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CoL Amendment - Section 8, Vacancies & Appointments

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by DaveShack, May 1, 2006.

  1. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    If someone resigns, the deputy may get a go first, who choses the deputy?
    Right the office holder.

    So it's this way already with cabinet officials, what's the problem with expanding it?
     
  2. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    This discussion has been open for well over 48 hours, and it has been more than 24 hours since the last substantial comment.

    The following is a mock poll for an amendment to the Code of Laws.

    The following amendment to the Code of Laws is hereby presented to the Citizen's Assembly for ratification. This is a citizen initiative poll, is public, and will be open for four days. To pass, 60% or more of those voting must vote yes.

    Question: Do you approve the attached amendment to Section 8 of the Code of Laws?

    Answers Yes, No, Abstain

    [Link to discussion thread]

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Text of section to be replaced.
    Section 8 - Office Limits and Vacancies

    A) Limits to Running for Offices.
    I. No Citizen may run for more than one office during an election cycle.

    B) Limits to Holding Office
    I. No member of the Triumvirate or the Judiciary may hold a second office.
    II. Governors and Members of the Cabinet may hold up to two offices at the same time.

    C) Vacancies
    I. A Vacancy occurs when an office is empty due to the office holder resigning, judicial action, impeachment, if no citizen ran for election for that office or when a new office is created.
    II. Triumvirate Vacancies
    IIA. If there is a Vacancy in the Triumvirate, the President shall nominate a citizen to that office. If the Presidency is Vacant, the Secretary of State, or Secretary of War if the Secretary of State is also Vacant, shall nominate a citizen to that office. The citizen must accept the nomination prior any further steps.​
    IIB. The Judiciary shall confirm the appointment. If confirmed, the citizen takes office immediately. If not confirmed, a different citizen must be nominated.​
    IIC. The nominee may be any citizen that does not currently hold a Triumvirate or Judicial position. If the nominee holds another office, they must resign immediately upon confirmation.​
    IID. This appointment may not be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    III. Cabinet Vacancies
    IIIA. The President must offer the position to the Deputy, if there is one.​
    IIIB. If there is no deputy, the President must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the President within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the President may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    IIIC. This appointment may be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    IV. Governor Vacancies
    IVA. The Governors Council must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the Council within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the Council may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    IVB. If there is no Governors Council, the Minister of Interior must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the Minister of Interior within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the Minister of Interior may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    V. Judicial Vacancies
    VA. The President must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the President within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the President may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    VB. This appointment may be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    VI. All vacancy appointments which are subject to a confirmation poll are provisional until the time for a confirmation poll has passed, or when a confirmation poll for that appointment concludes with a 'Yes' majority.
    Note: section VIA is a previous amendment which has been posted in the constitution / CoL thread but has not been edited into the CoL.
    VIA.
    Any citizen may post a confirmation poll for an appointment to a Vacant office within 48 hours of the appointment. This must be a private poll, asking the question "Should the appointment of <citizen name> as <office> be confirmed", with the options Yes, No and Abstain. This poll must last for 3 days. If the poll closes with more no votes than yes votes, the appointment is reversed. This citizen may not be appointed to that office again that term. The appointee holds the office and is free to exercize the full powers of the office until such time as the appointment is reversed.​
    VIB. A Citizen who holds office may apply for a new office before the 72 hour waiting period provided they write in their application that they will resign from their current office. That citizen does not have to resign until the provisional period passes.​
    VII. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Text of section to be added in place of the above original text.
    Section 8 - Limits on Office Holders, Vacancies, and Appointments

    A. Limits to Running for Offices.
    I. No Citizen may run for more than one office during an election cycle.

    B. Limits to Holding Office
    I. No member of the Triumvirate or the Judiciary may hold a second office.
    II. Governors and Members of the Cabinet may hold up to two offices at the same time, at least one via appointment.
    III. No citizen may be appointed to a 2nd office unless no citizen without a position is interested in the empty office. The appointing official must announce a deadline for citizens to indicate their interest in the office, which shall not be less than 72 hours after the time the deadline is announced. This deadline is used solely for the purpose of demonstrating no citizen is interested in the office for the purpose this subsection. At any time that a citizen without an office expresses interest in the vacancy, the deadline of this section is considered fulfilled, a citizen without an office may be appointed immediately, and no person already holding an office may be appointed to this vacancy.
    IV. A resignation contingent on an appointment may be used as a mechanism to permit a current office holder to acquire a new position, without violating subsections B.I and B.II of this section.

