Colossus early?

[SquishyBall]

Hi folks,
I'm new to playing Civ3, tho I'm an experienced Civ2 player... Thus far, I'm up to playing on Monarch level. Does any one find it hard to be the first to the Colossus?

I find it hard to pump out as many settlers as I'd like from my starting city, and still get it going on the Colossus early (after Temple - Warrior- Settler - Granary - Settler). At that point, if I switch to Colossus I'll build it first. But if I wait a bit and pump out, say, another settler & a worker or two, then someone else beats me to the Colossus. So is it worth it to slow down your growth a bit to get that?

I figure if you're up against a science/culture-race like the Bab's, then it's terrible to let them build that, cuz it'll just escalate their race.

 

[NeonInfusion]

actually, no. it's sorta easy, considering i like having AC on most of the time. i'm usually a non-agressive person in the beginning, not settling too fast, no early wars [sometimes], stuff like that. So I usually sacrifice growth to get the Colossus.

 

[barron of ideas]

There are a lot of good strategies in the game, if one dominated, interest would tend to fall off and we would all be playing other games now. However, most of the time one does not tie up the capital with wonder building during the expansion period. If you have a really great settler factory, and a military factory and worker farm you might find the capital is the best place to build wonders, but often it is not on the coast, required for the Colossus, or has something a lot more important to do. As Sirian used to say (and probably stilll does) if it can wait, it should wait.

Building the Colossus normally can wait. Depends what level you are playing, and the size of the world, and neighbors, and what terrain you get and lots of other issues. Maybe the short answer is that it isn't that hard to be first to the Collosus if you put a priority on it over being in a winning or surviving position. Most of us figure there is something else we would like. Even the wonder builders put more emphasis on the pyramids or the great library, or on archipelago maps, the great lighthouse.

Why do you want to build the Colossus? How does it fit in your approach to the game? I suspect you get more commerce over time with a few extra well developed cities than from any wonder.

Tempo is so important in most games (well, maybe not on Chieftan) if you get out-expanded you need a lot of skill to survive. You can win with just one city, I saw a report where the Mongols won without ever building military units, we have a very ingenious community here, almost anything is possible in the right situation.

By and large most players would prefer the Babs as neighbors to a lot of other more militarily agressive AIs. Maybe not if you are going for a culture victory, but its a long game, you can take them out later, if you have to. I recommend you play your game and if the Colosus fits your strategy, build it, but if it isn't necessary, don't quit the game you are playing as a loss if you don't get it. Most players here don't care if they get it or not. I'd much rather have the Great Library.

 

[budweiser]

I think you will find that the first thing the ai does is expand until the map is full, then they start to build stuff. They expands and build faster as the difficulty level goes up. On Monarch they are 10% faster than you. This means that you can most likey get away with building an early wonder if you play it right and sacrifice some expansion.

And welcome to CFC.

 

[SquishyBall]

Thanks! Seems like a helpful forum...

I guess, the main reason for wanting to get it quickly is to prevent another scientific nation from getting it. Plus, I know the babs start out 2 wonders as early as they can... (Pyramids and Colossus) so if I build one out from under them, they'll waste a lot of production, since they can't just switch to the other.

So I guess it's more for want of keeping that extra income out of thier hands, being my biggest threat typically, than for need of it myself...

That's a good point tho... in return for not building it, I could get 3 more cities started in the same time... and that's a big trade-off.

 

[Shirastro]

As barron said i dont know your strats but i think colossus is kinda crapy compared to other early wonders. Also i think its better to first build some other things like grannary and temple (after building all the setlers you need), couse than your city will be big (becouse of grannary) and happy (becouse of temple) and therefor more productive, and even if you start building it a bit later in a game, you will be the one who will get it.
But as i said colossus is just not worth all this truble

 

[Arathorn]

The value of the Colossus greatly depends on map size and settings.

On a huge pangea with minimal water, it's of extremely limited value.
On a tiny, watery archipelago, it's quite possible that the Colossus will provide as much income as the rest of your civilization combined. Its value is comparable or superior to GL or ToE and actually greater than Pyramids or Hoover.

The thing to keep in mind, though, is that ALL wonders are optional. It's pretty straight-forward to win without getting any of them.

