Colonies are cool!

[DrewBledsoe]

Nice!!!



Essentially makes the game go forward like in the real world history. I can't wait playing it! I'd like to play the Sumerians, 'giving birth' to all other civs in the Middle East, actually developing Western Civilization like in the real world!

I'm happy.

[Off topic, but thought I'd mention]:- Sumer are THE spy nation. This is because the first real spying jump, is when you build courthouses (unless you spend income towards espionage through the slider, but I've found none of the ais bother until much, much later in the game). Because Sumer get courthouses at priesthood, you get a massive jump on everyone else.

 

[jkp1187]

It would be nice if they included established modifiers for civ names, e.g.:
New America
America 2
America 2a
New America 2a

j/k ...but some sort of systematic modifer.

No, that actually sounds like a good idea. It would be great if the grantor of independence could give the colony it's own Civilization name. Can't be too hard to add that little feature.

 

[Watiggi]

[Off topic, but thought I'd mention]:- Sumer are THE spy nation. This is because the first real spying jump, is when you build courthouses (unless you spend income towards espionage through the slider, but I've found none of the ais bother until much, much later in the game). Because Sumer get courthouses at priesthood, you get a massive jump on everyone else.

Yeah, I agree - especially if you also get the Great Wall too! I think they intentionally put a lot more synergy and themes in the leaders trait/UB/UU combos this time. I think Joah II will have awesome colony synergy too.

 

[Watiggi]

For those wanting to know how the colony making process is, I've made a screenshot sequence of the making of a colony. It's in the BtS screenshot repository at part 1 and part 2.

 

[Rince]

Just a little off topic question: What does the spy symbol in the leader list signify?

 

[futurehermit]

(**)

Question:

Do colonies count 50% toward your domination totals like vassals do? Or do they count 100%? Or 0%?

Thanks!

I would still appreciate an answer to this. Thanks

 

[Watiggi]

Victoria game: I now have 10 colonies!! I've built 37 cities and I own 6 of them! This is a really fun game. (screenshots of foreign advisor below)

I would still appreciate an answer to this. Thanks

Sorry, I loose track of what has been answered and what hasn't. There's nothing that actually says that the colonies pop and territory are included, but I know my rival (Brennus) is way bigger than me with at least 2-3 times more cities and yet for dommination victory I have a higher population and territory controlled. So yeah, it appears to be included. In the end, it's just like a vassal, so it should be half their population and territory. As to 0%, 50% or 100%? I don't know. It doesn't specifically say.

Just a little off topic question: What does the spy symbol in the leader list signify?

It means you have accumulated more espionage points than them. So, if I have that symbol with Napoleon, it means I've accumulated more EP's towards Napoleon than he has towards me.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Victoria game: I now have 10 colonies!! I've built 37 cities and I own 6 of them! This is a really fun game. (screenshots of foreign advisor below)

Sorry, I loose track of what has been answered and what hasn't. There's nothing that actually says that the colonies pop and territory are included, but I know my rival (Brennus) is way bigger than me with at least 2-3 times more cities and yet for dommination victory I have a higher population and territory controlled. So yeah, it appears to be included. In the end, it's just like a vassal, so it should be half their population and territory. As to 0%, 50% or 100%? I don't know. It doesn't specifically say.

It means you have accumulated more espionage points than them. So, if I have that symbol with Napoleon, it means I've accumulated more EP's towards Napoleon than he has towards me.

Thats quite an amusing experiment, but lets call it an experiment only , as I can't see many games being played with a large/huge map and only you and one ai

And sorta on the same subject, Russia attacked me, lost horribly and then Offered me little Angkhor Wat plus cash as a peace deal. It was a size one city that had been fought over for centuries and was 99% Khymer. I immediately used the colony option to liberate it and gift it back to the Khymer, which immediately game me a +1 "You liberated one of our cities" with Khymer.

At last! Recognition for something that should have been in ages back. (But nice job putting it in at last )Hopefully, this is accumulative, and if you join a war, and help say liberate French cities from Germany a la WWII, you get a +1 from each city, instead of just a "our trades have been fair and forthright".

 

[jkp1187]

Thats quite an amusing experiment, but lets call it an experiment only , as I can't see many games being played with a large/huge map and only you and one ai

And sorta on the same subject, Russia attacked me, lost horribly and then Offered me little Angkhor Wat plus cash as a peace deal. It was a size one city that had been fought over for centuries and was 99% Khymer. I immediately used the colony option to liberate it and gift it back to the Khymer, which immediately game me a +1 "You liberated one of our cities" with Khymer.

