Coastal City Commerce

[KinesongPayaso]

How many here favor building Coastal Cities?

for me, I tend to build Coastal cities first, then once they are settled in, thats when I'll just build additional "inner" cities to capture the other resources

I like them, as I can just build a Lighthouse(+1F) and the Colossus(+1C)
building lighthouse seems a very easy way to assure constant growth...then, having sea resources (work boat)increases that even more(6 food total)

being financial and having the collosus, assures that I get 4 coins on those tiles

1) what are some disadvantages to this, as opposed to building "in-land"?
aside from often ignored naval protection, and lack of resources in the seas


2) just a question though, why are my outer water tiles, the non COASTAL water tiles only have 3 coins? while my coastal tiles have 4 coins

3)are there any way to enhance this playstyle? aside from playing a Financial leader, and building a lighthouse and a collosus?
how can I better incorporate other civics or techs or buildings to these? i know GLighthouse produces +2 trade routes, so maybe I can go on that route

 

[cabert]

How many here favor building Coastal Cities?

Only if there is seafood. I favour production cities first to fuel an early rush.

for me, I tend to build Coastal cities first, then once they are settled in, thats when I'll just build additional "inner" cities to capture the other resources

strange but why not, if you research the techs that make them good.

I like them, as I can just build a Lighthouse(+1F) and the Colossus(+1C)
building lighthouse seems a very easy way to assure constant growth...then, having sea resources (work boat)increases that even more(6 food total)

Don't forget the harbor for health and better trade routes.

being financial and having the collosus, assures that I get 4 coins on those tiles

lucky you, but colossus is obsoleted by astronomy, so it's not as good as a cottage which gets stronger (maturing) and stronger(free speech, printed press, universal suffrage)

1) what are some disadvantages to this, as opposed to building "in-land"?
aside from often ignored naval protection, and lack of resources in the seas

less production capacity is a big hit.
+sea tiles are inferior to cottages, as I said above

2) just a question though, why are my outer water tiles, the non COASTAL water tiles only have 3 coins? while my coastal tiles have 4 coins

because that's the way it is

3)are there any way to enhance this playstyle? aside from playing a Financial leader, and building a lighthouse and a collosus?

Yep, choose carthage and build cothons + great lighthouse. And don't forget to open borders with other civs.

how can I better incorporate other civics or techs or buildings to these? i know GLighthouse produces +2 trade routes, so maybe I can go on that route

A much needed improvement is to focus on getting a production city = good food + hills. THis city won't work water tiles except seafood, so if you don't find a good production spot on the coast, go inland.

The harbor, the great lighthouse, the boats for exploration and defense are the other ways to use coastal cities.
Also, with sailing you don't need roads to connect your cities.

 

[Bagpuss]

I like them, as I can just build a Lighthouse(+1F) and the Colossus(+1C)
building lighthouse seems a very easy way to assure constant growth...then, having sea resources (work boat)increases that even more(6 food total)

Hmmm....But even with the lightouse you only get a max of 2F out of each ocean tile that (correct me if I'm wrong) can't be improved on further. So the lighthouse doesn't really help with growth it just means that the commerce output from that tile is self-sustaining. You only really get decent growth with some sea resources (as Cabert implies). Without those or any fresh water you're going to be struggling for growth, as I've found out in my recent Archipelago efforts.

Going back to Continents, and having learned from my Arch experiences I'd much rather settle the coast for my 3rd/4th city when I've got decent production elsewhere. Together with Snaaty's observations on tactics for the early land-grab I think it makes even more sense to not go for an early coastal city.

 

[KinesongPayaso]

Sorry for not clarifying, but I use these coastal cities VERY early on, as military producers

the reason I use coastal cities, is that more often than not, i get stranded on a piece of land that has lots of deserts, plains, tundras etc.. that dont provide enough food, or dont provide food at all ... having a sea resource and a guaranteed 2 food, assures that I can work the other half of the cross, which are mostly mines.. if they aren't, i build workshops

so what I do is, get sailing, rush the oracle, to get metal casting or machinery, then build the colossus and lighthouse
then build chukonus

chukonus are just a bonus, since im using China for the Industrious trait and financial trait
the 2x forge speed is also just a bonus. the primary reason I got Qin Shi Huang, is that he is Industrial and Financial

I love financial, and getting industrial helps me 'specialize' or enhance certain things. GP definitely helps a lot...



