" with this patch.
     
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  4. Caprikel

    Caprikel Warlord

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    I see the shipyard production to unimproved tiles to be a choice between whether you want to put a fishery there or not.
    For sea resources you're going to want to improve those regardless, so there's not any choice there.
    Also it's a straight up buff to reefs since the ones without a resource on them weren't improvable anyway.
     
  5. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    So. Enough about Shipyards, I guess.

    September Patch might really change how Coastal Cities work.

    Coastals were originally "low pop" Cities. I suspect that was meant to be balanced by having double trade routes, better passive adjacencies (Harbours get Gold Adjacency more easily than CHs, and Shipyard turns that into passive hammers), and being gold focused (which means you can aggregate the yields of multiple small Coastals).

    Now pure Coastals basically the same Housing as Land Cities via Lighthouse and Fisheries, and in fact higher Housing for River Coastal Cities.

    The only "low housing" Cities you're going to have now are maybe Tundra and Desert Cities (only because less farms, and also just less food generally).

    Is that a good change? Well... in isolation, I'm not sure I much care. But at the same time, overall, I don't like how some aspects of the game are getting a bit flattened out or "samey". I mean, at this point, what is the actual difference between a Coastal City and a Land City? I guess Coastals are slightly more focused on Gold and Land Cities are slightly more focused on Production and Science? Even then, you'll be able to get fairly solid production from Coastal Cities and your Campuaes will be at least+3.

    I dunno. I don't think FXS could do much to buff Coastal Cities other than more housing and more hammers. And, frankly, maybe FXS have just decided to invert the whole meta and just make Coastals the more dominant City type? That would actually reflect reality more and drive more of a naval game as Civs start steering to having Coastal Cities more.

    It's going to be rare you don't just build a Coastal City if your City is going to have a Harbour - the additional gold (later production) Adjacency is too attractive, plus the option for additional housing.

    There is also just a tonne more housing and food in the game generally now: aqueducts and dams (housing), disasters (food / fertility). FXS haven't really "buffed" tall, so much as they've just made your Cities grow tall whether you want them too or not... (sort of).
     
  6. King Phaedron

    King Phaedron Chieftain

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    Really? I thought when Gathering Storm finally popped up online, It would be a good time to start playing Civilization 6, but apparantly the game still isn't finished. Now I gotta download a freakin patch, what is this world of warcraft? I feel like all this could've been resolved if they weren't too cheap to hire beta testers.

    Oh well. How would I go about applying a patch anyway? Just down, copy, and put it in a directory, or does this require some kind of Steam bs? I don't want to go through downloading and reinstalling another version.

    What happens if you multiplayer, and some people have the patch and others don't? Do the people who don't have the patch just not get the benefits? I was gonna do more multiplayer in Civ 5, but when I got really good at the game, everyone is playing Civ 6 now, and I can see for the most part it's a lot better.

    -

    See, the whole point of Civ 6 was going back to original rules, like actual governments, city specific happiness, natural disasters, and city flipping all of which happened in Civilization 1 and 2 back on the SNES.

    Rather then fix the crappy AI, who in every version of Civ tends to settle 1 space away from the coast, instead they just made coastal cities worthless. Rather then fix the crappy AI, they find ways to nerf the player. In all previous civ games, you either embrace the coast completely, or ignore it completely. Without a lighthouse you really don't want to get stuck with a bunch of water tiles.

    Same with settling cities too close to each other. To me it's a major gripe if I have to share more then 1-3 tiles with another city, or get stuck with too many mountains, etc. AI does not care at all about their third ring. AI build cities with the assumption they will be captured by the player, therefore the cities themselves tend to suck. But I mean now you have wonders that benefit all towns within 6 tiles, so you're encouraged to build them close together, plus districts and wonders taking up spaces, and you're left with cities that won't have a lot to work, and stop growing.

    It's simple math. If I have one city that will keep growing, I can keep building wonders or whatever, or I can build a settler and have more cities that keep growing. More is usually better. Numbers of citizens does still increase science right? Or is there even any reason to have a high population other then getting your cities a decent level of production? But if you make the cities to where they can't grow anymore, then you limit the advantage of making that city. You wind up having to make more cities, because you can't go tall most of the time.

    Does anything you do really matter anymore? Playing my first game on Prince as Sumeria. I'm ahead on Science, but all the AI are actually doing better on population, great people, civics. When am I going to pull ahead? If I'm not going be able to "Out Civ" them, then why be peaceful and progress through the game? Ok, if you're better then me, and leaving me in the dust, then much like immortal and deity games, there is no other pursuit worthwhile then destroying you. And after I've crippled everyone, then we can play peacefully. Never challenge the emperor of the world :) lol

    -

    The game is fine right now, if you're not doing Navy. There really isn't much incentive to do so, I mean the patch will help the odd Coastal City here and there, but there are no longer any sea trade routes to protect, or an abundance of cities on the coast, to where having a Navy would actually be worth it. I have one city on the coast, so I could make one galley to explore with.

