The thing however is that a trade route will only bring in 1-2 coins at start. But a courthouse will reduce maintenance directly with 3 gold or something (upkeep normally around -6.00). Even with a market and the extra trade route you will not get that much money (unless you are really low in the research).
Col is overrated
- Thread starter oyzar
- Start date
Archaelicos
Warlord
What is the immediate bonus of currency?
Nelgirith
Chieftain
+1 trade route iirc
+ the ability to trade for money :
- sell resources for gpt
- sell techs for gold
- ask politely for gold
- extort gold
- sue for peace, gaining some gold in the trade
The thing is that currency gives you trade route immediately, while CoL gives you zilch to begin with. You still have to build those courthouses.
And a market is also a happiness building, so I gladly whip for it.
r_rolo1
King of myself
And not-so-immediate effect:
Markets ( ok, more
than courthouses... ) :
-Merchant specialist
- + 25%
( or is 
? Can't remember... )
- +
if certain resources present ( not having Civ acess now... someone can add the resources... I remember Gold and Silver, but the others not )
Markets ( ok, more
than courthouses... ) :-Merchant specialist
- + 25%
( or is ? Can't remember... )- +
if certain resources present ( not having Civ acess now... someone can add the resources... I remember Gold and Silver, but the others not )futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
i often now go alpha/math-currency-col although i will usually install courthouses before markets as courthouses are cheaper and there may not be enough commerce in the city for the market to make much of an impact. distance maintenance is always a problem.
yep, that's also standard practice for me.
IMHO the key part (going for domination or at least a warlike stance) is the ability to ask for gold.
I only build markets in my big $ cities or if I have the furs and ivory already (silk and whales come later).
In captured cities, I will whip a courthouse right away whereas I never did whip a market first thing.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
OK, I am lat ein this one and haven'e read all posts, but looks like a discussion between COL and currency. My views on getting obver the other first
1) COL (fewer beaker than currency)
Benefits:
Found Confusianism (good with oracle slingshot, second to metal casting IMHO)
Allows courthouses: They need to be build/whipped but this is key to expansion, unless you have a well spread/shrined religion early.
Provides espionage: +2 per courthouse, otherwise you have to wait until constitution, run a spy speciliat, or use the culture slider.
Opens caste system: Which allow you to run all the merchants you want, at the cost of losing the whip. Note: Big benefit if you got metal casting off the oracle and have a limited production capital. Caste system workhouses on plains provide 3 hammers.
Drawbacks:
No immediate financial benefit if you stay in slavery
No religion is your not first to it.
2) Currency (more beakers than COL)
Benefits:
Build markets: Costly but can be huge especially in a shrined city. That is a veyr big early benefit.
Trade route: +1 trade route doubling commerce. Very big if you have open border and costal cities. Big if you have fairly large cities
Trade resources for Cash: You may get as much is you think they are worth, but ealry on a few extra gold means a higher science slider.
Trade techs: You can trade early techs to backwards civs for needed cash.
Drawbacks:
Beaker costs for teching and hammer costs for building ar enot trivial this early in the game.
Except for ivory, those happiness resource require calender and plantations.
In my games I always go after COL first, but currency soon after. Will occasionally bulb currency from GM.
1) COL (fewer beaker than currency)
Benefits:
Found Confusianism (good with oracle slingshot, second to metal casting IMHO)
Allows courthouses: They need to be build/whipped but this is key to expansion, unless you have a well spread/shrined religion early.
Provides espionage: +2 per courthouse, otherwise you have to wait until constitution, run a spy speciliat, or use the culture slider.
Opens caste system: Which allow you to run all the merchants you want, at the cost of losing the whip. Note: Big benefit if you got metal casting off the oracle and have a limited production capital. Caste system workhouses on plains provide 3 hammers.
Drawbacks:
No immediate financial benefit if you stay in slavery
No religion is your not first to it.
2) Currency (more beakers than COL)
Benefits:
Build markets: Costly but can be huge especially in a shrined city. That is a veyr big early benefit.
Trade route: +1 trade route doubling commerce. Very big if you have open border and costal cities. Big if you have fairly large cities
Trade resources for Cash: You may get as much is you think they are worth, but ealry on a few extra gold means a higher science slider.
Trade techs: You can trade early techs to backwards civs for needed cash.
Drawbacks:
Beaker costs for teching and hammer costs for building ar enot trivial this early in the game.
Except for ivory, those happiness resource require calender and plantations.
In my games I always go after COL first, but currency soon after. Will occasionally bulb currency from GM.
Archaelicos
Warlord
Ok the pro-Currency people have me pretty convinced now. So that trade route does show up immediately upon getting currency? I've asked this in another thread, but how does the game determine what city you get a trade route with?