At last! Recognition for something that should have been in ages back. (But nice job putting it in at last )Hopefully, this is accumulative, and if you join a war, and help say liberate French cities from Germany a la WWII, you get a +1 from each city, instead of just a "our trades have been fair and forthright".

Except, for Charles de Gaulle, there will be a cap at a +1 bonus for liberating cities.

Seriously, though, I am glad this feature was added.

Did you get the trading bonus for gifting cities in Warlords? I don't recall ever seeing that....

 

[DrewTate]

The problem with that type of game is that all you have to do now is build the AP and spread your state religion to at least one city of each colony and they will all vote for your victory.

Or you can build the UN and win in a heartbeat. Interesting experiment, though.

And Drew: No kidding! It's about time we get credit for liberating people's cities and giving them back to them!

 

[futurehermit]

Sorry, I loose track of what has been answered and what hasn't. There's nothing that actually says that the colonies pop and territory are included, but I know my rival (Brennus) is way bigger than me with at least 2-3 times more cities and yet for dommination victory I have a higher population and territory controlled. So yeah, it appears to be included. In the end, it's just like a vassal, so it should be half their population and territory. As to 0%, 50% or 100%? I don't know. It doesn't specifically say.

Ok, thks, it is probably 50% same as vassal then if it's not stated. I just wanted to get a sense of how vassals can help you win the game.

 

[mice]

I just did a rough world builder test and it seems that colonies do give 50% to the dom. limit just as vassals do. This is good news.

It makes a case for water maps, as you can't make your vassal a colony if it's on the same continent as far as I know.

So you can get a good diplo situation if the vassal is over the sea, but it remains a bad diplo situation if they are not. I would like to be proved wrong on this though.

Edit, I'm assuming you can make an overseas vassal (through war) into a colony because I haven't tried it yet. Has anyone done this yet?

 

[Watiggi]

It makes a case for water maps, as you can't make your vassal a colony if it's on the same continent as far as I know.

Yeah, it's got me off of the Pangae/Lakes map addiction I had

So you can get a good diplo situation if the vassal is over the sea, but it remains a bad diplo situation if they are not. I would like to be proved wrong on this though.

Nup, you're right. If you build a whole lot of cities on your continent, you can't turn them into colonies (I sooo wish!). You can however liberate your cities to a nearby colony, but that colony must have originated overseas first.

I would love to be able to grant independance to cities on my own turf. That would make for interesting conquest, followed up by delegating leaders to manage that conquered territory. That'll be cool.

Edit, I'm assuming you can make an overseas vassal (through war) into a colony because I haven't tried it yet. Has anyone done this yet?

I haven't done it, but it makes sense. It might only allow you to liberate the cities back to their original owner rather than give them independace.... you'll probably have to get a full capitulation from them first, then you'd be able to hand back the cities you've just conquered rather than turn them into a colony. That would make more sense to me, and be fairer.

Actually, come to think about it, there isn't a need for colonies on your own continent: On your own continent, you'd probably do it through conquest and when you get them capitualted, you'd give them back their cities and they'd manage it from there, effectively delegating cities.

Also note though, that apparently (I haven't tried it) you can gift cities that want liberation in diplomacy. I wonder whether you could get something in return for it...?

 

[Gr8scott]

So when you make a colony, the AI takes over? Do the colonies get an AI bonus based on difficulty?!?

Just think, at a high level, you could plant a ton of colonies and just let them develop with all the land with those yummy AI bonuses!

I sure will be happy to have the game and stop all this speculation!

GS

 

[AriochIV]

It would be nice if they included established modifiers for civ names, e.g.:
New America
America 2
America 2a
New America 2a

j/k ...but some sort of systematic modifer.

That's an excellent idea... New Spain or New Portugal makes a lot more sense than having two Spains.

 

[BlueDevil03]

My question is when does "independence" happen?
As I understand it, you have acquired cities on another land mass.

You then pick them cities to be ruled by the AI (colony)
At this point I would imagine that the colony is just like a vassal state (with perks and downfalls for having a vassal ie. war allie / higher maintance fee in master country

Then you have a choice of allowing the colony to have its independence from you.


Here are my questions:

When you make a colony what is the base relations of this new colony towards the mother country?

When a colony become independent do you loose victory points since the colony would now be an independent nation?

Doesn't having a lot of colonies effect maintenace cost of your cities?

If someone could answer some of these questions it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mice]

When you make a colony what is the base relations of this new colony towards the mother country?

Not sure what you mean by base level, but you get a +10 diplo modifier.
Usually friendly. It's good.

