Code of Laws Proposal (complete replacement)

[Strider]

One comment though, since you're interested in formatting, or lack thereof -- please don't post the thing in quote tags. It makes quoting the proposal to talk about it much more difficult.

It's not that difficult to copy and paste, unlike with the indented versions, you can do that and have it turn out nicely . Anyway, the quotes are just their to seperate the proposal from the rest of the post, I have no plan in having them stick around.

Yes, but changing the cabinet in this way is an excersize of the mandate power. The Constitution says that an Initiative (citizen vote) can override mandate, so the citizens can indeed stop such a change by disapproving.

So the cabinet is allowed to change our laws? Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it. Stick with the amendment process as the only way to legislate.

Hmm, one thing we've done in the past is put the election office in charge, not put election procedures in the law. Other times we've put procedures in the law. Can you point to a point in this game that it's been a problem? Also don't overlook what the Constitution says about elections.

For one, I've never been a fan of procedures. The power to legislate should lay with the citizens, completely and utterly. Now, this is the first time (that I know of) we have had "election" procedures. We've had two huge election controversies, in matter of three months. We've broken a new record, since this is the, from my memory, we have ever had problems with elections.

I spent an entire demogame running the election office, and during that time I made sure we had proper election laws in place.

On the "legal exploits" thing...

If someone finds an "exploit" and the people decide that we don't want to make it illegal, it gets listed here. What was so hard to understand about that?

The whole purpose of the entire process to begin with.

So that if we elect someone to be a justice who is easily swayed by threats of impeachment, that person won't cave in to the threats and rule against the correct interpretation of the law. Note also that a justice can still be tried by means of a CC and if convicted might be removed from office, so they are not above the law.

Then elect someone who won't be swayed by threats of impeachment then. It's called personal responsibility, and can solve quite a few problems in this game.

 

[Strider]

Something is wrong with the amendment section, it says a majority and then says a 2/3 majority. Also don't overlook the Constitution which says no vote may require a higher percentage than an amendment to the Constitution (currently 60%). This comment applies to other sections too.

Fixed, I wasn't quite sure what it meant after I read it either.

Three days for an unannounced absense is too short. An announced absense of 7 days is also too short. We had a system in a previous DG which allowed a deputy to act if the official had not acted and there were fewer than 24 hours remaining on a deadline, how about reinstating that one.

Changed

Governors don't really belong in the legislative, as already noted by others.

It's missing a provision for governors of provinces / states. We will easily run out of players if we stick with one per city.

I'm going to use the state portion from the orginal CoL sooner or later, I just keep forgetting to modify it. Also, I know they don't really legislate anymore, but I'm not really sure where else to stick them. Give me alittle while to work it out in my head.

The current CoL is missing a maximum number of days between play sessions. It's missing other things too but I will leave that to others to point out if they actuall want those other things.

It's missing days between play sessions, days required for the turnchat instruction thread to be up, the time inwhich a leader must post their instructions, and several other things. I've noted them already, I just haven't done it yet.

Religion seems to be missing? Need someone to coordinate spread of religion both within and outside our borders, assuming we eventually get religion.

Yep, that'll be culture. I just added it in.

In the governor section there is a reference to specialization but I think it was meant to be specialists. We do need that specialization item, but it needs to be centrally coordinated. In particular, the national wonders need to be assigned, and we need cities producing different kinds of Great People in order to get GAs. For that matter, Great Wonders need to be assigned as well.

Well, I meant specialization as in the whole producing differant Great People . Wonders are put under culture.

Were Great Merchants specified anywhere?

Foreign Affairs got them.

 

[DaveShack]

It's missing days between play sessions, days required for the turnchat instruction thread to be up, the time inwhich a leader must post their instructions, and several other things. I've noted them already, I just haven't done it yet.

I'd rather you didn't. Just a play session must be played within 7 days.

You see, if we had all those other rules and if people cared about them, then there would be a CC every turnchat or the DP would be playing this like a SG instead of a DG because there would be no instructions. The fact of the matter is that most people have trouble posting their instructions more than a few minutes in advance because things like school, work, parents, significant others, and kids get in the way. We can make it hard on most people in deference to an ideal that most people don't complain about, or we can accept reality and do the best we're able to without making it a law.

Well, I meant specialization as in the whole producing differant Great People . Wonders are put under culture.

Specialization needs to be in the executive branch, not something we hope all the governors just happen to get right by accident.

 

[Strider]

I'd rather you didn't. Just a play session must be played within 7 days.

You see, if we had all those other rules and if people cared about them, then there would be a CC every turnchat or the DP would be playing this like a SG instead of a DG because there would be no instructions. The fact of the matter is that most people have trouble posting their instructions more than a few minutes in advance because things like school, work, parents, significant others, and kids get in the way. We can make it hard on most people in deference to an ideal that most people don't complain about, or we can accept reality and do the best we're able to without making it a law.

The bolded part is the trick, unless it happens quite often.. then people won't care.

 

[Strider]

I want to get this passed before the end of this term, so I think I have everything included.

Octavian, if you will make your grammer run over it now?