Of course, it's also possible to get almost any single wonder you desire on any difficulty level, but it's only occasionally worth the opportunity cost (what you could have done otherwise) to do so.

Arathorn

 

[barron of ideas]

I agree with Arathorn. Or is it the other way arround? One of us will be useful as a scapegoat if our ideas are wrong.

Build the Colossus if you want to. You might lose, but on the other hand, you might lose anyway, and you will be true to your own vision of what should be done.

If your question is what do most people do, most people don't make a priority of the Colossus compared to early expansion.

There may be one more issue, some civilizations who build it get an instant golden age, perhaps at a time they don't expect it, or particularly want it. The English suffer from this problem, I think.

 

[YNCS]

Originally posted by SquishyBall
Plus, I know the babs start out 2 wonders as early as they can... (Pyramids and Colossus) so if I build one out from under them, they'll waste a lot of production, since they can't just switch to the other.

Especially at higher difficulty levels, be very careful about this strategy. You might take Colossus out from under them and they switch to Great Library or Oracle. Which would you rather have or rather they have?

 

[barron of ideas]

Or they might decide to attack you to take it from you. A surpisingly effective rush with Bowmen is not unknown. They are cheap, and there might be a lot of them, as they don't have to decide whether to build archers for offense and spears for defense.

 

[kb2tvl]

The collosus is nice once you get a bank/university/stock exchange in that city. Also, getting conpernicus and newton's in that city can really boost tech productivity.

That said, I would rather get another city that I can make into a future FP.

 

[Shirastro]

Isn't the colossus renderd obsolete by the the time you get to build all those things?

 

[kb2tvl]

You have to discover flight. Flight is at the end of the industrial age.

 

[Shirastro]

Well i guess i havent made many colossuses in my games
Blah it sux. The money bonus isnt that great. I think you can make more money by building pyramids. You save money couse you dont have to pay for the maintainence and you save time couse you dont have to build granaries...........AND your cities grow faster.
SquishyBall is there any particular reason why you want colossus so badly?

 

[Goldberg23]

The Colossus is great when you start along a coast (Capital City By the sea). It's esp so on deity and if you start along a coast, cos the AI will ususally not have a capital along the coast, so you usually can finish building this wonder over them. I've got this deity game, that has the colossus, Newton and Copernicus all built into my capital city. My science generated from that city is really more than some of my opponents whole civilisation combined, cos I also had bank and Wall street there. Plus, its pretty neat cos during early game, it gives you around 12 more gold per turn at least for a city of size 12, notwithstanding double that during the golden age. Plus, it lasts for a long, long time, as long as no one gets flight. Nevertheless, if your capital city's not along a coast, then don't bother. It's not that attractive if you cannot at least add one of Copernicus or Newton onto it...cheers!

 

[SinisterDeath]

I love the Colossus and I play on Monarch, I usually build it in my second city, the one on the coast.

 

[barron of ideas]

I think, as a latin word ending in us the plural would be Collossi. Perhaps one of our Latin geeks could correct me if I am wrong.

(WRONG? never!, just misinformed.) I do know it isn't quite that simple, there are cases and groups of nouns, some don't change for the plural at all. But in this case I would be willing to bet a small amount (2 cents --where is the cents sign on this computer keyboard?) that it is Colossi.

 

[denyd]

At the higher levels (Emperor & Diety), I normally try to expand to claim as much land as possible before trying for a wonder. I like to have weak neighbors build Colossus, GLit, GLib & Pyramids for me. Then when I've filled up all of my land, I begin assimilating my neighbors.

However, with a 20K City victory goal, I try to have my second city on the coast and start the Colossus right away. It's helpful if you have BW as a starting tech, so you don't have to spend research time/money on it.

 

[trumpeteer]

On the subject of the Colossus, is it just me, or on a world map like Marla Singer's, on Warlord, does it seem like the English in their correct location always seem to get the Colossus? I suppose that not many people can answer me, because it seems like everyone plays on Regent or above...

 

[barron of ideas]

Did I say this before, or is it just deja vu?

I believe if the English build the Colossus, they get an immediate Golden Age. This may or may not be an incentive to build it.