Code of Laws Proposal (complete replacement)

Strider,

Apologies for taking so long before doing a more thorough read of your proposal. Hope these points will be helpful.

One thing I don't think you've explained very clearly is that power resides with the Citizenry and the officials only have what power is given to them by the people. I know you have clauses in there that say this to an extent, but I know that I didn't fully realise this for a long time after I joined the game and I had made an effort to read the constitution and CoL. It might sound as if it would be a bit cheesy and over the top to spell it out even more, but ithink it is very important. Also, coming from a country that doesn't have a neat constitution in RL I know it can be surprisingly easy to forget these things.

B2. Office of Culture: I don't think they should be limited to religion only on our own continent.

B4. Office of Research and Development: I think control of sliders should be given to the President. It affects income and culture as well as research.

B5. The Censors Office: bit pedantic, but would 'The Census Office' or 'Office of the Censor' sound better? I prefer the second.

B6. Designated Players. Please emphasise the need to stop playing if encountering a situation that must have citizen input or where an official has requested it. Also we should point out that officials should not post instructions to the effect that 'they can be amended at the turnchat'. In general I think we should ask the DP to stop when in doubt, but I'm not sure how to phrase this so it doesn't become an impossible burden.

C1. Governors. I think the previous CoL mentioned something about states. While I think that was overblown and long-winded I think we might want to consider a simpler form here. Later in the game if we have a lot of cities, we may have more cities than govenors.

D. Amending CoL. I know we can't require a stricter set of rules than the Constitution, but I think a simple majority with a 48 hour poll is not strict enough. Quite a few people are unavailable some Sat/Sun and with timezones etc you could easily exclude them with a well timed poll.

E. Pedantic: how about "No citizen may run for the same office for than 2 consecutive terms"?

E 1and 2. I don't like the term 'approximately'. Open to all kinds of abuse (and ridiculous legal complaints after the event). How about 'at least 7 days' and 'at least 3 days'?

J. I'm personally not familiar with the term 'sunset clause'. I'm sure I must know what it is, but can you explain?

Generally very pedantic: I think there needs to be a review of minor typos before this is proposed more widely.

However, thanks for drafting this. I think it is a definite improvement on what we have now.
 
I've already posted the proposed poll for this, so I'd rather not make changes and have to start completely over.

Once/if it passes though, I'll organize an amendment(s) with the proposed changes. Right now I just want to get this out the door before the new turn comes around.
 
Strider said:
I've already posted the proposed poll for this, so I'd rather not make changes and have to start completely over.

Once/if it passes though, I'll organize an amendment(s) with the proposed changes. Right now I just want to get this out the door before the new turn comes around.


Where is the poll?
 
robboo said:
Where is the poll?

Proposed poll and it's above in this thread. After the proposed poll I hand it over to the Judiciary, who then poll the amendment poll.
 
Strider I am still confused..how can this thread be a poll.

I think the changes that Oldbus mentioned need to be incorportated. All this waiting for amendments is not good. We either start with a working government and "clean" CoL with all corrections in place or that leads to problems when things dont get fixed.

Oh and since I dont see a place to vote in the"proposed" poll I vote NO. Due to typos and it still loks like a work in progress.
 
robboo said:
Strider I am still confused..how can this thread be a poll.

It's not a poll. The organizer of the amendment posts a "mock poll" or "proposed poll" as the mechanism of telling interested parties that this is considered the final version of the proposed amendment, barring substantial citizen requests. Once a 24 hour period has passed with no "significant" changes proposed and unresolved (one way or the other) to the final version, the proposal goes to the Judiciary.

The definition of "significant" is deliberately left open. I suppose the Judiciary, as part of the Judicial Review, would decide if the proper procedure was followed. There have indeed been past instances of rejected JR requests because the form of the proposal was incorrect, and I would expect a major disagreement over what is significant and what is not to be handled during the JR.

I suggest, since there is no way this can be approved before the upcoming election cycle (which may actually have started if the Censor is online), that if there are comments, go ahead and incorporate them. :)

I'm not in a good place to give it a thorough review at the moment -- but will do so if I get a chance.
 
Election cycles starts in 2 hours and 4o minute approximately:)
 
small grammatical change
...each of whom heads a office that is responsible...
should be "an office". I'm sure there are more errors like this, but I'm not that good with it myself.

