Aravorn
Deity
Regular Royal Cannon in Bristol Destroys French Horsey with hardly a scratch, Horsey was unfortified on Hills. Royal Cannon became Vet after the magnificent slaughter of the mediocre French rabble.
Colonies IV MP beta test
- Thread starter Patient English
- Start date
Patient English
Designer
Yeah, I knew he was lost, but thought it worthwhile to split Southern England in two.
I have enough data to issue Colonies 4.2 - which we can play right through to a conclusion, at a proper pace, without "artificial" wars.
However, we should work out who is playing for Holland, and whether we want to swap Civs around. I think 5 players are best, although the Independents and Hapsburgs are playable - even more so now.
Our best player shouldn't be the Independents, though!
I have enough data to issue Colonies 4.2 - which we can play right through to a conclusion, at a proper pace, without "artificial" wars.
However, we should work out who is playing for Holland, and whether we want to swap Civs around. I think 5 players are best, although the Independents and Hapsburgs are playable - even more so now.
Our best player shouldn't be the Independents, though!
Patient English
Designer
Shall we play on in this one?
yaroslav
Emperor
I don't mind to play another gam or to continue this game - I'm having a great time playing Spain!
Aravorn
Deity
I say do a new one and mix up the CIV;'s, and we need to find a fifth player. (Yaro you can again be Spain if you wish 
)
John if its still possible, Id like to keep it to 5 players since from the Boney Tourney you know what happens to a seven player game
Can the Haps and Independants still be effectively AI Controlled?
)John if its still possible, Id like to keep it to 5 players since from the Boney Tourney you know what happens to a seven player game
Can the Haps and Independants still be effectively AI Controlled?
Aravorn
Deity
Just thought of something, assuming Henrik wants to do a new one the 5th player should be BY INVITATION ONLY.
I am VERY TIRED of pick up games that never finish.
If Henrik bows out, then we need at least TWO, but again it should be by invitation only.
First guy that comes to mind is SAS, lets ask him (If we do indeed do another game.)
I am VERY TIRED of pick up games that never finish.
If Henrik bows out, then we need at least TWO, but again it should be by invitation only.
First guy that comes to mind is SAS, lets ask him (If we do indeed do another game.)
yaroslav
Emperor
Steve, I agree with the "invitation" thing. I like this scen too much to see it wasted by a non-reliable player.
I don't mind to play with another civ or even a tournament :b:
I don't mind to play with another civ or even a tournament :b:
Patient English
Designer
Agreed, both of you. The Hapsburgs and Independents can be AI-controlled, as now.
Aravorn
Deity
I was really thinking about a Tourney as well a few months ago, BUT guys I just don't want to do it UNLESS we have 5 reliable players AND everyone signs there name in blood to complete the Tourney.
The Boney Tourney has been great except that we can't keep 7 RELIABLE players. For that reason, Im losing interest, Im not going to quit or anything but that has really spoiled my enjoyment of the Tourney.
I DO NOT WANT that to happen here.
Ok Ive named my conditions, the rest shall be HISTORY......
The Boney Tourney has been great except that we can't keep 7 RELIABLE players. For that reason, Im losing interest, Im not going to quit or anything but that has really spoiled my enjoyment of the Tourney.
I DO NOT WANT that to happen here.
Ok Ive named my conditions, the rest shall be HISTORY......
Patient English
Designer
I agree with all of that. A Tournament would be very interesting, as everybody gets to be the weak and the strong....
If we are to go for that, we need 5 super-reliable chaps, and I vote we abandon this playtest game. So Henrik, are you in or not?
Steve, Yaro and me are already in and committed. I agree SAS is a good suggestion. Like to ask him?
The scoring system needs to be worked out, so have a think on that. I think number of cities, overall population, science discoveries and "reputation" all ought to count for something.
I will post Colonies 4.2 to every one who is "in" on Friday night. We can all get used to it for a few days, then start the tournament. One point: Colonies 4.2 is optimized for Single Player. To make an MP game work properly, the unhappiness factor needs to be increased (since we will be playing at "King" level), and optionally we can continue to use the Sapper unit in place of the Garrison, and/or allow Fortresses to be constructed.
Opinions?.