 

[Swissempire]

I want to get this polled before the end of this term, so I think I have everything included.

Octavian, if you will make your grammer run over it now?

You want to get this polled before the end of the term. But at the current rate were going at, i don;t think the judiciary will have time for this very important JR.

 

[Swissempire]

Read over the CoL and i really like it. The only things i can think of are adding term Limits, giving the ability to create new offices to either the president or the Citiznes Assembly and stating that the offices that control city placement and naming need to poll it first.

OTher than that i heart the simplicity.
--------------------------------
This part deals with minor details and names:

Change the first line from

The government will consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches are responsible for the management of the game.

to

The government will consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the game

I think it adds more democratic umf




I think the Generals office should something like the Department of Defence and War and the official in charge of it should be named( he/she current is not given a title/name), maybe like the Protector General, or the Warlord.

I think you should change Advisor of culture to Secretary or Minister, because imho Advisor means he just advises and has no real authority.

The official in charge of the office of foriegn affairs is not named, maybe like the Secretary of State or the Minister of Foreign Affairs, or the Prime-Ambassador.

the official in charge of the Office of Research and Development is not given a name, maybe like the Minister of Research and Development, Domestic General, or the Minister of Scientiaora.

 

[robboo]

Strider..what do you think of waiting for us to vote on this next month. With the JR in progress you would be rushing this and this is something that needs time. In adition it will put some distance between your co-president proposal and this proposal..short memories

 

[Swissempire]

I think this should be polled ASAP. That said, we should get it all ironed out, hold the regular elections, and after this gets passed(hopefully), we can hold new elections to match the new offices

 

[DaveShack]

I think this should be polled ASAP. That said, we should get it all ironed out, hold the regular elections, and after this gets passed(hopefully), we can hold new elections to match the new offices

We can't hold new elections right away, that would violate the fixed terms of office. It would have to wait until the next election cycle.

 

[Swissempire]

How would we work that out, would we have the new one(Hello, still no name) take effect May 1st, that seems like a solution

 

[DaveShack]

Something like "The election portions of this amendment take effect the beginning of the term N election cycle. The remainder take effect the first day of term N."

Or the law itself can inclue a transition clause explaining how current office holders are treated. Their offices can be renamed on the fly if necessary. It's just tons easier to do it at the beginning of a term, given that the language for a mid-term transition would be more complicated.

 

[Strider]

Something like "The election portions of this amendment take effect the beginning of the term N election cycle. The remainder take effect the first day of term N."

Or the law itself can inclue a transition clause explaining how current office holders are treated. Their offices can be renamed on the fly if necessary. It's just tons easier to do it at the beginning of a term, given that the language for a mid-term transition would be more complicated.

At the moment, the CoL is written to only come into effect the term after it's passed.

The main reason why I want to pass it before this term is over, then it'll be ready to go before this term is up.

 

[Swissempire]

Any thought given to my suggestions?

 

[Strider]

Any thought given to my suggestions?

Look back in the thread alittle... well.. screw it.

I don't see any suggestions, would you mind repeating them?

 

[Swissempire]

Read over the CoL and i really like it. The only things i can think of are adding term Limits, giving the ability to create new offices to either the president or the Citiznes Assembly and stating that the offices that control city placement and naming need to poll it first.

OTher than that i heart the simplicity.
--------------------------------
This part deals with minor details and names:

Change the first line from

The government will consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches are responsible for the management of the game.

to

The government will consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the game

I think it adds more democratic umf




I think the Generals office should something like the Department of Defence and War and the official in charge of it should be named( he/she current is not given a title/name), maybe like the Protector General, or the Warlord.

I think you should change Advisor of culture to Secretary or Minister, because imho Advisor means he just advises and has no real authority.

The official in charge of the office of foriegn affairs is not named, maybe like the Secretary of State or the Minister of Foreign Affairs, or the Prime-Ambassador.

the official in charge of the Office of Research and Development is not given a name, maybe like the Minister of Research and Development, Domestic General, or the Minister of Scientiaora.

 

[Strider]

Okay, added in Term limits and mostly everything else.

Didn't give the Office of Culture or Research a name. Be creative, we can name them as we go along. Renamed the Generals Office though.

 

[Swissempire]

Cool. I would vote yes for this

 

[Strider]

Proposed Poll for Code of Laws amendment:

Code of Laws

Element A. The Government
The government will consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the game

Element B. The Executive Branch
The Executive Branch is headed by the President, the overall Leader of the land, and shall include a group of Advisors, each of whom heads a office that is responsible for one major facet of the country. Any duties that are not given to a Leader is automatically assumed to be part of the Presidents duties, this includes management of the National Budget.

Section 1. Ministry of War
The Ministry of War is charged with management of all offensive and defensive units. They are also given the duty of tatical planning during war and the strategic planning of war. During times of both peace and war, the Ministry of War is tasked with the management of the Nations Defense.

Section 2. Office of Culture
The Advisor of culture is charged with the movement and placement of settlers. They are also charged with the formation of boundaries and the monitoring of our culture levels. The building of wonders and the control of Great Prophets and Artists are also given to the Office of Culture. Additionaly, culture is responsible for the spread of religion throughout the continent.