The Office of Foreign Affairs should have control of all spies, but that is something that can be changed later since we probably have a little time before we have to argue over that.

I think it should eplicitly state that there is an abstain option in the voting of officers. Also there is no clause that says you can't run for more than one office, or hold more than one office.

There is no reason to rush this process. It would need to pass by tomorow to take effect for the next term. (8 days to start nominations) I vote no on the current proposal. I fully expect this to be ready for May.
 
Strider,

Sorry for not getting a chance to look through this sooner - I've been a bit busy.

In no particular order ..

Element K - This isn't needed. You can put this text in the explantion of the poll, and it's just as valid. No reason to put something in there that isn't needed to be there. The wording is good though.

Element B - I would include a section for the President. Keep the format clear and consistent.

B. 3 - OFA controls exploration, but how? Does this mean Scouts only? MOW controls all offensive/defensive troops. Need some detail here.

B.4 - So Governor's have no control over the improvement of the land their city uses?

B.5 - typo. "discussinh" => "discussing"

B.ZZZ - I think you need more detail on DP's. I would like to see a section stating that they must follow instructions given to them by leaders through an instruction thread. Grabbing much of what's in DGVII would be nice to see.

Element C

C.1 - A single city? Surely not. We didn't even elect all the positions we have now! This need to be provinces/states/city group.

C.1 - See B.4 comment above ...

C.2 - Replace "active citzenry" with "citizenry" - I can see potential issues with this otherwise (what makes them active?)

General - I liked the idea of the Governor's Council from the Tri - maybe bring that over some?

Element E

E.2 - What if more than 2 candidates tie? Make this section generic, and include that runoffs may continue as needed.

Element F

General - I think your timeframes are too short. I'd suggest for the unexpected abscence that you go with 2 turn chats w/o posting as a timeframe.

General - You're completely missing a section on what to do WITH a vacant office! Who fills it?

Element G

General - I'm leery about recall of Justices, but doubt it would be abused. I'd prefer to see them removed only for cause through CC.

Element H

I think you need to make clear that Referndum's come from officials acting within the boundaries of their office

Article I

Rename to Element, or rename the rest to Article. "excempting a decision tasked to do so" => "excempting an initiative tasked to do so" Constitution specifically limits this, COL needs to follow that.

Element J

I'm actually confused - what is the need for this? Can this not be done with an initiative?


Misc. comments:

No Information Act? I'm quite surprised ...

No core polling requirements? (Polls must be posted in a clear and neutral format, and include how they will be interpreted, etc.)


In general, I think this is a good start, but it's missing a fair amount. It looks a bit rushed to try to get it in before a deadline, and that's going to cause problems. You haven't been happy when things got rushed in the past, and the chaos that resulted, why rush here?

-- Ravensfire
 
I'm going to make the recommend changes by Ravensfire and George soon. It's just late and I think I'll end up screwing it up if I do it now.

Anyone else have any comments?
 
Write up the new one then lets look at it again. Something might pop out as redundent, contradictory or missing...
 
Rather than recreate our laws it would be best to work on the ones we have. Up to now many problems have been found and solutions have/are being done to fix them. If instead the old CoL is thrown out and this one replaces it we will just have to go through and fix all the errors and mistakes again. A new CoL won't make the problems go away, instead it'll just create new ones.

I strongly suggest we instead spend our time on fixing the one we have.
 
Methos said:
Rather than recreate our laws it would be best to work on the ones we have. Up to now many problems have been found and solutions have/are being done to fix them. If instead the old CoL is thrown out and this one replaces it we will just have to go through and fix all the errors and mistakes again. A new CoL won't make the problems go away, instead it'll just create new ones.

I strongly suggest we instead spend our time on fixing the one we have.

I had originally thought that, but now i see a chance for a less complicated CoL. So what if we have to work things out again. This streamlined CoL offers the chance for more fun, IMHO.
 
GeorgeOP said:
Methos:
Please look at this thread. This will help explain why some people want to dump the CoL. It's on the second page so I assume you haven't seen it yet.

Yeah, the orginally Code of Laws in place now didn't really receive the votes to actually be put into place.

Also, working on making the changes now. Give me about half an hour.
 