Nelgirith
Chieftain
1. Yes, you automatically get an additionnal trade route per city.
2. Good question. I'd like to know an explanation too as it interests me big time.
I'm also wondering if Mercantilism is any good.
Archaelicos
Warlord
What I'm really getting at with my question is - you get the capacity for one more trade route but does it necessarily appear right away? What if there is no available city to trade with for some reason?
There are always cities available for trade, as you can have multiple domestic traderoutes per city. So you will always get at minimum the lowest possible commerce domestic traderoute.
I don't know how the code works, but I've understood that the cities get to select their traderoutes in order of which city gets most out of trade (ie. has highest traderoute multiplier / is largest - these seem to be main issues). When a city gets to select a traderoute, it takes those that yield highest trade commerce. Which is why when you get added traderoute (currency, corporation, airport - don't remember which all) some of your smaller cities may lose their higher yield traderoutes as now bigger cities get to take those too. Thus your small cities have to do with some domestic routes.
I don't know how the code works, but I've understood that the cities get to select their traderoutes in order of which city gets most out of trade (ie. has highest traderoute multiplier / is largest - these seem to be main issues). When a city gets to select a traderoute, it takes those that yield highest trade commerce. Which is why when you get added traderoute (currency, corporation, airport - don't remember which all) some of your smaller cities may lose their higher yield traderoutes as now bigger cities get to take those too. Thus your small cities have to do with some domestic routes.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
You have to have a trade route with at least 2 other cities (they could be foreign or your own) to get the immediate benefits of currency. This can be done via road, river (with sailing) or costal (again with sailing). I would say it would be very rare in a standard game to have less than 2 cities connected via trade route by teh time you have teched currency but I guess it's possible.
r_rolo1
King of myself
.....jason77024
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2007
- Messages
- 208
And not-so-immediate effect:
Markets ( ok, more
-Merchant specialist
- + 25%
- +
Actually gold & silver (& gems) go with forges.
Markets give +1
each for fur, ivory, silk, whale. Some games I think I build markets for more than for cash.Actually gold & silver (& gems) go with forges.
Markets give +1
same for me, but usually the cities requiring the happy boost are the same that have a healthy commerce base.
It's pretty rare that all my cities get markets. It's only the top commerce cities (usually the biggest, needing the most happiness) + shrine cities.
r_rolo1
King of myself
Thanks for the correction, jason77024 . And I agree with you and cabert that markets pair better with the bigger cities ( more citizens = more tiles worked + more need for = more need for a market )
= more need for a market )
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
The only cities that can build markets quickly are the ones that don't need them.
The advantage of code of laws is that AI tend to go mathematics and currency a lot earlier than code of laws, so you're "wasting research". This isn't a big deal on lower levels, but then trade routes are also smaller on lower levels. I like trade routes, but I hate opening borders.
I like the trading money the best. Instead of refusing lopsided trades, you can trade a new tech to everyone to backfill and for money.
The advantage of code of laws is that AI tend to go mathematics and currency a lot earlier than code of laws, so you're "wasting research". This isn't a big deal on lower levels, but then trade routes are also smaller on lower levels. I like trade routes, but I hate opening borders.
I like the trading money the best. Instead of refusing lopsided trades, you can trade a new tech to everyone to backfill and for money.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
Ooh, right, I forgot about the caste system aspect. That certainly boosts CoL up. But for what llinev said before is that I find the early monarchy shot very useful, especially if you don't get very many happiness resources. I dont know about the math, but if you get cottages on rivers which soon become 3 per cottage at hamlet stage that generates as much as a merchant specialist while still growing the city. This becomes even better with financial, as each cottage is 3 commerce and becomes 4 quickly, making the raised happy cap much more effective as economy can run around 70%ish.
If you get the CE up and running w/ happiness resources or monarchy, it'll balance out without having courthouses be necessary, and my CE's in particular have low production so currency gives benefits w/o having to build courthouses. But it'll work out about the same if you research CoL and pop philosophy to pick up currency quickly enough in trade.
From original post CoL would be a bit better than currency because you
1. probably won't even need monarchy as happy cap is good
2. can trade around easily
3. can pop philosophy easily, pretty much a guarentee of founding confucianism or taoism
4. can go to civil service to get bureacracy jump and/or quickly get to machinery to kill weak Ai's with maces and catas
If you get the CE up and running w/ happiness resources or monarchy, it'll balance out without having courthouses be necessary, and my CE's in particular have low production so currency gives benefits w/o having to build courthouses. But it'll work out about the same if you research CoL and pop philosophy to pick up currency quickly enough in trade.
From original post CoL would be a bit better than currency because you
1. probably won't even need monarchy as happy cap is good
2. can trade around easily
3. can pop philosophy easily, pretty much a guarentee of founding confucianism or taoism
4. can go to civil service to get bureacracy jump and/or quickly get to machinery to kill weak Ai's with maces and catas