If we are to go for that, we need 5 super-reliable chaps, and I vote we abandon this playtest game. So Henrik, are you in or not?
Steve, Yaro and me are already in and committed. I agree SAS is a good suggestion. Like to ask him?
The scoring system needs to be worked out, so have a think on that. I think number of cities, overall population, science discoveries and "reputation" all ought to count for something.
I will post Colonies 4.2 to every one who is "in" on Friday night. We can all get used to it for a few days, then start the tournament. One point: Colonies 4.2 is optimized for Single Player. To make an MP game work properly, the unhappiness factor needs to be increased (since we will be playing at "King" level), and optionally we can continue to use the Sapper unit in place of the Garrison, and/or allow Fortresses to be constructed.
Opinions?.
Aravorn
Deity
Ill talk to SAS in the next couple of days, comments on the game later but I will say right now, I LOVE sappers. I would hate to see them go.
yaroslav
Emperor
Guys, before we start the tournament I need to say two things:
1) I really want to play it
2) There is a minor chance that I'll be granted with a work outside my city (even outside of Spain). If I got this job, I probably will quit the tournament while moving and getting a new computer & ISP. But fear not, that is unlikely as the standard time to get a job is around 6 month rigth now and I've been only 2 months seeking for one...
Well, about the sce:
I'd love to play 4.2 rigth now - to get used to the scen. I also think that 5 players are enoguh... And about sas I don't know him IIRC, but I trust Steve
And about scoring.... I'll think a formula and post it here
1) I really want to play it
2) There is a minor chance that I'll be granted with a work outside my city (even outside of Spain). If I got this job, I probably will quit the tournament while moving and getting a new computer & ISP. But fear not, that is unlikely as the standard time to get a job is around 6 month rigth now and I've been only 2 months seeking for one...
Well, about the sce:
I'd love to play 4.2 rigth now - to get used to the scen. I also think that 5 players are enoguh... And about sas I don't know him IIRC, but I trust Steve
And about scoring.... I'll think a formula and post it here
Patient English
Designer
OK Sappers are in 
Five players are enough, if SAS and Henrik are in that is OK.
Ideas for scoring welcomed....
Five players are enough, if SAS and Henrik are in that is OK.
Ideas for scoring welcomed....
Henrik
Emperor
I'm in
yaroslav
Emperor
What about this formula:
Fci*(Ci_end/Ci_beg)+Fsci*(Sci_end/Sci_beg)+Fpop*(Pop_end/Pop_beg)+Frep*(Rep_end/Rep_beg)
where
Fci=Factor cities
Fsci=Factor science
Frep=Facto reputation
Fpop=Factor populatio
Ci_end=Cities at the end of the game
Ci_beg=Cities at the start of the game
Sci_end=Science at the end of the game
Sci_beg=Science at the beginning of the game
Pop_end=Poulation at the end of the game
Pop_beg=Populatio to start with
Rep_end=Reputation at the end of the game
Rep_beg=Reputation at the beginning of the game
Using divisions we recognize that capturing a city is much harder for the small empires (Dutach, England) that for the biggest empires.
About factors, I suggest 1.5 to cities and science and 1 for population and reputation; I believe that cities and science influence a lot more the game than the pop. and reputation.
Fci*(Ci_end/Ci_beg)+Fsci*(Sci_end/Sci_beg)+Fpop*(Pop_end/Pop_beg)+Frep*(Rep_end/Rep_beg)
where
Fci=Factor cities
Fsci=Factor science
Frep=Facto reputation
Fpop=Factor populatio
Ci_end=Cities at the end of the game
Ci_beg=Cities at the start of the game
Sci_end=Science at the end of the game
Sci_beg=Science at the beginning of the game
Pop_end=Poulation at the end of the game
Pop_beg=Populatio to start with
Rep_end=Reputation at the end of the game
Rep_beg=Reputation at the beginning of the game
Using divisions we recognize that capturing a city is much harder for the small empires (Dutach, England) that for the biggest empires.
About factors, I suggest 1.5 to cities and science and 1 for population and reputation; I believe that cities and science influence a lot more the game than the pop. and reputation.
Henrik
Emperor
Isn't some cities worth more than others though?