    I mean JeZeus Khrist... You don't even get culture from killing Barbarians anymore, is there no more Honor opener anywhere in the game? There isn't even any point in building ships to hunt down Barbarians, outside of helping a land unit clear an outpost. In every game of CIV 5 I every played, I have 3 to 10 times as much culture as the AI at any given time, esp for all the AI who start with honor and piety. EVERY Civ in CIV 5, UNDER ANY CONDITION, should ALWAYS sart by unlocking tradition. Even if you don't plan on getting anything else in tradition, that +3 culture opener is always better then anything else you can possibly get.

    CIV 5 is just too easy to have strong advantages and exploit the AI and the game itself, and that's what has led us to such an extreme situation in Civ 6 where they are seeking to limit every advantage the player could possibly get to bring us down to the level of the AI.

    Even with great people in Civ 5, the player should always use writers and artists for culture and golden ages instead of works, saving your writers for the world fair. Even if you are doing culture victory, there is enough tourism you get from musicians, artifacts, wonders, policies to where no writer should ever make works.

    The funny part is, the quotes you get in great works even tell you this. "MACBETH" Life ... is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." CANDIDE_OU_LOPTIMISME "Fools have a habit of believing that everything written by a famous author is admirable. For my part I read only to please myself and only what suits my taste." Gee, these great quotes really motivate me to keep making great works of writing instead of using them for culture... NOT!

    -
    you can buff the odd Coastal City here and there, but Navy play is still basically dead in this game. With Gathering Storm it becomes even more of a problem late in the game, with rising levels what happens to those coastal cities, are they destroyed completely?

    Really excessive on the whole climate change, global warming thing, btw. If you recall, there was a pollution mechanic in Civ 1 and 2, and if things got really bad, all of your land would turn into swamps and deserts. Only heavy coastal cities do good in that kind of world.

    The real reasons for Climate Change have little to nothing to do with C02 emissions, but the Sun was recently in a grand solar maximum, and is now entering a grand solar minimum. Sunspot activity is the lowest It's ever been in history. Please watch a video on youtube called "New Ice Age coming, 58 part evidence." Rolf Witzsche, and other scientists who have youtube channels dedicated to this topic.

    The other reason the Ice caps are melting is because the poles are slowly shifting. With a new north pole and south pole, old ice is going to melt, and new ice is going to form, if the new poles are over water. You can learn more about the pole shift by reading the CIA Classified (Recently declassified) book called "The Adam & Story" by Chan Thomas or look for Earth Cataclysm Cycle. You can read the CIA declassified for free online, just look it up. It's only 50 pages you can read, because the rest of the book is sanitized. So only partially declassified.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/document/cia-rdp79b00752a000300070001-8

    But I guess you can still have rising sea levels earlier in the game then the very last age... I mean we had the whole global reset of 1600-1812 with Tartaria and the Mudfloods, and hiding the Mudflood mansions, and other builings that are now mostly underground in cities like San Francisco especially back in the days when California used to be island.

    Yeah, that's right California used to be island. We have abundant evidence of old maps. Look it up, it's a fascinating rabbit hole for you to explore.



    All about Tartaria and what the real "Players" have been doing razing cities, etc.
    https://bennettleeross.com/history/...erately-radiated-and-the-citizens-eradicated/

    "History is a set of lies agreed upon." -Napoleon Bonaparte.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  7. King Phaedron

    King Phaedron Chieftain

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    Lol that was awesome. You don't see too many posts that end with a link to a CIA partially declassified book, and a picture of California back when it was an island. Sorry for getting off topic, I really just wanted to know how to apply the patch.

    Oh, and you have the Eureka system, where you find conditions like, owning 2 galleys to boost Sailing (or was it shipbuilding?) Basically a carrot on the stick to make you do things that you otherwise wouldn't do, but to be fair, most of them are decent, early game at least.

    I'm still on turn 100 or so, on an Epic speed Large 7 Seas map playing Gilgamesh, so I haven't seen too far into the game yet to really say much abut this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  8. Caprikel

    Caprikel Warlord

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    It downloads automatically, it takes no effort on your part. Also the latest patch isn't out yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  9. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    " - Reduce the likelihood of most damage effects from Hurricanes by a third."

    Well, that's something at least.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    No, it is the repair cost of districts being 25% rather than 100% that resolves it more, but the hurricane was too OP compared to a blizzard
     
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