Code of Laws

Element A. The Government
The government will consist of the Executive Branch, Legislative Branch and Judicial Branch. These branches and the Citizenry as a whole are responsible for the management of the game

Element B. The Executive Branch
The Executive Branch is headed by the President, the overall Leader of the land, and shall include a group of Advisors, each of whom heads an office that is responsible for one major facet of the country. Any duties that are not given to a Leader is automatically assumed to be part of the Presidents duties, this includes management of the National Budget and the slider.

Section 1. Ministry of War
The Ministry of War is charged with management of all offensive and defensive units. They are also given the duty of tatical planning during war and the strategic planning of war. During times of both peace and war, the Ministry of War is tasked with the management of the Nations Defense.

Section 2. Office of Culture
The Advisor of culture is charged with the movement and placement of settlers. They are also charged with the formation of boundaries and the monitoring of our culture levels. The building of wonders and the control of Great Prophets and Artists are also given to the Office of Culture. Additionaly, culture is responsible for the spread of religion throughout the world.

Section 3. Office of Foreign Affairs
Foreign Affairs is charged with the negotiation of treaties and all espionage related activities. It is also given the duty of exploration by the control of scouts and any naval units given to them by the Ministry of War. They are also charged with the management of all trade related activities, and are given control of Great Merchants.

Section 4. Office of Research and Development
The Office of Research and Development is given control over all worker related activities. The Office is also given the duty of technological research, and controls all Great Scientists and Engineers.

Section 5. The Office of the Censor
The Censors Office is tasked with the duty of validating polls and elections, and determining the census. Upon election, the Censor shall lay down polling procedures for his term in office. The Censor is also responsible for the management of elections, and for polling and discussing the naming of units and cities.

Section 6. Designated Players
The designated players are responsible for the play of the save. A designated player controls worker movement and actions during their play session. Designated players must follow the instructions and goals of a leader, if possible.

Section 7. The Governors
The Governors are charged with the management and specialization of a single city or state. They have the power to hire specialized citizens, and to create the build queue for their city or state.

Element C. The Legislative Branch
The Legislative Branch shall be made up of The House and the Governors.

Section 1. The House
The house is formed by the a census of the citizenry, and is charged with the formation and passing of laws.

Section 2. The Governors Council
The Governors Council is responsible for the creation of states and is made up of all Governors. A "state" is a collection of cities that a governor controls. Creating a state requires a majority of both the governors council and the house.

Element D. The Census and amending the Code of Laws
The average of the number of votes cast in each of the most recent contested elections shall constitute an active census of citizens. The highest vote total of these elections shall constitute a full census (the House). A simple majority of the house must be achieved for an amendment to pass. An amendment must pass a Judicial Review and be open for discussion for 72 hours before a poll may be posted. The poll must remain open for 48 hours.

Element E. The Election process
Elections shall decide who among the citizenry are trusted to manage the game. The President, the Advisors, Judiciary, Governors, and Designated Players are all elected. Each of these poistions, excepting the Judiciary, shall have a deputy chosen by the winning citizen. The Election process shall be made up of Nominations, Debates, and the Elections themselves. No citizen may hold the same office for 2 consecutive terms.

Section 1. Nominations and Debates
Nominations shall be posted atleast 8 days before the end of the term, debates will last through the duration of the nominations. Nominations will be closed when the election polls start.

Section 2. Election Polls
Election Polls shall be posted atleast 4 days before the end of the term, and will be set to run for 3 days (72 hours). The candidate with the highest number of votes at the end of the 3 days is considered the winner. If two candidates tie, then a run-off poll, lasting 2 days (48 hours) is posted with just those two canidates which will continue as needed. The election for designated players shall be multiple choice, and list all of the possible candidates. Any candidate that recieves over 50% of the vote is a designated player for that term.

Section 3. Judicial Terms
The Judiciary shall remain in power one week after the election of a new Judiciary. At this time, the newly elected Judiciary shall take over.

Element F. Vacant Poistions
An advisor or Justice may declare themselves to be Absent for a period of time. This period may not exceed 2 turnchats. During this time, the deputy or pro-tem will act with all power and duties of that office, surrendering them to the official or Justice when they return or at the end of the planned absence, whichever comes first. If this period exceeds one week, then the deputy or pro-term may keep the power and duties of the office, unless they decide to give it up. Should an official fail to post in the DG forum for 3 days in a thread related to their area without prior notice, the Judiciary may declare that office Vacant.