This way nations that gets lots of colonists (not necesarily those that start with more cities) will have a scoring advantage as they can found more cities before the limit is reached...
Not really sure how one would do it differently though without going in to check for specific cities which would be too much work methinks.
I do think we should count wonders owned (compared to the starting amount) and conquered capitals as well.
I don't think reputation should be counted at all as the AI can mess this up without the player doing a thing...
This way nations that gets lots of colonists (not necesarily those that start with more cities) will have a scoring advantage as they can found more cities before the limit is reached...
Not really sure how one would do it differently though without going in to check for specific cities which would be too much work methinks.
I do think we should count wonders owned (compared to the starting amount) and conquered capitals as well.
I don't think reputation should be counted at all as the AI can mess this up without the player doing a thing...
Aravorn
Deity
Henrik! Glad you are in!
We can start slow so it wont affect your homework too much.
I think whatever we do it should be relatively simple, and should reward someone who just wants to play the game.
Im not really crazy about a lot of micromanaging.
I just want to be rewarded for say: Kicking Johns Arse because of his unjustified war against England in this PBEM
We can start slow so it wont affect your homework too much.
I think whatever we do it should be relatively simple, and should reward someone who just wants to play the game.
Im not really crazy about a lot of micromanaging.
I just want to be rewarded for say: Kicking Johns Arse because of his unjustified war against England in this PBEM
Patient English
Designer
Hah! And you suggested the war (for the most admirable of playtesting reasons, admittedly) yourself! AND you started it early!!
Anyway, we don't want to make the score too skewed towards the big boys or those favoured with most colonists. How about something like this:
1) Main concept: the VPs are awarded every 10 years, so we have checkpoints to see how we are doing, and a winner even if we finish early. They accumulate through the decades...
2) One set of VPs are awarded for the INCREASE in the PERCENTAGE number (as Yaro has said) of cities, over and above the starting number at the beginning of the decade (or game). Important to decide which, as it will affect the way you found cities.
3) More VPs are awarded for each tech discovered during the decade, and DOUBLE for any tech held that is not held by another Civ (the White highlighted ones). Discourages too much tech whoring.
4) A small additional VP total awarded for Reputation, as this is important and relevant to warmongering behaviour (and means the Diplo Wonder is useful), but not too much, as the AI can affect it randomly, as Henrik says.
5) Some VPs for each Wonder built THAT IS STILL ACTIVE at the decade end. Obsolete ones don't count, so there is an incentive to go for the techs that obsolete your rivals' ones...
6) A big bonus for eliminating a Civ, or being a member of the Coalition that achieves it. (This one's in for Steve, when he wipes me out in every game..)
Reactions, please. I'll fine-tune the details tonight of those ideas we like.
yaroslav
Emperor
Originally posted by Patient English
1) Main concept: the VPs are awarded every 10 years, so we have checkpoints to see how we are doing, and a winner even if we finish early. They accumulate through the decades...
Ok with that
I agree with that also
Ok with them... May slow the tech trading however.
What about a 0.5*(current_rep-former_rep). This way, is current_rep is worse than former_rep, that number will be negative...
Nope. I think that these techs are already very attractive.
6) A big bonus for eliminating a Civ, or being a member of the Coalition that achieves it. (This one's in for Steve, when he wipes me out in every game..)
Reactions, please. I'll fine-tune the details tonight of those ideas we like.
I'm not very sure of that... Let's say that I cripple the French power but I'm very generous and let him live. Then English come and destroy the few remaining cities... Should England take the Bonus???
Patient English
Designer
Yaro,
Thanks for the feedback.
(1) and (2), we are agreed.
(3) - that is the point. I want to slow tech swapping and encourage individual achievement.
(4) Something like that, yes.
(5) Fair point. What do the rest of you think. Wonders should be rewarded in VPs as well as in-game in my view, although not too much.
(6) I see your point - but why be generous?!
Thanks for the feedback.
(1) and (2), we are agreed.
(3) - that is the point. I want to slow tech swapping and encourage individual achievement.
(4) Something like that, yes.
(5) Fair point. What do the rest of you think. Wonders should be rewarded in VPs as well as in-game in my view, although not too much.
(6) I see your point - but why be generous?!