CABERT: why do you imply that building inland gives more production?

in a game, I have a city of 7 population(LOL!) and 34 base production + 25% from forge = 42.5
and this is my crappiest city

on the flipside, i could disable those mines and workshops, and just work on the water tiles, giving me a 52 base commerce. still a population 7 city


*when I warmonger with this, i just build 5 or so catapults. the rest are just chukonus. catapult to bombard, then once city DEF are 0, I move them to the next city to bombard, while the chukonus try to take over the bombarded city

i play civIV vanilla

 

[cabert]

CABERT: why do you imply that building inland gives more production?

because water tiles give 0 hammers.

in a game, I have a city of 7 population(LOL!) and 34 base production + 25% from forge = 42.5
and this is my crappiest city

Yep, but not from working water tiles .
edit : I didn't read the details before, but what you say here seems wrong unless you let those little guys starve.
1 hammer (or 2 on plains hill) from city center,
4 hammers per plains hill worked
gives 29 base hammers.
With some help (iron, copper), you can bring this to 34 base hammers, but that would be without working any food tile

on the flipside, i could disable those mines and workshops, and just work on the water tiles, giving me a 52 base commerce. still a population 7 city

yep, but no hammers

It's easy to find a somehow good early production city : 1 or 2 food resources, hills, et voila. But if you want this production city to be coastal, you need some luck : the sea tiles should be seafood to feed the miners.

 

[Bagpuss]

in a game, I have a city of 7 population(LOL!) and 34 base production + 25% from forge = 42.5
and this is my crappiest city

Yikes! Any chance you could post some screenies? I'm not doubting you, I just want to see how you're doing it!

 

[Zionel]

The first cities I build are rarely production cities, unless i'm going for domination or conquest. I found commerce cities and spam cottages as early as possible, so that i can grow the economy to expand as fast or faster than the AI. Sure, costal cities will give you more commerce right away, but they don't grow as fast, and they need very good resources to become commerce powerhouses later in the game. So, unless there are some coastal resources i need to claim, I usually build my coastal cities to "fill in" the land quite late in the game.

 

[KinesongPayaso]

Yikes! Any chance you could post some screenies? I'm not doubting you, I just want to see how you're doing it!

err.. its pretty easy?

hills/plains/grassland
then copper, marble etc
workshops+guilds+chemistry
+engineer, priest(i built the angkor watt, just because i could.. i was playing around and got traded philosophy.. + 3 religions )

no saves though


i think you were thinking that i was still referring to the "very early stages", since guilds can't be gotten then (especially chemistry)

because water tiles give 0 hammers.

ah. just that?

Yep, but not from working water tiles .
edit : I didn't read the details before, but what you say here seems wrong unless you let those little guys starve.
1 hammer (or 2 on plains hill) from city center,
4 hammers per plains hill worked
gives 29 base hammers.
With some help (iron, copper), you can bring this to 34 base hammers, but that would be without working any food tile

yes, i sometimes let them starve if I need the military ASAP... but I only mentioned that, to show the extremes. much better than whipping, eh?
once I dont need to produce heavy military, i let it grow back in anyway

yep, but no hammers

It's easy to find a somehow good early production city : 1 or 2 food resources, hills, et voila. But if you want this production city to be coastal, you need some luck : the sea tiles should be seafood to feed the miners.

im experimenting now.. im trying this method of playing... when Im about to go to war, maximize production. if not, then growth, science, GP etc

using "specialized" territories can get boring sometimes

after this, im thinking of playing with spiritual leaders. religion civic switching

 

[KinesongPayaso]

yes, zionel

this is exactly why im playing coastal cities, lighthouse + colossus

because I want commerce EARLY and FAST so that it will be faster to tech and rush techs, then just trade the other techs that I may need, which are far from the branch of techs im aiming for

deep teching for guilds and chemistry will surely mean you're gonna miss a lot of techs


im not aiming for the "best strat" or most balanced game play. im just going for a pretty interesting approach of it...

thats why I was asking in the first post "how many favor coastals" since i know most would rather choose inland with a nice big river inside it

 

[cabert]

ah. just that?

