Colonies

[Framesticker]

So I was playing the Hannibal Nobles' Club game (Monarch/Normal Conquest, Rifle/Cannon which upgrade to Infantry/Artillery are amazingly effective) and I've come across the Colony button while going about my advisors. Now, I've heard about that option before but never really got around to using it. I just conquered Cyrus's and Caesar's continent (they had some island cities so I let them capitulate). In regular situation I would've made these cities useful to me, but since they were overseas maitenance was killing me (and State Property wouldn't be around for a pretty long time). I decided to give them independence and got Isabella. She was obviously Friendly (due to +10 "You gave us independence!"), but as I was going about destroying all the civs on the map I didn't really figure she'd helped me a lot in it.

So my question to you: how do you go about deciding whether to grant independence to a colony or not? Do you it often, or not at all? What benefits does granting independence (as opposed to not granting independence) has? I've never used this feature before, so I'm completely unsure as to what's the general status in CFC this is.

Thanks

 

[Ghpstage]

A typical colony made from a few cities captured from an enemy or settled on some smaller far away continent is useless at best, and possibly harmful in a normal game, after all they start with all your techs and will trade them away.

It does have a few uses when you get more used to game mechanics though,

• Vassals are forced to vote the same as you in AP/UN, even for victory. If you have enough votes to prevent the victory resolution being available forming a colony can drop you below this threshold.
• Colonies spawn 2 of your best defenders (under the AIs control) when formed, handy if your struggling to hold an island and drastically need more troops.
• Abusing AI 'magic rifles'. Meaning giving them obsolete troops that they can upgrade for next to nothing.

Maintenance problems can most often be solved with the Forbidden Palace or State Property. There are probably some more but just about everything useful about colonies is based on AI bonuses and vote mechanics.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Where exactly is this colony button?

 

[CerberusAlpha]

I think colonies are great. that free defender thing can be a lifesaver.
and yes, overseas maintenance is brutal and this takes care of it super fast.
plus, like all vassals, you can tell them what to research, which gets real useful towards the end of the game.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Never done the colonies thing cause I've never seen this mythical colony button you all talk about.

What are the criteria for making a colony? Is it just like a vassal. I've seen the computer do it but never thought much about it.

 

[ABHPage]

Personally I'd rather keep control of the whole empire. Usually before state property I use the cities on the other continent to build wealth so it offsets the maintenance cost, and quickly beeline state property. Then when I can switch to it I basically have the equivalent of 2 civs under my control, which usually nets me other vassals due to my power skyrocketing once I get them all off wealth and start building troops everywhere.

The trick ( at least for me) has been to build forges, levees, factories, lumbermills, railroads, well anything that increases production in the oversea cities. Keep them small before state property and exploit your high hammer squares in the bfc, even if the cities stay small. Then when you have built all hammer boosting city improvements, switch to building wealth until you get SP. That way the continent won't drain your resources. I won't be any use in the immediate, but once you hit SP and switch all those cities back to growth it effectively double the size of your empire, thus research, commerce, unit production, etc.

 

[Racsoviale]

For you guys who cant find the colony button.

Go to your domestic advisor(where you can see all your cities, and what they produce in money and science etc.)

In one of the lower corners there should be a button, which allows you to create colonies(provided you have a minimum of two cities on another continent)

 

[Draknith]

The concept of colonies is fantastic. Of course as with most concepts in CIV IV, to really utilize the function requires proper handling. Depending upon how you play colonies could be a God send, or a horrible waste of time and energy.

I'll start out with some cons I have found, and then share some pros:

Cons:
If you're one of those, "must control every square, and dominante the world, you probably won't find a reason to grant independence. The reason for this is clear. When you grant independence you are no longer in control of that territory.

If you're looking to run a more centrally controlled economy vs the free market system, colonies will not be that beneficial for you.

Pros:
If you're a free market guy, colonies can be your best friend. Here's why, in my opinion.

As your empire expands so does the costs associated with running it. By establishing colonies you're in effect allowing the local populace to develop their own system, and pay for it. Of course your empire's cities will have a bit more in maitenance, but it's neglegable. As the head nation in your alliance, you can reap the resources your colonies make, and by developing their economy you can actually turn around and sell products back to them at substantial rates.

If you have corps in the later game you can really leverage your colonies. Take this example.

You have three colonies on seperate landmasses. Each have the necessary resources to harbor a corp in thier cities. By spreading your corps you make additional funds. Although the colonies are paying maintenance for those corps, they are recieving the bonus for having those corps. Also, since they are YOUR colonies, you need not worry about having mining inc in their cities, which enables them to build things faster. So in the end your colonies are stronger, richer, and more productive, and you earn a fat paycheck each turn for the services rendered.

Now the last thing I want to mention is that I generally build up a colony before I grant it independence. I will send over the necessary workers to build up the infrastructure. I will build the base tier buildings so that the cities can stand on their own two feet. Finnally I will start shipping on a regular basis the needed material, to keep the colony secure while it works at building itself up.

If you work with your colonies, to make them strong productive nations. You will not only increase the standing of yourself, but make it less expensive to run your empire, and increase the strength of your alliance against a foreign foe. The +24 relation bonus doesn't hurt either, esspecially if you can get Monty or Shaka as your colonies' leader,

 

[Deathstar]

after all they start with all your techs and will trade them away.

Is there a way to force them to not trade with other civilizations?

 

[Draknith]

In the games where I have heavily used colonies, I never really saw a tech diffusion that ended up coming back to haunt me. Usually by the time my colonies are up and running, I have already moved forward far enough on the tech tree to make what they know somewhat obsolete.

To help answer your question a bit; I believe that if you set the game up to allow NO tech brokering, the AI would be unable to purchase techs from your vassal, since you "gave" them the techs. Not completly sure though if this is right.

 

[Sonereal]

To help answer your question a bit; I believe that if you set the game up to allow NO tech brokering, the AI would be unable to purchase techs from your vassal, since you "gave" them the techs. Not completly sure though if this is right.

I'm pretty sure that's correct. Of course, any tech the AI researches it will trade but if your colony is outresearching you anyway, you've messed somewhere pretty bad.

I find that the best way for me to avoid using colonies was to simply switch to State Property but in some mods, vassals (colonies) can be interesting to have around. Especially with a mod where you disable Open Borders and Map Trading.

Nevertheless, I'm not finding myself needing to create colonies much in vanilla BTS unless I have a corporation I really want to play with.

 

[r_rolo1]

Is there a way to force them to not trade with other civilizations?

Play with No tech trades option Besides that, nothing minimally effective.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Colonies would be better if:

1. The AI was not terrible at using them
2. It didn't screw visible and hidden diplo to hell
3. They didn't trade techs to the point of accruing negative modifiers or ruining monopolies
4. The player couldn't use the cities more effectively.

I've used them in some rare scenarios, but they are generally unimpressive and can cause you to be a war target outright.