    C. Vacancies

    An office is vacant if any of the following conditions is met:
    1. No candidates accept a nomination for the office during elections
    2. The current office holder resigns, is impeached (recalled), or is removed from office as the result of a judicial action.
    3. The current office holder is absent from the Democracy Game forum, without notice, for a period of 5 or more days, and does not post in the Democracy Game forum within 48 hours of being notified that his/her presence is required.
    D. Filling of Vacancies

    A vacant office must be filled via the first method in this list which applies to the situation.
    1. The deputy for an office, if one exists, assumes the duties of the office.
    2. The President, if resigning from office and not being removed as the result of a recall or judicial action, appoints his/her successor.
    3. The President appoints a citizen to the office, other than the office of President.
    4. The Secretary of State appoints a citizen to the office of President, in cases where the vacancy is not due to voluntary resignation.
    5. The Secretary of War appoints a citizen to the office of President if the office of Secretary of State is also vacant.
    6. If the entire triumvirate is vacant, all three Triumvirate offices are filled via a Special Election, with nominations lasting 2 days and election polls lasting 3 days. After the special election, if any new Triumvirate member is elected, any remaining Triumvirate offices are filled by the appointment process in this section.
    7. If a special election for triumvirate offices fails to select any new triumvirate members, the highest ranking cabinet officer remaining assumes the duties of President.
    E. All vacancy appointments are provisional until the time for a confirmation poll has passed, or when a confirmation poll for that appointment concludes with a 'Yes' majority.

    F. Any citizen may post a confirmation poll for an appointment to a Vacant office within 48 hours of the appointment. This must be a private poll, asking the question "Should the appointment of <citizen name> as <office> be confirmed", with the options Yes, No and Abstain. This poll must last for 3 days. If the poll closes with more no votes than yes votes, the appointment is reversed. This citizen may not be appointed to that office again that term. The appointee holds the office and is free to exercize the full powers of the office until such time as the appointment is reversed.

    G. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
     
  3. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Would someone care to (re)submit this proposal for a review?
     
  4. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    JR request filed...
     
  5. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    I plan to modify the proposed amendment by Thursday morning. The amendment was ruled ineligible for ratification by the term 5 judiciary. In order to resubmit the amendment for another JR I think it best to modify the proposal to rectify the problems raised by the judiciary last term. While the court ruled 3-0 against the amendment, there were two different problems cited. The first (as ruled by the JA and PD) was that the amendment had internal conflicts regarding the 72 waiting period. I propose to remove reference to that altogether. The other problem (as ruled by the CJ - me) was that the amendment conflicted with B.2.C of the constitution regarding the eligibility to hold office. That issue has been addressed by the term 6 judiciary I believe and so no further changes may be needed.

    I have printed out the proposal - all four pages - and hope to have an exact proposal up here ready for dscussion by Thursday morning. After discussion we can request a new JR.
     
  6. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Here's my proposed amendment:

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Text of section to be replaced.
    Section 8 - Office Limits and Vacancies

    A) Limits to Running for Offices.
    I. No Citizen may run for more than one office during an election cycle.

    B) Limits to Holding Office
    I. No member of the Triumvirate or the Judiciary may hold a second office.
    II. Governors and Members of the Cabinet may hold up to two offices at the same time.