When a colony become independent do you loose victory points since the colony would now be an independent nation?

It seems that you keep the 50% of their land for domination victory just like vassals. (but not completely suer about that yet)

Doesn't having a lot of colonies effect maintenace cost of your cities?

No, you have to pay zero in maintenance. There is a cost in F2 called 'colony maintenance' if you mouse over the maintenance costs. This is for cities on other landmasses, and the cost gets high after two cities. When you give the cities independance, the cost goes to zero.

Vassals on another landmass cant be turned into colonies it seems. You can just gift them their cites in exchange for things, and a + diplo modifier . I think it's +2 per city. However I'm getting a CTD every time I try to do it.

 

[BlueDevil03]

Not sure what you mean by base level, but you get a +10 diplo modifier.
Usually friendly. It's good.

Well like I said, if you give cities that you own status of a colony. What is this new colony relations towards you. If you still have control over them like a vassal shouldn't they see this as oppression and want to be free completley from your rule?

It seems that you keep the 50% of their land for domination victory just like vassals. (but not completely suer about that yet)

As I see it a colony that has its independence should be just like a vassal that decides to be free from your rule and the points that you were rewarded should go down when they leave you.

No, you have to pay zero in maintenance. There is a cost in F2 called 'colony maintenance' if you mouse over the maintenance costs. This is for cities on other landmasses, and the cost gets high after two cities. When you give the cities independance, the cost goes to zero.

OK, i think this clears things up on what giving idependence means. Except it doesn't make that much sense lol. I don't see how independence and colony can associated with each other.

If I own two cities on another continent, and I decide to let them govern themselves. It should be like a vassal state I have created right? I should gain the benefits that having a vassal state would allow.

Now, if that colony I have just founded becomes tired of the rule I have over them, I have the option of allowing them freedom. I would get a +10 diplo for allowing this to happen, but would also loose the benefits of having that colony.

Does anyone understand what I'm talking about lol.
Basically what I'm asking is does independence mean allowing a group of cities to govern themselves but keep a vassal type of relation with you. Or does independence mean this colony is now an independent nation that only shares diplomatic relations with you.

 

[Watiggi]

BlueDevil03, I guess from a technical standpoint, you're right: The colony is the cities you settle on another island where you're charged colonial maintanence in order to keep control of them. When you grant them freedom, they essentially become a vassal to you rather than a 'colony'. I call those vassals 'colonies' though, because of the way they're created.

As for true independance: They're truely free. It's like a vassal where they want to be your vassal, they choose to keep the vassal status going or not, that's not your decision. Only, in this case, unless you treat them bad, they'll just stay with you and agree to be your vassal. But they have the power to break away if they decide.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if your colony (vassal) becomes much more powerful than you. Would they stay or break away? I might explore this with my current Victoria game. I'm starting to wonder what the game considers a colony to be (and an independant colony aswell).

edit: Just checked, the Civilopedia considers a colony turned vassal an actual colony. So the cities on another island are just your cities and making them independant makes them into a 'colony'.

 

[SJSerio]

No, that actually sounds like a good idea. It would be great if the grantor of independence could give the colony it's own Civilization name. Can't be too hard to add that little feature.

Perhaps it could be like cities or great people where each Civ will have a list in the xml file. The list could include exsisting Civ's, as well as non exsisting ones. As for the Existing ones, ones that are already in the game would be skipped over when colonizing. As we move down the list, the ones that are not in the current game are next. They would receive their own leaders (randomly chosen if multiple). The next step would be civ's not present in the game at all. Those would either get leaders not already running the parent or other colonies, or randomly chosen from leaders who are not already in the game.

It could be a bit confusing, but i will try to provide an example. Let's say a game has Rome, Britian, India, China and Arabia. Rome could have all of the Western European civs, such as Britian, France, Spain, Germany, etc in its list. Followed by Sicily, Croatia, Etrusca, etc. as non-existing Civ's. Rome makes a colony and creates Spain who gets Isabella as a leader. Later, for arguments sake, the France and Germany are created by another civ. Rome founds another colony which winds up being Sicily. Augustus leads it as Jules is already controling Rome itself.

Note: Yes, HRE would also be an obvious choice for Rome as well... I'm just brainstorming here.

England would have America, Canada, and Australia in its list, obviously, and America could have CSA, Canada and Australia as well (mostly to give choices... as long as they are listed in priority, England would still have the chance to found Canada or Australia first). The Civ's would overlap, but allow for variety, and the chance that more missing civ's could end up in the game after all.

Well, I don't know how it works in the game... hope to find out very soon, but maybe some skillful modder could work this in down the road.