Yes.
among the 20 tiles you can work, it's obvious that the water tiles don't help production

yes, i sometimes let them starve if I need the military ASAP... but I only mentioned that, to show the extremes.

not really, you said it was for your crappiest city
You never mentionned letting your people die, nor did you mention that it was not sustainable.

much better than whipping, eh?

no.
If you start starving your people, you lose pop just the same as slavery, but you build the slow way.
I like to start building oxford 3 turns after discovering education. Seems unlikely this way

once I dont need to produce heavy military, i let it grow back in anyway

I build most (70% if I'm not mistaken) of my units in my HE city. I cannot build them only part time.

im experimenting now.. im trying this method of playing... when Im about to go to war, maximize production. if not, then growth, science, GP etc

alright.
But it's not very efficient IMHO.

using "specialized" territories can get boring sometimes

but it's very efficient IMHO

after this, im thinking of playing with spiritual leaders. religion civic switching

spiritual leaders are the best allrounder IMHO. The religion switching can be a huge help diplomatically, and anarchy free civic switching makes a much smoother game.

 

[Buntaro]

First, I use them to access seafoods for the health and food.
Second, I want at least one for shipbuilding - preferably where there is seafood, but if not, c'est l'guerre. In one game I built an ironworks in a coastal city even though it wasn''t one of my top two producers because I really needed more ships.

A nice trick is to situate them so that you can use lighthouses to benefit fresh water lakes. You can't build a lighthouse if you only have freshwater coast, but I once built my second city on a coast with a 5 space lake adjacent. Once the lighthouse was in place, that was 5 spaces with 3 food and 3 commerce (I was financial) with no worker investment. Late in the game, it would be inconsequential, but early, it provided heaps of commerce that allowed me to research very quickly. It was incentive enough to build the colossus, which I usually forgo.

 

[Bradlius]

2) just a question though, why are my outer water tiles, the non COASTAL water tiles only have 3 coins? while my coastal tiles have 4 coins

I'm not sure, but I think maybe you have to research compass to get those deep-sea tiles to produce 3 coins. Makes sense, no? You have only coast-hugging galleys now.

 

[Squad23]

Coastal cities are great!

Recently switched from warmonger style in the beginning of the game to a peacefull start untill cavelery.
Reason was because i hardly couldn't catch up with the civs tech's (monarch).
So i played couple of games on a pangea map with max 6 cities all coastal.
Wonders: Oracle for metalcasting; the colossus (vey easy to build); The great lighthouse (some harder, so most of the times not build in the city where i build the oracle.

The biggest advantage is the great lighthouse because of the 2 extra traderoutes. with 6 coastelcities it will give you like 24 commerce per turn. that's big in the beginning.
Colossus is best used with a financial civ.
If you have a city on coast and with some inland lakes that's very beautifull because that give 3 food and 4 commerce.

That scenario leads to liberalism very ealy (cant recaal dates )
Games that i've played was with catherine, so with a that techlead i pick up cavalary for the brilliant cossacks and than go warmongerstyle.
With suchs a big lead you can take a whole continent with your cossacks.
And because the ai has very nice improved land and allready build courthouses you don't die on maintence.

So, coastal cities are great!

 

[TG Empire]

2) just a question though, why are my outer water tiles, the non COASTAL water tiles only have 3 coins? while my coastal tiles have 4 coins

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is true.

The coastal tiles not touching the land don't benefit from colossus.

-TG

 

[jerVL/kg]

The coastal tiles not touching the land don't benefit from colossus.

No, the Colossus adds commerce to ALL water tiles, including ocean & freshwater lakes.

I typically play Archipelago, but even with my occasional Terra/Fractal games I'll often regenerate until I get a start that's coastal AND has decent production/commerce. That way I can get a head start on the Great Lighthouse -- I find that I often lose TGL unless it's built in my capital city.

TGL I think is a much better wonder than colossus; it arrives sooner, lasts longer, and doesn't hurt as much when it goes obsolete. Sometimes building Colossus is useless, as I'm more apt to work all the land tiles long before I start working the ocean.

 

[KinesongPayaso]

I'm not sure, but I think maybe you have to research compass to get those deep-sea tiles to produce 3 coins. Makes sense, no? You have only coast-hugging galleys now.

doesnt compass just give your naval units +1 tile line of sight?


I build the great lighthouse too. I just didnt mention it directly, as I didnt know how to incorporate traderoutes to this. as I dont know much about it
i think mercantilism gives +2 traderoutes? or its the other one, that has no foreign traderoutes

how can I better incorporate other civics or techs or buildings to these? i know GLighthouse produces +2 trade routes, so maybe I can go on that route

as I'm more apt to work all the land tiles long before I start working the ocean.

i just work the resources first, before improving the land VERY EARLY on. since my workers are busy connecting my cities and resources, and building resource improvements. I dont build a lot of workers early on, so that my city can grow quite a bit, since I build a lot of settlers early on