    C) Vacancies
    I. A Vacancy occurs when an office is empty due to the office holder resigning, judicial action, impeachment, if no citizen ran for election for that office or when a new office is created.
    II. Triumvirate Vacancies
    IIA. If there is a Vacancy in the Triumvirate, the President shall nominate a citizen to that office. If the Presidency is Vacant, the Secretary of State, or Secretary of War if the Secretary of State is also Vacant, shall nominate a citizen to that office. The citizen must accept the nomination prior any further steps.​
    IIB. The Judiciary shall confirm the appointment. If confirmed, the citizen takes office immediately. If not confirmed, a different citizen must be nominated.​
    IIC. The nominee may be any citizen that does not currently hold a Triumvirate or Judicial position. If the nominee holds another office, they must resign immediately upon confirmation.​
    IID. This appointment may not be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    III. Cabinet Vacancies
    IIIA. The President must offer the position to the Deputy, if there is one.​
    IIIB. If there is no deputy, the President must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the President within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the President may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    IIIC. This appointment may be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    IV. Governor Vacancies
    IVA. The Governors Council must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the Council within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the Council may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    IVB. If there is no Governors Council, the Minister of Interior must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the Minister of Interior within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the Minister of Interior may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    V. Judicial Vacancies
    VA. The President must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the President within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the President may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    VB. This appointment may be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    VI. All vacancy appointments which are subject to a confirmation poll are provisional until the time for a confirmation poll has passed, or when a confirmation poll for that appointment concludes with a 'Yes' majority.
    Note: section VIA is a previous amendment which has been posted in the constitution / CoL thread but has not been edited into the CoL.
    VIA.
    Any citizen may post a confirmation poll for an appointment to a Vacant office within 48 hours of the appointment. This must be a private poll, asking the question "Should the appointment of <citizen name> as <office> be confirmed", with the options Yes, No and Abstain. This poll must last for 3 days. If the poll closes with more no votes than yes votes, the appointment is reversed. This citizen may not be appointed to that office again that term. The appointee holds the office and is free to exercize the full powers of the office until such time as the appointment is reversed.​
    VIB. A Citizen who holds office may apply for a new office before the 72 hour waiting period provided they write in their application that they will resign from their current office. That citizen does not have to resign until the provisional period passes.​
    VII. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Text of section to be added in place of the above original text.
    Section 8 - Office Limits and Vacancies

    A) Limits to Running for Offices.
    I. No Citizen may run for more than one office during an election cycle.

    B) Limits to Holding Office
    I. No member of the Triumvirate or the Judiciary may hold a second office.
    II. Governors and Members of the Cabinet may hold up to two offices at the same time.
    III. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices.

    C) Vacancies

    An office is vacant if any of the following conditions is met:
    1. No candidates accept a nomination for the office during elections
    2. The current office holder resigns.
    3. The current office holder is impeached / recalled.
    4. The current office holder is removed from office as the result of judicial action.

    D. Filling of Vacancies

    A vacant office must be filled via the first method in this list which applies to the situation.
    1. A deputy exists for the vacant office: the deputy is automatically installed as the new officeholder.
    2. The office of President is not vacant: the President appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    3. The office of Secretary of State is not vacant: the Secretary of State appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    4. The office of Secretary of War is not vacant: the Secretary of War appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    5. The office of Censor is not vacant: the Censor appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    6. The office of Minister of the Interior is not vacant: the Minister of the Interior appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    7. The office of Minister of Culture is not vacant: the Minister of Culture appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    8. The office of Minister of the Science is not vacant: the Minister of the Science appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    9. The office of Director of Intelligence is not vacant: the Director of Intelligence appoints a citizen to the vacant office.

    E. Confirmation Polls

    Any citizen may post a confirmation poll for an appointment to a vacant office within 48 hours of the appointment. This must be a private poll, asking the question "Should the appointment of <citizen name> as <office> be confirmed", with the options Yes, No and Abstain. This poll must last for 3 days. If the poll closes with more no votes than yes votes, the appointment is reversed. This citizen may not be appointed to that office again that term. The appointee holds the office and is free to exercise the full powers of the office until such time as the appointment is reversed.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Change log - not part of the proposed law!