Section 1. Judicial Absence's
If a Justice has not posted on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the remaining Justices may declare the Justice Vacant. If all three Justices fail to post on any active Judicial matter for seven days, the President may declare all Judicial offices Vacant, and immediately appoint a new Chief Justice. The remaining members of the Judiciary appoint a replacement for a vacant Justice.

Filling Vacant Offices:
The President will appoint a citizen to any vacant office. The appointment is subject to a conformation poll, set to run for 3 days. If the Presidential seat is vacant then the Advisor of Foreign Affairs appoints a President.

Element G. Recall
Any citizen may request a recall for an elected official by posting a thread in the Citizens forum, citing the reasons for the recall. If two or more citizens support the recall, the Chief Justice must post a recall poll. The poll must run for 3 days, be private, and be set up in a Yes/No/Abstain. If 2/3 of the census votes to recall an official, then the official is removed from office, and the office becomes vacant. In the case of a Judicial recall, the President will handle the recall poll.

Element H. Referendum
A referendum is the submission of a proposed public measure or a decree to a direct popular vote, it is the second highest form of decision making. A referendum must comply with all polling procedures. Referendums are a direct result of an elected official carrying out their duties.

Element I. Initiative
An initiative is executive legislation created, proposed, and approved by the citizens. It is the highest form of decision making, and over-rides any other decisions, excempting a decision tasked to do so.

Proposing an Initiative
Any citizen of the democracy game can propose an initiative. An initiative must receive atleast 3 days of discussions and two days of polling. Initiatives only hold power during the term they are approved, unless otherwise stated.

Element J. Sunset Clause
A sunset clause is an emergency legislative act. It must be discussed for 48 hours, and receive 24 hours of polling. A simple majority of the house is required to pass the clause. A sunset clause will automatically be removed at the end of the term it was passed in, or during a other pre-determined time. At this time changes made by the sunset clause will revert back to it's original state.

Element K. Will of the People
The Will of the People is the supreme law of the land and is determined by Initiatives, Referendums, Mandate, Recall, Opinion Polls, and Constituency.

--------------

Okay, I made as many changes as I could. I forgot to make a list and mark off as I went... so I know I left acouple of things out. Sorry about that.

Today is not a good day for me, woke up this morning sick and throwing up. I need my wit with me for the elections also. :( I'm stuck between sticking around and actually giving myself a chance at the election, or going to sleep and lose it.
 
Element E. The Election process
No citizen may run for the same office 2 consecutive terms.
Is this what you meant, no one can hold the same office twice in a row? Or did you want "more than 2 consecutive terms." Also, there is nothing in there about running for more than one office at the same time, nor is there anything about holding more than one office.
 
Section 6. Designated Players
The designated players are responsible for the play of the save. A designated player controls worker movement and actions during their play session. Designated players must follow the instructions and goals of a leader, if possible.

I’m not for sure I like the underlined statement. The ‘if possible’ is way too vague, and should probably be either removed or made more specific.

Element C Section 1 The House said:
The house is formed by the a census of the citizenry

A minor clerical error that I thought I’d mention.

I guess first I must look and see exactly what is meant by a ‘flexible’ CoL.
 
Methos said:
I guess first I must look and see exactly what is meant by a ‘flexible’ CoL.

Methos,

A "flexible" CoL is designed to leave much more open to interpretation by only including the basics of the game in our ruleset. Some feel that this will increase the "fun" element by not holding our officials to as many restrictions.

However, we must take great care that we do not make things too vague, as it would iontroduce new loopholes that could be exposed as well.

I would rather see us gradually enhance our existing ruleset using several amendments, rather than a full replacement. It will be too daunting a task for our citizens to thoroughly compare both rulesets in their entirety, making it preferable to address each issue with the current Triumvirate ruleset separately.

If we stay this course, my major concern is that this amendment may be voted down simply because it is far too large to please everyone on the first run. It may receive 10 No votes for ten different reasons. If we minimize our scope to separate amendments, then we will also minimize our odds of failure.
 
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