Code of Laws Tech path vs Archery/Iron/Myst

[DaveShack]

Researching a little along each path is the road to disaster. I almost never win games that don't involve going deep on one tech path, either directly to CoL, Theology, or IW.

We lost DG1 with a tech path exactly like the one you're trying to play here. We must have a plan, not an all you can eat buffet.

 

[AluminumKnight]

I just want to point out that there is a reason that many of us didn't want to play on a high difficulty....

 

[DaveShack]

My above statement is based on my experience at noble. This game is 2-3 levels above my comfort zone.

Wait, that means it may be even worse than what I'm used to...

 

[AluminumKnight]

You really lose on Noble if you don't beeline one of those 3 techs??

 

[DaveShack]

Maybe not every time, but more often than not. However it's a pretty small sample compared to the games I do follow one of the paths.

Can't say if it's because the times I can't follow one of these paths are starts that would have been a lost cause anyway...

And forgot to mention the beeline to optics when on an island, but that one doesn't matter here.

I get confucianism, the oracle, and liberalism about 70% of the time. If I remember to do them, I get economics and physics first too. It's like getting philosophy 1st in C3C. I have also managed to found 6 of 7 religions several times. Now if I could just learn the proper timing of warfare, and stop getting behind on the power graph...

 

[dutchfire]

Code of Laws is the single most overrated tech in the early game, IMO. I'd rather have say Currency, Iron Working or Alphabet. Mysticism is always a good tech to get before or just after you settle your second city. I don't really like archery, since it's not really needed as we can build chariots.

 

[dutchfire]

Maybe not every time, but more often than not. However it's a pretty small sample compared to the games I do follow one of the paths.

Can't say if it's because the times I can't follow one of these paths are starts that would have been a lost cause anyway...

And forgot to mention the beeline to optics when on an island, but that one doesn't matter here.

You're beelining the wrong techs, currency's free traderoute does more for you economy than a courthouse, and it doesn't cost a boatload of hammers.

 

[blastoidstalker]

There are many ways to win. One is early war, which seems to be the direction we are going, which I agree with. We can gain an advantage by taking another civs improved capital location. This is a tried and true technbique on higher levels.

That combined with our resource grab to the north should give us an advantage over all other civs in terms of production and # of resources. This will give us the advantage in happiness and health cap. We may run through a phase of slower research, but our larger land area will let us eventual catch up and overtake the others. We can trade or sell our excess resources. When we go to war we will be able to build units quicker.


One can also beeline to much and spend to much time on a tech that is not overly usefull. I have made this mistake before. A couple of the lower techs are neccesary. Archery for Horse Archers (which we can produce right now with the tech) is a must for us right now. Pottery and Mysticism will be neccesary in the near future. The one of these that worries me here is pottery. We do not need it now, but we need to not foirget it and get it when our workers have finished the early resource improvments and are ready to build cottages.

I think Dutchfire is right about COL. It is not worth the price right now. I agree with him that after the neccesarey lower techs we need (archery is the main one) that mathmatics and the tech it opens up may be the direction to go for higher research.

 

[blastoidstalker]

Now if I could just learn the proper timing of warfare, and stop getting behind on the power graph...

In my opinion the best time to go to war is when you have a technological advantage in soldiery. We have (or will have) that now if we get horse archers and axe/swords. This is why i think we must go to war soon.

 

[DaveShack]

You're beelining the wrong techs, currency's free traderoute does more for you economy than a courthouse, and it doesn't cost a boatload of hammers.

It's not just the courthouse, but the shrine as well, which you have to be first to get as a builder. Granted, not such a big deal for warmongers if local civs all have religions, but I'm not much of a warmonger.

I do prioritize currency, just after CoL. How else did you think I was getting to economics first so often?

 

[DaveShack]

In my opinion the best time to go to war is when you have a technological advantage in soldiery. We have (or will have) that now if we get horse archers and axe/swords. This is why i think we must go to war soon.

Against an opponent with religion to boost city defenses, I've never been able to beat archers in cities without having either a 4:1 unit advantage (still risky) or catapults. What do you do, take a lot of chances at 25% or worse odds?

This isn't a game we can just restart if our whole army dies attacking the 1st city.

 

[blastoidstalker]

You cannot think of war as only about taking cities.

War one- We take workers, pillage and take out any foolish units that are not in capitol. We may take city # 2 of Spain at this point if they have one and we like it.

War two- We have cats or spies or we have samuri. We take out a weakened feeble state.

The only disadvantage to two wars is we get a -2 modifier with Lincoln instead of a -1.

 

[Joe Harker]

So you want two wars, one of pillaging and one of conquering?

The only disadvantage to two wars is we get a -2 modifier with lincoln instead of a -1.

And possibly a lot more war awareness.

 

[DaveShack]

You cannot think of war as only about taking cities.

Hmm, the other argument against CoL is that we'll take a religion instead of founding our own. But isn't it kinda hard to take a religion without taking a city? In which case we're delaying religion until at least construction, maybe longer?

Sorry, I don't get it. Doesn't seem like the left and right hands are in sync here...

 

[Ballazic]

Um this is all speculation. I think the point that Blastoid is making that we get more then just cities in this war and that it will involve more then just siege. That being said if we were to be in the state of war with the spainiards, the warlords faction would be running the army as that is their role in the coalition. What they say as far as war goes is more what will actually happen.

 

[DaveShack]

Exactly my point! If all the people were deciding all the issues as a whole, and not just a select few deciding individual issues, then we'd all be in sync.

 

[AluminumKnight]

Exactly my point! If all the people were deciding all the issues as a whole, and not just a select few deciding individual issues, then we'd all be in sync.

A select few deciding individual issues is exactly what our government, despotism, is supposed to be.

 

[Provolution]

AK, hear hear. And I am fine with our historical simulation here.

 

[DaveShack]

How many people does this game need to survive?

I see about 10 active. Not enough IMO, by far. It's fine for you to say that running an exclusive club is great, being the ones running the club, but I think over half of the people who signed up for the game have already left.

 

[Ballazic]

I think you have a point here, I think alot of stuff needs to be restructered as far as participation goes. But its not true that the coalition is to blame for being exsclusive. We frequnetly discuss big issues, we have delegated power, we also have shown excellent skills as explorers and micromanagers.

I agree that we need to change the way gameplay is done. Which is why I am making a research consul that provides information to the Triad leadership and gives concrete analysis about gameplay issues. The winner of the Best Turnplayer poll will head this up and give the triad good reports of what they advice for the future turnsets.

I think that we all have a bias towards democracy as that is what we are raised to think is the ideal, but in this game we are managing this game akin to picked civic. Currently this is a despotic government. So yes it is going to me authoritiarian, and yes we are trying new things so that those not in the ruling coalition have power and influence, but it is going to takes efforts from both sides. The thing is metagame and actual gameplay are connected, and so just like the guys who started factions and sold their idea, anyone is welcome to try a similar thing and see what support they can get.