    Removed B.III and B.IV from the proposal since they pertain to the 72 hour clause. Moved G from the original proposal to B.III since it logically belongs in this section.

    C.3 (the arbitrary 5 day absence clause) was removed. Let's keep it simple and use recall.

    D. Removed the special election of the Tri. If we can't wait 72 hours to appoint officials why can we wait 120 hours for a whole new Tri? Used a chain of command type list as was intended in the original proposal.

    E was removed since it has been over-ridden by F.

    F became E.

    G became B.III.

    If you like the proposal make a post saying so. If you want to reccommend changes please post that as well.
     
  7. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    To Section B III, do we want to add Mayors to the list of offices that don't count?
     
  8. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    And Deputyship?
     
  9. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    How about:

    III. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices. The same is true of of other posts for which elections are not held, e.g. Mayors and Deputies.
     
  10. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    I wouldn't use other, because there is an election for the DPpool.
     
  11. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    There is a prior ruling that already excludes non-power appointed *offices*. In light of that is it reallt necessary to include mayors and such in this amendment?
     
  12. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    The 5-day (or whatever time frame we want) clause is important because we haven't changed Triumvirate recall to be a single office, nor have we added recall of the Judiciary. As it stands now, we're completely at the mercy of someone winning an election and then never showing up again.
     
  13. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Can we fix one problem at a time? The more we try to chance at once the longer the process takes and the greater the chance of generating conflicts. I am sympathetic with the concerns expressed (I recall handing down a minority ruling stating recall of the Tri as a whole was unconstitutional). But please let's nail down a concensus on filling vacancies vis-a-vis the 72 hour rule and then fix the next thing.
     
  14. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    Probably not, but as we are making an amendment anyway I suggest we do include it. It is much easier for new Demogamers (and folks like myself who struggle to remember all the legal rulings) if stuff is in one place. It is only one sentence in quite a large section and makes it clearer for folks. I think the trade-off is worth it.
     
  15. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    The trouble is we then add one more thing that has to be checked for conflicts. Given the length of our CoL, I'm not prepared to say that adding even this one seemingly harmless sentence does not raise a conflict. I'm sympathetic to your suggestion but really think we should just submit this one to the judiciary and let them rule on it.

    All of us choosing to play this game need a minimum legal vocabulary in order for us to function. After all these demogames we still do not have that in place. We have a specific legal definition for when an office is vacant (though IMO it is incomplete). We need a similar definition of office that we can all agree on. (Do we base the definition on electability of office or or ability to post game play instructions or something else?) I think we're better off just trying to pass this amendment as is and putting some effort into constructing a legal dictionary for use in reading and drafting laws.
     
  16. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    Fair enough. Go for it & submit it
     
  17. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    The following is a mock poll for an amendment to the Code of Laws.

    The following amendment to the Code of Laws is hereby presented to the Citizen's Assembly for ratification. This is a citizen initiative poll, is public, and will be open for four days. To pass, 60% or more of those voting must vote yes.

    Question: Do you approve the attached amendment to Section 8 of the Code of Laws?

    Answers Yes, No, Abstain

    [Link to discussion thread]

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Text of section to be replaced.
    Section 8 - Office Limits and Vacancies

    A) Limits to Running for Offices.
    I. No Citizen may run for more than one office during an election cycle.

    B) Limits to Holding Office
    I. No member of the Triumvirate or the Judiciary may hold a second office.
    II. Governors and Members of the Cabinet may hold up to two offices at the same time.