Section 3. Office of Foreign Affairs
Foreign Affairs is charged with the negotiation of treaties and all espionage related activities. It is also given the duty of exploration. They are also charged with the management of all trade related activities, and are given control of Great Merchants.

Section 4. Office of Research and Development
The Office of Research and Development is given control over all worker related activities. They are also charged with our nations research and the sliders. The Office is also given the duty of technological research, and controls all Great Scientists and Engineers.

Section 5. The Censors Office
The Censors Office is tasked with the duty of validating polls and elections, and determining the census. Upon election, the Censor shall lay down polling procedures for his term in office. The Censor is also responsible for the management of elections, and for polling and discussinh the naming of units and cities.

Section 6. Designated Players
The designated players are responsible for the play of the save. A designated player controls worker movement and actions during their play session. Designated players must follow the instructions and goals of a leader, if possible.

Element C. The Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch shall be made up of The House and the Governors.

Section 1. The Governors
The Governors are charged with the management and specialization of a single city. They have the power to hire specialized cities, and to create the build queue for their city.

Section 2. The House
The house is formed by the a census of the active citizenry, and is charged with the formation and passing of laws.

Element D. The Census and amending the Code of Laws
The average of the number of votes cast in each of the most recent contested elections shall constitute an active census of citizens. The highest vote total of these elections shall constitute a full census (the House). A simple majority of the house must be achieved for an amendment to pass. An amendment must pass a Judicial Review and be open for discussion for 72 hours before a poll may be posted. The poll must remain open for 48 hours.

Element E. The Election process
Elections shall decide who among the citizenry are trusted to manage the game. The President, the Advisors, Judiciary, Governors, and Designated Players are all elected. Each of these poistions, excepting the Judiciary, shall have a deputy chosen by the winning citizen. The Election process shall be made up of Nominations, Debates, and the Elections themselves. No citizen may run for the same office 3 consecutive terms.

Section 1. Nominations and Debates
Nominations shall be posted approximately 8 days before the end of the term, debates will last through the duration of the nominations. Nominations will be closed when the election polls start.

Section 2. Election Polls
Election Polls shall be posted approximately 4 days before the end of the term, and will be set to run for 3 days (72 hours). The candidate with the highest number of votes at the end of the 3 days is considered the winner. If two candidates tie, then a run-off poll, lasting 2 days (48 hours) is posted with just those two canidates. The election for designated players shall be multiple choice, and list all of the possible candidates. Any candidate that recieves over 50% of the vote is a designated player for that term.

Section 3. Judicial Terms
The Judiciary shall remain in power one week after the election of a new Judiciary. At this time, the newly elected Judiciary shall take over.

Element F. Vacant Poistions
An advisor or Justice may declare themselves to be Absent for a period of time. This period may not exceed 1 week. During this time, the deputy or pro-tem will act with all power and duties of that office, surrendering them to the official or Justice when they return or at the end of the planned absence, whichever comes first. If this period exceeds one week, then the deputy or pro-term may keep the power and duties of the office, unless they decide to give it up. Should an official fail to post in the DG forum for 3 days in a thread related to their area without prior notice, the Judiciary may declare that office Vacant.

Section 1. Judicial Absence's
If a Justice has not posted on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the remaining Justices may declare the Justice Vacant. If all three Justices fail to post on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the President may declare all Judicial offices Vacant, and immediately appoint a new Chief Justice. The remaining members of the Judiciary appoint a replacement for a vacant Justice.

Element G. Recall
Any citizen may request a recall for an elected official by posting a thread in the Citizens forum, citing the reasons for the recall. If two or more citizens support the recall, the Chief Justice must post a recall poll. The poll must run for 3 days, be private, and be set up in a Yes/No/Abstain. If 2/3 of the census votes to recall an official, then the official is removed from office, and the office becomes vacant. In the case of a Judicial recall, the President will handle the recall poll.

Element H. Referendum
A referendum is the submission of a proposed public measure or a decree to a direct popular vote, it is the second highest form of decision making. A referendum must comply with all polling procedures.

Article I. Initiative
An initiative is executive legislation created, proposed, and approved by the citizens. It is the highest form of decision making, and over-rides any other decisions, excempting a decision tasked to do so.

Proposing an Initiative
Any citizen of the democracy game can propose an initiative. An initiative must receive atleast 3 days of discussions and two days of polling. Initiatives only hold power during the term they are approved, unless otherwise stated.

Element J. Sunset Clause
A sunset clause is an emergency legislative act. It must be discussed for 48 hours, and receive 24 hours of polling. A simple majority of the house is required to pass the clause. A sunset clause will automatically be removed at the end of the term it was passed in, or during a other pre-determined time. At this time changes made by the sunset clause will revert back to it's original state.

Element K. Effect
This Code of Laws will only come into effect the term after it's approval. This law will be removed after the Code of Laws comes into effect.

 

[Swissempire]

And the JR already has 1 yea vote!!!