Rest assured, my comments are not out of ill will towards any individual or group. I genuinely fear for the game itself, and would fail in my obligation if I didn't make suggestions as to the cause and ideas for potential improvements. 
Code of Laws Tech path vs Archery/Iron/Myst
- Thread starter Ballazic
- Start date
There was discussion amongst the philosophers of advertising "apprentice" positions that we hadn't filled to independants. It was a very good suggestion I thought we had agreed on but I haven't seen any evidence of it occuring. It would certainly help the game
In my opinion this all boils down to do we want to declare war with Spain and at a minimum take at least one holy city she will have by then (Spain my very well have more holy cities by the time war starts):
If so, go for war. Definately reserach Archery & Iron Works first.
But if not, we need to be beeling towards some religion to found now. Easyist appears to be Confucism.
If so, go for war. Definately reserach Archery & Iron Works first.
But if not, we need to be beeling towards some religion to found now. Easyist appears to be Confucism.
There's no need to actually have Code of Laws before conquering this early on.
The war with Spain may very well result in Spain handing over that tech among other possibilites.
And even if not we can always research it right after the war ends if all else fails.
The war with Spain may very well result in Spain handing over that tech among other possibilites.
And even if not we can always research it right after the war ends if all else fails.
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
First i will quote Churchill, Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried, and second, only democracy allows all players in the game to have some input and therefore feel apart of this game. With the system we have a lot of us feel push out, like we are not needed.
The following was posted in the "gameplay advancement of knowledge" thread, but I think it is also applicable here. Normally I try to avoid posting identical material in two places. Oh, wait -- it's not identical because of this preamble.
Part of this discussion hinges on how the strategy is defined. Contrast the following:
1. The strategy of the Arethan people is to become the religious power in the world and achieve total victory by being elected religious leader. All actions the nation takes will support this strategy.
2. The Arethan people desire to found a religion. The tech path will follow the shortest path to techs which found religions, until one is founded or all religions are taken by other civilizations.
3. The Arethan people desire to found a religion as one of many national goals. Since a religion is available and may be likely to be founded if we follow the Code of Laws path, we will follow that path until Confucianism is founded (by ourselves or another), at which time the goal shall either be achieved or abandoned.
4. The Arethan people desire to found a religion as one of many national goals. Since a religion is available and may be likely to be founded if we follow the Code of Laws path, we will start along that path. Since no strategy is complete without accounting for unforseen events, we may abandon this path at any time as circumstances merit.
5. Strategy is for game players, and this is a role playing game. Let's decide tech by tech, with no regard to any cohesive goal, or choose a set of techs for a short term goal without regard to the long term consequences.
I support #4, and have not said otherwise. Others seem to be supporting #5, which in my opinion is the worst possible way to do it. There have been instances in the past where people have advocated strategies like #1 or #2, which I have consistently opposed, every time.
Let's approach tech with a flexible, but longer term goal in mind. We only get one chance to try to get Confucianism. Later on, we will only get one chance to be the first to Liberalism, or the first to circumnavigate, or the first to many other things. There are many benefits to being first, not the least of which is that the last is often the brutalized.
Part of this discussion hinges on how the strategy is defined. Contrast the following:
1. The strategy of the Arethan people is to become the religious power in the world and achieve total victory by being elected religious leader. All actions the nation takes will support this strategy.
2. The Arethan people desire to found a religion. The tech path will follow the shortest path to techs which found religions, until one is founded or all religions are taken by other civilizations.
3. The Arethan people desire to found a religion as one of many national goals. Since a religion is available and may be likely to be founded if we follow the Code of Laws path, we will follow that path until Confucianism is founded (by ourselves or another), at which time the goal shall either be achieved or abandoned.
4. The Arethan people desire to found a religion as one of many national goals. Since a religion is available and may be likely to be founded if we follow the Code of Laws path, we will start along that path. Since no strategy is complete without accounting for unforseen events, we may abandon this path at any time as circumstances merit.
5. Strategy is for game players, and this is a role playing game. Let's decide tech by tech, with no regard to any cohesive goal, or choose a set of techs for a short term goal without regard to the long term consequences.
I support #4, and have not said otherwise. Others seem to be supporting #5, which in my opinion is the worst possible way to do it. There have been instances in the past where people have advocated strategies like #1 or #2, which I have consistently opposed, every time.
Let's approach tech with a flexible, but longer term goal in mind. We only get one chance to try to get Confucianism. Later on, we will only get one chance to be the first to Liberalism, or the first to circumnavigate, or the first to many other things. There are many benefits to being first, not the least of which is that the last is often the brutalized.
Furiey
No Longer Just Lurking
#4 works for me.
To be fair, I would like to see the opponents of Confucianism state their strategy in the same manner as #4. The people deserve an honest choice between equally well stated options.
Lord Civius
Emperor
Alot of you are saying you have had alot of luck beelining superexpensive techs. I would agree if we were playing on a lower difficulty or not preparing for war. The AI researches faster than we do at this high of a level. Gaining CoL is close to 40 turns away give or take. We will gain Monuments, courthouses and found a religion yet lose any tech lead we might have had on our opponents. If we opt to stay on a more conservative path we will keep our lead on our rivals and still gain a state religion via Hatty and eventually her holy city. The eventual war will strain our economy and force us to decrease our research spending. If they are already ahead of us because of the beeline we will fall very far behind during the war. With only one "possible" civ to trade with afterwards it is hard to see us coming out of this science slump for a while.
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
I thought this war was (mainly) so we could get the religion?
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I agree 100 % with Lord Civius view.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Wrong. The religion we get from an immediate "Open Border" Agreement, the war will gain us this part of the continent up to the mountains.
There is a factor of randomness to spread of religion, which means it is no more guaranteed than it is guaranteed we'll get Confucianism.
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
I will rephrase that, I thought this war was (partly) so we could get the religion's holy city?
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
yeah, the plan is to get the Religions Holy City.
For the randomness part for getting the religion... We get it sooner or later, at no cost, this is how the game works.
For the randomness part for getting the religion... We get it sooner or later, at no cost, this is how the game works.
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
I don't think there has been a clear statement of the goals of the war. I've asked for such in the war discussion thread.
-- Ravensfire
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
That was just a clever guess as it were, likewise i haven't seen any proper, we aim this that and the other. Be good to have one from whoever is in charge of that area.
ravensfire
Member of the Opposition
That was just a clever guess as it were, likewise i haven't seen any proper, we aim this that and the other. Be good to have one from whoever is in charge of that area.
Indeed. The track record so far of the Triad suggests we'll get a vague hint and a pat on the head to make us go away!
-- Ravensfire
The war against hatty is part of an overall strategy that has been talked about for quite a while, of performing an early war against our closest neighbour in order to
- worker steal
- weaken dangerous nearby opponent
- possibly capture land early on
the fact that hatty also happens to have founded a religion and that we have been gifted horseback riding (a massive advantage) so early in the game just make this strategy all the more obvious to take. We have the tech advantage now, now is the time to go to war.
- worker steal
- weaken dangerous nearby opponent
- possibly capture land early on
the fact that hatty also happens to have founded a religion and that we have been gifted horseback riding (a massive advantage) so early in the game just make this strategy all the more obvious to take. We have the tech advantage now, now is the time to go to war.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Yes, we are in the stage of formulating goals and getting needed intel, please respect that.