    C) Vacancies
    I. A Vacancy occurs when an office is empty due to the office holder resigning, judicial action, impeachment, if no citizen ran for election for that office or when a new office is created.
    II. Triumvirate Vacancies
    IIA. If there is a Vacancy in the Triumvirate, the President shall nominate a citizen to that office. If the Presidency is Vacant, the Secretary of State, or Secretary of War if the Secretary of State is also Vacant, shall nominate a citizen to that office. The citizen must accept the nomination prior any further steps.​
    IIB. The Judiciary shall confirm the appointment. If confirmed, the citizen takes office immediately. If not confirmed, a different citizen must be nominated.​
    IIC. The nominee may be any citizen that does not currently hold a Triumvirate or Judicial position. If the nominee holds another office, they must resign immediately upon confirmation.​
    IID. This appointment may not be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    III. Cabinet Vacancies
    IIIA. The President must offer the position to the Deputy, if there is one.​
    IIIB. If there is no deputy, the President must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the President within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the President may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    IIIC. This appointment may be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    IV. Governor Vacancies
    IVA. The Governors Council must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the Council within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the Council may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    IVB. If there is no Governors Council, the Minister of Interior must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the Minister of Interior within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the Minister of Interior may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    V. Judicial Vacancies
    VA. The President must request interested citizens that do not currently hold office to contact them. If no such citizen contacts the President within 72 hours of the office being declared Vacant, the President may appoint any citizen to the office.​
    VB. This appointment may be challenged by a confirmation poll.​
    VI. All vacancy appointments which are subject to a confirmation poll are provisional until the time for a confirmation poll has passed, or when a confirmation poll for that appointment concludes with a 'Yes' majority.
    Note: section VIA is a previous amendment which has been posted in the constitution / CoL thread but has not been edited into the CoL.
    VIA.
    Any citizen may post a confirmation poll for an appointment to a Vacant office within 48 hours of the appointment. This must be a private poll, asking the question "Should the appointment of <citizen name> as <office> be confirmed", with the options Yes, No and Abstain. This poll must last for 3 days. If the poll closes with more no votes than yes votes, the appointment is reversed. This citizen may not be appointed to that office again that term. The appointee holds the office and is free to exercize the full powers of the office until such time as the appointment is reversed.​
    VIB. A Citizen who holds office may apply for a new office before the 72 hour waiting period provided they write in their application that they will resign from their current office. That citizen does not have to resign until the provisional period passes.​
    VII. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Text of section to be added in place of the above original text.
    Section 8 - Office Limits and Vacancies

    A) Limits to Running for Offices.
    I. No Citizen may run for more than one office during an election cycle.

    B) Limits to Holding Office
    I. No member of the Triumvirate or the Judiciary may hold a second office.
    II. Governors and Members of the Cabinet may hold up to two offices at the same time.
    III. Being a member of the Designated Player Pool is not considered holding an office and thus is not counted against a Citizen in terms of being able to run for and hold multiple offices.

    C) Vacancies

    An office is vacant if any of the following conditions is met:
    1. No candidates accept a nomination for the office during elections
    2. The current office holder resigns.
    3. The current office holder is impeached / recalled.
    4. The current office holder is removed from office as the result of judicial action.

    D. Filling of Vacancies

    A vacant office must be filled via the first method in this list which applies to the situation.
    1. A deputy exists for the vacant office: the deputy is automatically installed as the new officeholder.
    2. The office of President is not vacant: the President appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    3. The office of Secretary of State is not vacant: the Secretary of State appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    4. The office of Secretary of War is not vacant: the Secretary of War appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    5. The office of Censor is not vacant: the Censor appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    6. The office of Minister of the Interior is not vacant: the Minister of the Interior appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    7. The office of Minister of Culture is not vacant: the Minister of Culture appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    8. The office of Minister of the Science is not vacant: the Minister of the Science appoints a citizen to the vacant office.
    9. The office of Director of Intelligence is not vacant: the Director of Intelligence appoints a citizen to the vacant office.

    E. Confirmation Polls

    Any citizen may post a confirmation poll for an appointment to a vacant office within 48 hours of the appointment. This must be a private poll, asking the question "Should the appointment of <citizen name> as <office> be confirmed", with the options Yes, No and Abstain. This poll must last for 3 days. If the poll closes with more no votes than yes votes, the appointment is reversed. This citizen may not be appointed to that office again that term. The appointee holds the office and is free to exercise the full powers of the office until such time as the appointment is reversed.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
     
  18. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    The re-review process for this amendment has started, in parallel with the waiting period on the mock poll.
     

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